Avatar (December 18, 2009) ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Saga]

Any child over 5 could have predicted the ending. You shouldn't have to turn your brain off every time you watch an action movie. A decent plot isn't too much to ask for, imo.

Besides, did you not expect people to be extremely critical of the movie after all of the hype?

then people shouldn't hype the living crap out of it, like they always do. something gets hyped up, that something is finally released, and two categories of people spawn from the aftermath: the "calm down and enjoy it for what it is" crowd, and the "this was total shit, i want my money back, i'm trying so hard to be alternative and cool" crowd.

jesus christ, everyone's such a faggot for expecting a 300+ million dollar budget film to have AN ORIGINAL STORY-LINE. "this part is important!. shut up and read my shitty grammar while I reference even shittier South Park episodes.

boo hoo, i want every movie to reinvent the wheel! and south park sucks, just like woody allen, and that other thing that everyone but me finds funny!

[Pooky]

You actually have to hunt down through the addendum material to the movie (it's not in the film itself). When Earth granted RDA monopoly on all extra-solar resources, one of the conditions was that they could NOT use any weapons of mass destruction, nukes, plagues, etc. The missiles are basically the largest ordinance they have.

It kind of shows in the film,

Spoiler: show

when they go to bomb the tree of all souls, you'll notice the "daisycutters" are just pallets of mining explosives. They had to MacGuyver a big bomb because they aren't actually supposed to have any.

You're assuming that after having their collective asses handed to them by alien hippies, they'd return to Earth and just give up. No one went back that knew the truth; they could have said that the blueskins went apeshit and attacked, and the security forces heroically gave their lives to ensure everyone's escape. A story like that would completely throw the rulebook out the window, since we really don't like losing.

This is also assuming that there aren't blackmarket means of getting said WMD's to blow everyone all to treehell. A company that large, with those resources available can't get a fucking nuke? Really? Its not like there was any (shown) Earth oversite, how would they get caught?

As an aside, the whole addendum material shit pisses me off. Sure its Cameron's baby, and he was trying to make the world as "real" and detailed as possible....but this shit is Pocahontas in space, not Dune. Really no need for such background information considering how shallow the plot.

[Sho]

I didn't find it predictable at all. Then again I find anyone who's seen Pochohantas and Ferngully let alone remember it, very suspicious.

Fuck that noise, Fern Gully ftw.

[Xno Kappa]

then people shouldn't hype the living crap out of it, like they always do. something gets hyped up, that something is finally released, and two categories of people spawn from the aftermath: the "calm down and enjoy it for what it is" crowd, and the "this was total shit, i want my money back, i'm trying so hard to be alternative and cool" crowd.



boo hoo, i want every movie to reinvent the wheel! and south park sucks, just like woody allen, and that other thing that everyone but me finds funny!

Are you trolling?

Everyone already said the movie was enjoyable. The fact remains though that the plot was stupid and predictable. You make up the very most annoying category of people, the "defends every aspect of the movie" crowd. Seriously, fuck outta here with your nonsense.

[USMC]

Yeah, and that would be interesting.

You see "showing compassion" - I see "doing what is necessary". The only reason that "showing compassion" works is because the film exists in a world where the humans for some unknown reason wouldn't completely fucking annihilate the Navi in retribution.

If you want the Navi to play out this "noble compassionate savage" archtype to that extent, fine - let them burn. It would be a much more interesting end than "love prevails" and "mother nature is more powerful than greed", since neither of those things are, ya know, true.

I completely agree with this. When my friend and I saw the ending we were like "lol wow, 2,000 bluecatmonkeys beat a couple hundred(?) Marines, what are they going to to do when the rest come?" The entire plot just seemed so shallow, Cameron didn't even try to establish any gray areas at all. He portrayed the bluecatmonkeys as a peaceful forgiving ultimately benevolent society, whereas he makes the humans out to be those "greedy corporate bastards." They're 100% good, and we're 100% evil. Yet if planet Earth really is dying then I'm pretty sure the economy would be ten times worse than it is now, so millions of people would be starving and homeless. So ultimately, it's either we take this ore, or else we slowly wither and die as a species. Hell, in that situation I'd be suprised if we really did attempt diplomacy at all.

[kuronosan]

No, he portrayed it exactly how it should be. Greedy heartless jerks get beaten back by peaceful loving society and good triumphs.

Seriously, you don't think that them destroying their home and launching missiles just to get a mineral deposit isn't fucking evil?

I suppose you were one of the guys cheering on the cavalry when they butchered hundreds of women and children so that you could live in Missouri, right?

Fuck sake. Quit over-analyzing the movie. The only fault with the plot is that it hasn't been finished yet. Cameron already said he's going to do sequels.

Lastly, there's nothing wrong with the plot as it is - they could come back in the sequel to get the ore if they really wanted it. Ribisi's character wasn't heartless, he was manipulated and pressured to launching an assault with "superior firepower" but with "minimum casualty" because it would look bad to the rest of the planet (you know, the ones who aren't greedy) if a civilization was massacred just to make a few billion dollars.

