Cataclysm Thread (New Expansion)

[Thuronn]

Hunters no longer having mana, having focus now. Very interesting, never have to use viper again. It will be removed I bet.

Crazy stuff. I'm excited though.

[Meph]

I guess I used the wrong thread.

so, are all instances going to be cross-server now? how will that even work? its not like you can summon someone lol

[Lexa]

Whereas when you play FFXI you're basically forced to learn the lore.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROFLMAO!

No.

I took three characters through all 3 nations, all of CoP, ToAU, and the early WotG, and I still have no fucking clue wtf was going on with anything, happily buttonmashing my way through all that boring, confusing shit. You're not forced to learn a damn thing about lore in FFXI.

[Dezzimal]

I guess I used the wrong thread.

so, are all instances going to be cross-server now? how will that even work? its not like you can summon someone lol

I suppose the group gets made, you zone in the instance and the guys from cross server get ported in to your instance or vice-versa.

[Korietsu]

The whole, lets go back to vanilla wow stats is going to mean one thing for mages. Shitty pigeonholing again. We'll go from red fire to purple fire, and pvp is still going to be in a shitty state.

I don't care who gets what class, I just care that it works, and we move away from the unbelievable RNG bullshit that's my only viable DPS. I can do the exact same thing and lose 2k DPS on one fight because I got fucked on RNG.

[Rivero]

The whole, lets go back to vanilla wow stats is going to mean one thing for mages. Shitty pigeonholing again. We'll go from red fire to purple fire, and pvp is still going to be in a shitty state.

I don't care who gets what class, I just care that it works, and we move away from the unbelievable RNG bullshit that's my only viable DPS. I can do the exact same thing and lose 2k DPS on one fight because I got fucked on RNG.

Vanilla WoW actually had the best PvP and by a long-shot at that. Unfortunately WoW won't ever go back to it's original style so I wouldn't worry about it anyways.

[Plow]

Vanilla WoW actually had the best PvP and by a long-shot at that.

Yeah man, your opponent pressing 1 button with /cast trinket 1 /cast trinket 2 /cast arcane power /cast ap /cast pyro and killing you instantly from full was awesome.


Almost as awesome as whirlwind crits doing over half life to someone in the exact same quality gear as you that you weren't even targeting.


TBC, late season one and the first half of season 2 were the absolute prime of pvp in WoW.

[Korietsu]

Yeah man, your opponent pressing 1 button with /cast trinket 1 /cast trinket 2 /cast arcane power /cast ap /cast pyro and killing you instantly from full was awesome.


Almost as awesome as whirlwind crits doing over half life to someone in the exact same quality gear as you that you weren't even targeting.


TBC, late season one and the first half of season 2 were the absolute prime of pvp in WoW.

Gonna QFT S2, and Early S3.

[Korietsu]

Vanilla WoW actually had the best PvP and by a long-shot at that. Unfortunately WoW won't ever go back to it's original style so I wouldn't worry about it anyways.

Yeah, cause ToEP/ZHC + AP Pyro was so fun. Resilience needed to die a painful death in LK, and be reborn into something useful. Try killing a healer solo as a mage, you can't do it with even the best amount of skill and coordination because our damage output is so low in PvP.

[Plow]

So I think I figured out how the Garrosh thing happens.

The decision will have to be made, and he'll challenge Thrall to a duel to decide, which Thrall will accept, and lose. And so Garrosh becomes Warchief.

[Dezzimal]

Try killing a healer solo as a mage

I've heard this argument about "Mages can't kill healers" way too much in my own guild and it is pretty tired, and there are two easy to understand reasons why this is not the case.

1. This would be considered 1v1, and WoW is not balanced around that.
2. If you can blow up a PvP geared/specced healer, then what is the point of being a healer in an arena where a mage can just solo you? There are a few classes that can wear down a healer, but none are able to outright solo one on their own.

Rawr I'm a mage I should be able to kill whatever I look at menacingly is not a valid counter-argument.

[Eaglestrike]

So I think I figured out how the Garrosh thing happens.

The decision will have to be made, and he'll challenge Thrall to a duel to decide, which Thrall will accept, and lose. And so Garrosh becomes Warchief.

I don't really think that fits. The only thing I've seen stated about this at Blizzcon is "what do you think the worlds mightiest shaman is going to do?" which to me means that Thrall is going to step up to a BIGGER challenge than leading the horde and try to save the entire world. I don't think it works for him to lose a duel and go off to be a big badass saving the world, lol.

If anything, Garrosh will duel Cairne or Saurfang for warchief when Thrall leaves.

In a way, the lore fits. Thrall will be even more of a badass than we make him out to be and he'll be able to ascend to levels of win like Tirion since he's no longer affiliated with one faction. But I just don't like what it does to the Horde, lol.

And I agree with Dezzimal about PvPing. If you're in a 2v2 and you as a mage can solo the healer on the other side...what chance would that healer have against two DPS? And you can't say the partner can help...you can CC the partner pretty damn well in most cases.

[Plow]

I don't really think that fits. The only thing I've seen stated about this at Blizzcon is "what do you think the worlds mightiest shaman is going to do?" which to me means that Thrall is going to step up to a BIGGER challenge than leading the horde and try to save the entire world. I don't think it works for him to lose a duel and go off to be a big badass saving the world, lol.

If anything, Garrosh will duel Cairne or Saurfang for warchief when Thrall leaves.

In a way, the lore fits. Thrall will be even more of a badass than we make him out to be and he'll be able to ascend to levels of win like Tirion since he's no longer affiliated with one faction. But I just don't like what it does to the Horde, lol.

