Weapon Question for MNK in Salvage

[Cream Soda]

Looking at a handful of my parses, the only ones that are 60/40 are the pts I use Faith Baghs. For all the destroyers parses, can't find a single one w/ 40% ws dmg.

[Starr]

Guys, keep in mind the OP is asking for Salvage and mainly Chariots at that, I doubt he cares about his Accuracy on Greater Colibri. Mdkuser, don't you parse all salvages? Why not post your TP/WS % from one?

[Cream Soda]

Here's a parse of each chariot that I did w/o using focus, acc food, or receiving madrigal, just to test my base acc so I can choose which gear to use for focus down and which for focus up. (This is prior to my obtaining cuchulain as well).

http://i30.tinypic.com/fxbj0w.jpg

The above statement though was rly to explain the poor acc on the parses (no focus at all).

3 of the 4 chariots.

26429 total dmg, 7111 ws dmg

26861 total dmg, 7,629 ws dmg

25,447 total dmg, 7,797 ws dmg

All of which in the 25-30%ish range for ws DMG

[ringthree]

I am just curious, but do people have a big problem with losing hate on chariots?

[Arthars]

hades > destroyers in salvage

[Gergall]

Now, I'm not sure w/ critical hit maths, but are you suggesting 6% crits is going to yield less than 2.6% increase in total damage?

The post is about tanking chariots. Higher acc = higher counter rate = easier to tank.

[pchan]

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...ss-summary.jpg

SSR boss parse, mdkuser with destroyers and pizza, pchan with Hades sainti +1.

Why do I do more damage ?

- destroyers are indeed more dot (15 500 vs 14 000)
- Hades do indeed more ws damage (7 500 vs 8000)
- destro monk doesn't counter


even though I didn't use pizza (my acc is shit, 86% vs 94% to destro monk), I keep up easily and even out damage him thanks to counter mainly.

Also notice that melee damage is 60% of my total.

Another boss (ZR )

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...ann/Zrboss.jpg

me hades, him destroyers

[Cream Soda]

That has more to do w/ player vs player rather than just the weapon. For all we know, you're just flat better than your co-tank.

Lol at destroyers not countering >.>

I've cotanked w/ hades mnk using destroyers, keeping hate the majority of the time.

[pchan]

That has more to do w/ player vs player rather than just the weapon. For all we know, you're just flat better than your co-tank.

Lol at destroyers not countering >.>

I've cotanked w/ hades mnk using destroyers, keeping hate the majority of the time.

No it's not, the destroyer monk has better gear than me : Ancient torque, cuchulain's, hollow, toreadorsx2 vs my faith torque merman, pimp iota/blood and foragers. Put a monk with the exact same gear and play style as yourself, but have him use Hades Sainti. The mob sees him as doing more damage than lol 6% critical hit, therefore he mainly attack him.

[PeaceNLove]

No it's not, the destroyer monk has better gear than me : Ancient torque, cuchulain's, hollow, toreadorsx2 vs my faith torque merman, pimp iota/blood and foragers. Put a monk with the exact same gear and play style as yourself, but have him use Hades Sainti. The mob sees him as doing more damage than lol 6% critical hit, therefore he mainly attack him.

Once you're both at hate cap, it doesn't matter who is doing more damage. The chariot will attack whoever recaps enmity first, i.e. who hit it last just before the chariot attacks. This happens like 1-2 minutes into any extended melee fight. Technically, the destroyer MNK should see more attacks come his way than the hades MNK by virtue of a lower delay, though the delays are so similar it won't make much of a difference.

To answer the OP: From my experience, no Hades aren't worth it. You can use destroyers and be perfectly fine, as I have throughout my whole Salvage experience. Sure, they might be marginally better for bosses and tanking in general, but hopefully you'll reach a point where everything in Salvage is such a breeze that you'll probably wonder why you even made this thread. I only come MNK to AR now, its SAM to everything else with a WAR cotank just to speed things up.

[pchan]

Once you're both at hate cap, it doesn't matter who is doing more damage. The chariot will attack whoever recaps enmity first, i.e. who hit it last just before the chariot attacks. This happens like 1-2 minutes into any extended melee fight. Technically, the destroyer MNK should see more attacks come his way than the hades MNK by virtue of a lower delay, though the delays are so similar it won't make much of a difference.

