Actual Relic information thread?

[Shinryuu]

I'd simply assume retaliated hits, like counters, can crit.

[Masamune]

I'd simply assume retaliated hits, like counters, can crit.

i can confirm this with 10+ parses as WAR/dnc during pDIF testing i'm currently doing.
i even use their frequency charts to get more samples since they follow perfectly same pDIFs as normal and crit'd hits.

Tough i 'm interested to know if relic proc Xtimes can occur on a retaliated hit.

[BerenTebogo]

i can confirm this with 10+ parses as WAR/dnc during pDIF testing i'm currently doing.
i even use their frequency charts to get more samples since they follow perfectly same pDIFs as normal and crit'd hits.

Tough i 'm interested to know if relic proc Xtimes can occur on a retaliated hit.

Assuming ability to crit accounts for larger retaliation numbers occasionally, but by same logic if retaliation can crit and double proc that means there has to exist the possibility for 500-600 damage retaliation #'s, if not higher for stuff like salvage/limbus.

Am I saying with absolute certainty that it cannot proc on retaliation? Nope, but I have yet to see any 500-600 damage retaliations from myself or any crazy 1k+ retaliations in salvage or limbus or etc (salvage bhaflau I feel would be very noticeable since I hit retaliation, sit on hasso only, and voke every time it's up - I think I'd notice a 1k+ retaliate on chigger)

[Therin]

At the risk of sounding like a complete tool since I just finished my Apocalypse yesterday. . .

I once read a post somewhere around here about Catastrophe not having an innate accuracy bonus similar to other single-hit weaponskills. But, I don't know if that was tested and proved or just a theory. Does anyone else recall?

Trying to optimize my Catastrophe set for particular situations and wondering if I should even worry about losing practically all of my +accuracy gear in my WS set, or if it might actually make a difference.

*EDIT* Just looking at the numbers I'm thinking it was horseshit. My Catastrophe set is scraping by on like 375 accuracy so if it didn't have an accuracy bonus, I should notice a lot more misses than I do. That's my guess, at least.

[azagarth]

I cannot say for 100% fact... but I parsed my last meripo with a really awesome drk. He used a full attack set for cata (no acc pretty much) and had 94.27% acc. So I think its safe to assume cata capps acc like other's. 181/11

[Therin]

I cannot say for 100% fact... but I parsed my last meripo with a really awesome drk. He used a full attack set for cata (no acc pretty much) and had 94.27% acc. So I think its safe to assume cata capps acc like other's. 181/11

94.27% WS accuracy?

That's good to hear, if so.

[Kirschy]

I've tested Catastrophe and it does indeed have an accuracy bonus. I had like ~45% melee accuracy and ~90% WS accuracy. (~800 melee hits, ~100 WS). Further testing would be needed to nail down the exact bonus, but it's definitely there.

I've had some crap luck with Catastrophe and even parsed low 90s in ws acc, but it's just bad luck. I got MKD helm like 2 months ago, and it hasn't changed my WS acc.

Failure has tested Kaiten, and it too receives an acc boost~

[BerenTebogo]

At the risk of sounding like a complete tool since I just finished my Apocalypse yesterday. . .

I once read a post somewhere around here about Catastrophe not having an innate accuracy bonus similar to other single-hit weaponskills. But, I don't know if that was tested and proved or just a theory. Does anyone else recall?

Trying to optimize my Catastrophe set for particular situations and wondering if I should even worry about losing practically all of my +accuracy gear in my WS set, or if it might actually make a difference.

*EDIT* Just looking at the numbers I'm thinking it was horseshit. My Catastrophe set is scraping by on like 375 accuracy so if it didn't have an accuracy bonus, I should notice a lot more misses than I do. That's my guess, at least.

I keep MT somewhere around 377 as well and rely on the ACC bonus. Seems to work fine, it's just horrid to notice the misses when you're used to 3hit WS.

[Therin]

I keep MT somewhere around 377 as well and rely on the ACC bonus. Seems to work fine, it's just horrid to notice the misses when you're used to 3hit WS.

Especially when you're sitting at 500 HP and could really use the drained 300 or 400 HP that Catastrophe would give you, but your WS misses and you die to a TP move that did 700 right after!

[Abandon]

Once upon a time, I knew a drk named Unctgtg. I have never, and I mean never, witnessed so may wiffed Catastrophes. It was glorious.

[bsphil]

I knew a drk named Unctgtg.

I feel bad for you already.

Also, you guys are still working out the acc bonus on the first hit of a WS? Thought BG of all places would get it by now.

[FailureMidgard]

I feel bad for you already.

Also, you guys are still working out the acc bonus on the first hit of a WS? Thought BG of all places would get it by now.

Oh ya, and all 1 hit WSes get a huge pDIF boost too...oh wait, that's all non-relic WSes isn't it. Forgot about that one. There isn't a ton of easy to find relic information out there, anywhere, so there's nothing wrong with newer relics asking questions...

If anyone cares about the Kaiten numbers:

Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Failure               42582   53.16 %    293/223   56.78 %    29/387   116.65     74   118/612  230.20   25.26 %

Weaponskill Damage
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg
Failure                     37514    46.84 %      65/1    98.48 %     189/784   577.14
 - Tachi: Kaiten            37514   100.00 %      65/1    98.48 %     189/784   577.14

No gearswaps, don't recall exact gear but generally haste/pdt, and blinding potions.