And I agree with Dezzimal about PvPing. If you're in a 2v2 and you as a mage can solo the healer on the other side...what chance would that healer have against two DPS? And you can't say the partner can help...you can CC the partner pretty damn well in most cases.

Isn't Garrosh "ahead" in the fight when they duel in RoV at start of LK?

[Eaglestrike]

Isn't Garrosh "ahead" in the fight when they duel in RoV at start of LK?

Yeah, but Thrall can heal.

[Korietsu]

I've heard this argument about "Mages can't kill healers" way too much in my own guild and it is pretty tired, and there are two easy to understand reasons why this is not the case.

1. This would be considered 1v1, and WoW is not balanced around that.
2. If you can blow up a PvP geared/specced healer, then what is the point of being a healer in an arena where a mage can just solo you? There are a few classes that can wear down a healer, but none are able to outright solo one on their own.

Rawr I'm a mage I should be able to kill whatever I look at menacingly is not a valid counter-argument.

But not being able to put down enough burst with extremely coordinated play to down a healer is unacceptable. I can play a perfect match against a healer, and not kill them, only draw the match to the timelimit end and win by damage done not by a kill, which again is unacceptable.

Healers should be very hard to kill 1v1, not invincible.

[altwight]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROFLMAO!

No.

I took three characters through all 3 nations, all of CoP, ToAU, and the early WotG, and I still have no fucking clue wtf was going on with anything, happily buttonmashing my way through all that boring, confusing shit. You're not forced to learn a damn thing about lore in FFXI.

Guess I should have said non fail FFXI players. Or atleast ones with half a brain.

[Dezzimal]

Healers should be very hard to kill 1v1, not invincible.

If the healer makes a significant mistake you can put them down, but if they're playing it correctly you shouldn't be able to kill them without help. Your role in pvp is not entirely based upon how hard you can burst, your class has a significant number of other tools which if used properly can turn a 3v3 into a 3v2 for an extended period of time.

[Korietsu]

If the healer makes a significant mistake you can put them down, but if they're playing it correctly you shouldn't be able to kill them without help.

And that's the problem. Its incredibly hard to force a healer to make a "significant" mistake, they also can recover from mistakes. As a mage, you can't afford to make even the slightest mistake in arenas, much less in a situation where its just you and the enemy healer remaining after losing your partner and finishing off theirs.

Case in point, orangemarmalade played a perfect game with the burstiest arcane spec to date, and with flawless play and several mistakes by the healer, couldn't kill them and had to win by attrition. It should take one excellent DPS to kill a healer. It should take two average DPS to kill a healer. But you shouldn't need two people interrupting/snaring/mortal striking and blowing all of their offensive cooldowns to burst down a healer, because they can't force them to OOM, with one of the DPS dying to reflective damage and the other with no remaining resources and no more CD's.

[Arvin]

Guess I should have said non fail FFXI players. Or atleast ones with half a brain.

sorry but this is a WoW discussion we leave a fail game like FF11 out of these parts of the forums.

and for the record, FF11 story was awful and i enter spammed through it, and I was hardly a fail player

[Gulkeeva]

And that's the problem. Its incredibly hard to force a healer to make a "significant" mistake, they also can recover from mistakes. As a mage, you can't afford to make even the slightest mistake in arenas, much less in a situation where its just you and the enemy healer remaining after losing your partner and finishing off theirs.

Case in point, orangemarmalade played a perfect game with the burstiest arcane spec to date, and with flawless play and several mistakes by the healer, couldn't kill them and had to win by attrition. It should take one excellent DPS to kill a healer. It should take two average DPS to kill a healer. But you shouldn't need two people interrupting/snaring/mortal striking and blowing all of their offensive cooldowns to burst down a healer, because they can't force them to OOM, with one of the DPS dying to reflective damage and the other with no remaining resources and no more CD's.

I've only been having this issue with druids mostly... prot/holy pally still take some effort. Priest is easy enough.

I'm wearing all out pve gear, and spamming the shit with explosive shot, traps (snake especially for mind numbing on ones that try to jump all over me) I crit about 50% chance on 800+ resilience people, and explosive crits about 3.2K on a druid.

I keep up aimed shots mortal strike effect up constantly.. it is HARD AS HELL to kill a druid that has 800+ resilience and 25,000ish hp unless you just go balls to the wall catch him off guard with no hots up... and even then he could survive. unless he tried to use cyclone... can feign that easily and keep firing and he's basically suicided.

I don't even see how in pvp, you could kill one in arena in something like 2v2 seeing as they can hot up forever, unless your a warlock or something that just felhound dispel spam + afflictions motal strike effect for a good long while. I'm watching 3-4 people in pvp gear chasing down a druid and his hp isn't even moving, and he can be at 300 mana hoping around for awhile.

Its even more funny how a holy/prot pally or resto druid can effectively solo people in pvp gear, with holy shock/moonfire while keeping themselves well off healed.

Atleast disc priests lost god mode in 3.2... still takes effort to 1vs1 kill. But I be damned trying to kill a 25,000ish HP resto driud..., won't run out of MP, even if you viper/tranq/arcane torrent their bigger heals and wyvern sting some heals, use snakes, proc LnL they cna still live pretty well 1vs1 for a good 4-5min of damage totaling into the 100,000+ ranges just on them 1vs1.

I've had pvp geared hunters hit me with explosive... it does near nothing... 5-7K per explosive if it all crits (about 3K if it doesn't), how the hell does that kill someone actually wearing resilience...?