Actual Relic information thread?

[Plow]

When people mention how close X weapon is compared to its relic counterpart, Ragnarok is genuinely one of the weakest boosts overall, by far. Naglering and Algol both are only 1 less base dmg, with Naglering having a 20 ATT boost over it and both of these have an easy 6Hit build. (GL getting realisitic 6hit on Rag). Not going to scoff at the 16 ACC advantage that Rag has, but there is a good reason this weapon is known as a gigantic waste of currency.

For diehard GS DRK's I'm sure they enjoy it, but thats one of the most expensive side/down grades in the game.

A 7 hit build with rag doesn't require any extra STP on top of /sam and rajas, and adds about 80 total delay vs. a 6 hit build with naglering.

I'm not saying that makes it great or anything, just saying don't discount the fact that the difference in time to full tp between 7 hit rag and 6 hit nagle is really small, and obviously you're going to get a significant boost in dot via an extra swing in pretty close to the same amount of time. Add in 2.5x procs and it's pretty spiffy.


Amazing, no, an upgrade to any other GS, period, most definitely.

[Nameless]

No, you will need 30 STP for Ragnarok to be 7 hit build. The worst part of this weapon is the delay, if it was 444 it is ok, but 431 just makes it that much harder.

431 x 7 = 3017
501 x 6 = 3006

Even then, Naglering is still faster. I love Ragnarok, but if the critical hit rate after scourge isn't anything to write home about, it is at best a subduer +1 sadly.

[Gtype954]

When people mention how close X weapon is compared to its relic counterpart, Ragnarok is genuinely one of the weakest boosts overall, by far. Naglering and Algol both are only 1 less base dmg, with Naglering having a 20 ATT boost over it and both of these have an easy 6Hit build. (GL getting realisitic 6hit on Rag). Not going to scoff at the 16 ACC advantage that Rag has, but there is a good reason this weapon is known as a gigantic waste of currency.

For diehard GS DRK's I'm sure they enjoy it, but thats one of the most expensive side/down grades in the game.

Thats good to know. I didn't know much about greatsword or its best non-relic counterpart. I just loved seeing people play greatsword DRKs way back in the day. 1 Base dmg lower is a slap in the face from SE considering how hard these weapons are to obtain. Possible the hardest quest in video game history that I know of. The relics should of had a +10 base DMG difference from a non-relic.
Or they should have made all super crits go off 100% of the time on crit hits and 5% of the time on weaponskills to make up for only having +1 base DMG.

The Shenlong's base dmg is barely lower and the delay is considerably lower plus it has STR, double attack, and +10 acc. It is sadly possible, that these might outparse relic spharai on mamjool Lurker or other high eva thf mobs?

I know AV is not killable anymore and even then has a horrible drop rate on a great katana (possibly 10%) and that PW isn't killed everyday. But making weapons situationally better then relic is a slap in the face I would say.

[Plow]

No, you will need 30 STP for Ragnarok to be 7 hit build. The worst part of this weapon is the delay, if it was 444 it is ok, but 431 just makes it that much harder.

431 x 7 = 3017
501 x 6 = 3006

Even then, Naglering is still faster. I love Ragnarok, but if the critical hit rate after scourge isn't anything to write home about, it is at best a subduer +1 sadly.

Uh... am I doing my math wrong? I'm coming up with ~19.5 stp, so 20 covers it. Nagle meanwhile requires 23, which means either white tathlum or some combination of 2/3 of ecphoria/chiv/attila's.

And while it's 80 delay longer between ws (6/5 to figure that, not 7/6), you get an extra melee hit for every ws inside that delay.

[Argettio]

Uh... am I doing my math wrong? I'm coming up with ~19.5 stp, so 20 covers it. Nagle meanwhile requires 23, which means either white tathlum or some combination of 2/3 of ecphoria/chiv/attila's.

And while it's 80 delay longer between ws (6/5 to figure that, not 7/6), you get an extra melee hit for every ws inside that delay.

11% base hit

100/7 = 14.2

14.2/11= 1.2987....

So you need 30 sTP (or 15 from gear and /SAM).

[Nameless]

And no, GS isn't a thing in the past. The relic might not be that big of an upgrade, but when facing harder stuff, GS is still your best friend cuz multi ws just won't cut it on those. And I am not talking about /thf.

[Drace]

Yea not knocking GS in general, the whole point is comparing relic vs. the next best weapon you can get. The difference in hit build (and gear to get there) is a pretty big dent in Ragnarok Plow. When its all said and done, you are looking at getting to 100 TP faster, having an extra 20 ATT vs. 1 Base damage advantage for something like Naglering vs. the ~16 ACC advantage (depending on what you give up for 7hit build) and the 2.5 procs and crit boost. When accuracy isn't an issue, Rag is a probably a side-grade, when you can really make use of the extra acc, it will be the best in its class by a slim margin imo.

I would love to see some boosts for weapons like this to really separate them in their class as a lot of other weapons are able to do, but as it stands now, you are gaining very little by investing in a Ragnarok compared to other easily obtainable GS's.

Edit: To compare pretty standard 6hit Naglering vs. 7hit Rag: (assuming all other gear is the same outside of STP adjustments)
23 STP for Naglering 6hit: /SAM 15, Rajas 5, Rose Strap 4
30 STP for Ragnarok 7hit: /SAM 15, Rajas 5, Rose Strap 4, Aurum Cuirass 7

Which pretty much boils down to dropping E. Body for Rag Build - losing 2 STR, 2 DEX, 15 ACC by having to use Aurum.
Naglering Advantage: 6 Hit Build, 21-22 extra ATT, 2 extra STR, 0/+1 ACC, 2 extra DEX
Ragnarok Advantage: 1 Base Dmg, 2.5 Proc, x% extra crit hits.