You only "cap" CE after 10k damage, that's assuming you don't take damage, which is unlikely, hence why people discuss "tanking".

[Streak]

Some groups I've worked with insist on avoiding asuran fists on the final chariots as an extra measure to reduce TP gain on them. Just how much TP does asuran give in comparison with ascetic's fury?

Once you have penance, monk's roll and auspice I realize it makes a lot less difference, but we don't always have them available.

As for weapons, I've always owned Hades for my pup and just recently finished off monk... and so far I've always done bosses with destroyers. My gear/merits are a bit better than average so I have enough problem sharing with co-tanks... the extra emnity and accuracy may hurt that even more.

On the other hands, I should probably considering loaning them to my co-tanks lol.

[ringthree]

Pretty sure mobs don't get TP from extra hits of a WS.

And by pretty sure, I mean I am positive unless there has been some kind stunning revelation.

[pchan]

Some groups I've worked with insist on avoiding asuran fists on the final chariots as an extra measure to reduce TP gain on them. Just how much TP does asuran give in comparison with ascetic's fury?

According to wiki, only the first hit would give tp (since H2H is always "special" I assume only the first 2 hits). So ascetic's fury and asuran fist give the same.

[Fridell]

My 2 Cents:
I use Destroyers full-time up till boss floor, and it happens I use it on last floor also depending (using Subs for 60 minutes then a Pizza which lasts over to 2nd run of the day).
I like Hades for the Chariots, since I don't have full Usu, I like the extra ACC it gives, the Blow & Enmity is just semi-invisible bonus. When I get Full Usu I doubt I will use Hades at all for Salvage.

Some groups I've worked with insist on avoiding asuran fists on the final chariots as an extra measure to reduce TP gain on them. Just how much TP does asuran give in comparison with ascetic's fury?

Once you have penance, monk's roll and auspice I realize it makes a lot less difference, but we don't always have them available.
lol.

Penance / Monk Roll AND Auspice is way overkill. We spam Asuran Fists on Chariots, with Penenace / Auspice active, including a 3rd melee on them most of the time. With Penance / Auspice, there is no reason to not use Asuran Fists (even without them use it if gear is proper and you can do damage with it lol, I see so many MNKs do better Howling then Asuran these days.) plus having 3 DDs on it. If not 100% of the time, most of the time.

Conclusion, those who you met who insist on avoiding Asuran must be shot.

[Scorp]

Personally I use Destroyer's on the way up and Hades+1 on the chariots.

I'd normally rather get to the boss quick and kill it smoothly than rush the boss, which means for me the subtle blow and enmity help control the fight a little more than destroyers would.

Though I do accept the extra hate isn't really important after the first weaponskills and I do have a very similarly geared co tank.

That said, get N head since it will be a huge bonus to your other jobs ws dmg.

[Neosutra]

It has been said a dozen times before but:

Destroyers > Hades for DoT (no, Hades is not the same as Destroyers for DoT. 7% crit on BOTH hands blows a 3-4% hit rate increase out of the water. And to be clear, as with anything else in this game, "blows out of the water" is a loose term).

I used Hades for a long time in salvage, but the plain truth comes that "just killing shit faster" tends to be the best approach, and you shouldnt have any problem keeping hate from your mages (and if your cotanks cant take hate, get better cotanks). I swap to Hades on bosses for the extra subtle blow and evasion, as that is the only place I like to be a bit more careful and manage my damage taken.

If you have any money issues, dont get a hades. If you have all the rest of your gear, get hades.

[Yugl]

Complaining about 600k and you're doing Salvage? What? If 600k is going to help you for the one event where you get your *best* TP set (I think it is for MNK right?), then why not get them?

Edit: 730k

[Neosutra]

Complaining about 600k and you're doing Salvage? What? If 600k is going to help you for the one event where you get your *best* TP set (I think it is for MNK right?), then why not get them?

Edit: 730k

Because it was pointed out no less than 12 times that they arent the best TP weapons for mnk and should be used as a situational replacement?

[Yugl]

Because it was pointed out no less than 12 times that they arent the best TP weapons for mnk and should be used as a situational replacement?

Yet, you also stated that you use them for bosses no?

Edit: Unless that's what you meant by "Situational Replacement". In which case, if you're going to use them on bosses, I would say it's a worth while temporary investment.