[Masamune]

That parse is on which mob and lvl?

Also could you provide from the "Offense details" tab the normal+crits frequencies on each particular mob+lvl combination please ? (don't even bother posting numbers when filter is set on "ALL mobs").

Also, on "Buffs by time" tab, check if you got significant time% under a particular buff to be able to report corresponding numbers assuming that buff were up 100% of the time. Classic example: i've seen poeple kindly give me their parses which looked to have potential interesting infos, until i verify on that tab the buffs they had... Hasso+ 56,73% and Seigan+ 43.27%... needless to say half the corresponding hits becomes unexploitable (i should say each belongs to a different pDIF analysis)... other problem is the combination of that with another asumption with other buff up X% of the time like Berserk, which KParser can't do for now (doable technically but obscene in terms of display). In other words, please check if can make asumption buffs were up 100% of the time (easiest being of course 0 buff at all XD).

So can maybe have a bit more rigorous analysis on Relic procs, pDIF "boost" and Kaiten.

Btw no gear swaps were a great idea /clap, too bad you don't remember how much str & attack you used ;;

[Zirk]

Can you also include info from the "Extra Attacks" tab, I'm going to assume that with such a low melee accuracy %, many of the melee hits that actually landed were zanshin hits, which benefited from zanshins accuracy bonus, so your actual melee accuracy % would have been lower than what that parse actually states.

This is just for purposes of determining how much of an accuracy boost kaiten/maybe all single hit weapon skills actually gets, I initially sorta arbitrarily thought it was +50 accuracy, but being able to overcome a blind pot that well makes me think it could be anywhere like +200-300 accuracy.

Also to the above poster, I think you missed Failure's sarcasm, they are not claiming to have any kind of a hidden pDIF boost on Kaiten.

[Vodou]

Can you also include info from the "Extra Attacks" tab, I'm going to assume that with such a low melee accuracy %, many of the melee hits that actually landed were zanshin hits, which benefited from zanshins accuracy bonus, so your actual melee accuracy % would have been lower than what that parse actually states.

This is just for purposes of determining how much of an accuracy boost kaiten/maybe all single hit weapon skills actually gets, I initially sorta arbitrarily thought it was +50 accuracy, but being able to overcome a blind pot that well makes me think it could be anywhere like +200-300 accuracy.

Also to the above poster, I think you missed Failure's sarcasm, they are not claiming to have any kind of a hidden pDIF boost on Kaiten.

I'm not sure how (or why) you eyeballed +200-300, but it was documented from tests at approximately +100 quite a while ago (and +50 has been debunked for a couple years at least.)

Failure's post is clearly supporting/enhancing the initial findings and in no way does it indicate anything over +100.

[Zirk]

Well I have to guess cause I don't have information about what mob Failure was fighting. If in their pdt gear their melee accuracy would have been just around the cap without blind pot, then Kaiten's accuracy bonus is making up for the 256 accuracy loss. If their accuracy without blind pot was way over the cap, then Kaiten is making up for less accuracy, maybe 100-200. If their accuracy was not capped before blind pot, then Kaiten's bonus is over 256.

[Byrthnoth]

Instinctively, I'd say:
If Blinding Potion is -256 Acc, 20% is the floor, and he parsed 56% melee accuracy, then he must have been way over cap before potion-ing up because +35 Acc would only raise you to ~37% Acc on Zanshin'ed hits or 27.5% Acc overall.

But if Blinding Potions weren't on all the time (only last 3 minutes) then who knows.

Either way, Kaiten (like any other first hit) has at least a +90 Acc bonus, and potentially more.

[Kirschy]

Failure and I both used crabs in kuftal and only tested for about ~30-45 minutes. Hasso/Blind pots were on full time. It was just a simple/basic test to see if the accuracy bonus was there or not.

[Vodou]

Instinctively, I'd say:
If Blinding Potion is -256 Acc, 20% is the floor, and he parsed 56% melee accuracy, then he must have been way over cap before potion-ing up because +35 Acc would only raise you to ~37% Acc on Zanshin'ed hits or 27.5% Acc overall.

But if Blinding Potions weren't on all the time (only last 3 minutes) then who knows.

Either way, Kaiten (like any other first hit) has at least a +90 Acc bonus, and potentially more.

Why do you have 20% as the floor? I've used blind potions while testing things and been able to get land rates below 20% (outside the margin of error.) Maybe I made a mistake in my methods, but I am skeptical.

[Kirschy]

Why do you have 20% as the floor? I've used blind potions while testing things and been able to get land rates below 20% (outside the margin of error.) Maybe I made a mistake in my methods, but I am skeptical.

~20% is the floor for melee acc. I've done various blind pot testing in general. In particular my first Catastrophe testing was done on Steelsheels. I had 25% melee accuracy after ~750 hits, increasing my accuracy by ~+30 I still had 25% melee acc (showing that it was a lower bounded cap.) If you can find a scenario where your melee acc is below 20% for an extended period of time (and parsed), it would be fairly big news.

This also applies to mob acc in most cases. You can't evade over 70-80%~