So you've pretty much just paid ~180-200M for 2.5 Procs and some extra crit hits while getting to 100 TP slower and doing less WS dmg overall.

[Nameless]

The problem with Ragnarok is that SE sees it as having 431 delay, so they don't want to give it a base damage like 90 or something. In their opinion of this game, Dps still means alot, and Ragnarok does have a somewhat high Dps. However, with all the TP adjustment that boosts high delay weapon, Ragnarok was never adjusted by SE to the current state of game.

The 16 acc compare to Naglering will probably be neglected by having to sacrifice acc for hit build. In order to reach 30 stp, /sam, rajas, brutal, rose, which are generally considered as no sacrifice will total up to 25 stp. Chiv chain + e ring + white tathlum will leave it 2 short still, not to mention that you will probably want 31 stp so you can WS without any restriction (need 24 stp only for ws to keep 6 hit). So this means that you either need to eat carbonara, or you need to use the like of aurum cuirass or askar korazon. Both way you will be sacrificing acc.

So the only difference is really the critical hit rate and the 2x proc.

[Drace]

Yea Rag owners should be going for Aurum Cuirass at any cost, w/o that the TP build and WS build would end up being so poor it would easily fall well behind a decent 6hit GS build.

[Kirschy]

I parsed a ~90 min Nyzul Bird session last night to calculate my relic proc rate. 88 Relic procs in 990 hits which comes out to be ~8.38%. (~1/12)

[Neosutra]

I parsed a ~90 min Nyzul Bird session last night to calculate my relic proc rate. 88 Relic procs in 990 hits which comes out to be ~8.38%. (~1/12)

1000 hits leaves you with about a 2~% error give or take so could really be between 5-10% proc rate.

[PeaceNLove]

I parsed a ~90 min Nyzul Bird session last night to calculate my relic proc rate. 88 Relic procs in 990 hits which comes out to be ~8.38%. (~1/12)

88/990 = ~8.89%? Almost exactly 91/1024 if it follow that kind of system.

[Rasantath]

Gungnir:
2x damage proc about 10% as observed by other 2h relic owners.
Defense weakening is lower than Angon, but it can overwrites it.
It can also overwrite itself, renewing the timer. Lasts 30 seconds.

Geirskogul shock spikes are potent, damage-wise, dealing 10-20 damage. Stun proc about 20% of the time against Dynamis MNK mobs, not sure what the calculations are but it usually takes between 1-5 attacks by the hundred fisting MNK on me to be stunned. Usually end up being in the red.. or dead. Geirskogul in general is just not worth using unless you're /THF.

would you mind clarifying which overwrites which? its kind of ambiguous written this way.

[Nameless]

WS aftermath def down can override angon. I am not sure if angon can override aftermath, but my guess is that it can.

[Rhealana]

You can Angon a mob, and Gungnir can proc a defense down and overwrite it.

Gungnir's DEF down is a bit less than Angon's.

Anyways, just spent 2+ hours in Xarcabard trying to get them effing Gothic Gauntlets to match the Sabatons I got earlier; so decided to parse it.

49 2x damage procs. 430 normal damage procs. 479 total attacks.

~10.22%

Guess Nevex is choking on his words.

[Ophannus]

Geirskogul should have been a normal Polearm WS. Dragoons really lack a decent WS with a high punching power for high defense mobs. Other melee have Slugwinder/Steel Cyclone/Mandalic Stab/Spinning Slash/Spiral Hell but Wheeling Thrust hardly cuts it with its lol 1.75x modifier and no attack bonus. Geir has a sweet 3.00 modifier but its on our relic -_-;

[Nameless]

Wheeling is really not that bad on high def mobs. I have generally had good experience with it considering I am used to the numbers put up by spinning slash.

It is 50% str modifier compare to Geirskogul's 60% agi, which is a huge advantage right there. Partial ignore def serves as attack bonus, so in the end wheeling isn't all that weak.

There is once I did 18XX wheeling thrust on Armed Gear while it is at around 20%. Pretty impressive consider I had no buff whatsoever, just a 300% DA wheeling thrust while /sam. I have never come close to that number ever since....

[Neosutra]

Wheeling is really not that bad on high def mobs. I have generally have good experience with it considering I am used to the numbers put up by spinning slash.

It is 50% str modifier compare to Geirskogul's 60% agi, which is a huge advantage right there. Partial ignore def serves as attack bonus, so in the end wheeling isn't all that weak.

There is once I did 18XX wheeling thrust on Armed Gear while it is at around 20%. Pretty impressive consider I had no buff whatsoever, just a 300% DA wheeling thrust while /sam. I have never come close to that number ever since....

Well, to be fair, Armed Gears loses his damage resistance during the last 25% and is naturally weak to piercing since he is a gear..

[Nameless]

it is still pretty hard to do that consider none of the rngs came close to that number under the same condition with their WSs, hardly breaking 1k if any.

And to be real honest with you, that was freakish.... I still can't understand how that happened... Just saying Wheeling at least have some potential.

[orson]

It seems really pointless to be posting all this info in the thread if the OP isn't compiling it. I think someone offered to do so if the OP doesn't want to. Just seems like a waste to post all this stuff just for it to get lost among a bunch of posts.