There's much more to the story than you're giving it credit for, even if the plot was shaky.

[USMC]

No, he portrayed it exactly how it should be. Greedy heartless jerks get beaten back by peaceful loving society and good triumphs.

Seriously, you don't think that them destroying their home and launching missiles just to get a mineral deposit isn't fucking evil?

I suppose you were one of the guys cheering on the cavalry when they butchered hundreds of women and children so that you could live in Missouri, right?

Fuck sake. Quit over-analyzing the movie. The only fault with the plot is that it hasn't been finished yet. Cameron already said he's going to do sequels.

Lastly, there's nothing wrong with the plot as it is - they could come back in the sequel to get the ore if they really wanted it. Ribisi's character wasn't heartless, he was manipulated and pressured to launching an assault with "superior firepower" but with "minimum casualty" because it would look bad to the rest of the planet (you know, the ones who aren't greedy) if a civilization was massacred just to make a few billion dollars.

There's much more to the story than you're giving it credit for, even if the plot was shaky.

Hah, Missouri. No need to try to throw insults, we're only talking about a movie now. I'm saying that it was fucked up that we killed all of them. I just thought it was pretty shallow because in the movie he portrays our only reason for being there to make a quick buck, when in fact, according to his own addendum, we were there to try to revive our own dying civilization. I also thought it was shallow to portray the aliens as some sort of perfect, peace-loving godly civilization, it just didn't seem realistic because no civilization is perfect. Yeah yeah, I know realism in a movie about 12 foot tall aliens, but he could have at least made then more than one-dimensional character. It just seems like he left a lot out of the movie that could have created much more of a deeper moral dilemma than the cut and dry, black and white experience that he gave us. I would have much preferred a movie who's overall theme was "Should we destroy other civilizations to preserve our own?", instead of "hey brah, corporations are bad."

[Eaglestrike]

I finally figured out what bothers me about this movie. I understood part of it while I was watching it - after the big tree gets destroyed and the Na'vi scatters, the main guy goes to ...lead a revolt and retake their homeland.

This is where it was kinda lost on me.

He's an ex-marine. He knows the power of the human military. He knows that agent orange (or [insert alien defoliation toxin]) exists. He's aware of nuclear weapons.

Yet he still leads the blue people on a quest to eliminate their human aggressors.

The fact that he is (temporarily, at least) successful, seems a little silly, but whatever - the humans can't overcome the entire ecosystem with their current arsenal. Fine, I'll suspend my disbelief up to this point.

But then...instead of wiping out the entire colony and ensuring that no humans survive...they...let the humans go?

Seems like a fucking terrible tactical decision to me.

I could get on board with this film if one of two things happened (preferably the latter) - the Navi beat back the assault, siege and destroy the company base, and slaughter everyone inside.

-or-

The Navi force them to leave the planet, as happens in the movie. Then a few months/years later, the company returns, nukes the entire forest, decimating the Navi and the rest of the ecosystem, land in radioactive-shielded mining equipment, and make their money.

The idea that the humans have supposedly learned their lesson and leave trillions of dollars of ore on this planet, especially after losing a -very- winnable war, is simply fucking stupid, and it makes me angry as a viewer. That's just not how this shit works - the imperialist allegory fails at this point.

Having this film not end in full-scale slaughter, one way or another, is far, far too easy. If the Navi are stupid enough to let the humans live, they deserve their nuke. And if the main marine character knows this (as he should) - he could set up a much more interesting moral quandary.

Actually, I think a full-scale slaughter would invoke the wrath of humans more than what they did. It's known to humans that there are humanoid beings on that planet and some humans were attempting peaceful relations with them, if it were to come out that the only attacks on humans were after the humans burned the homes of these people, there wouldn't be a good reason to lead an attack of retribution.

And did all the humans stay on the planet? Wouldn't some of the scientists and such in Grace's line of thinking have returned to Earth to tell the story? And they even showed the business leader seemingly have some form of remorse about how things went down, so maybe he'd use the military leader guy as a scapegoat, since he did push the military option.

And if that was the idea, to paint the military/company/whatever/etc. as the aggressors and bad guys it could result in some political drama back on Earth.

[aduidarnenye]

I read that there were going to be two sequels. I rather took that as an "Empire Strikes Back" and a "Return of the Jedi" style story arc. I think the blue guys are going to have it very bad (all that human retribution) in the second movie but then somehow magically come out on top (possibly with Ewoks as allies) in the third.

Perhaps the blue guys will go to Earth and revive the Ewya-earth-god thingy there that has died cause of humans.

[Lordshin]

Hah, Missouri. No need to try to throw insults, we're only talking about a movie now. I'm saying that it was fucked up that we killed all of them. I just thought it was pretty shallow because in the movie he portrays our only reason for being there to make a quick buck, when in fact, according to his own addendum, we were there to try to revive our own dying civilization. I also thought it was shallow to portray the aliens as some sort of perfect, peace-loving godly civilization, it just didn't seem realistic because no civilization is perfect. Yeah yeah, I know realism in a movie about 12 foot tall aliens, but he could have at least made then more than one-dimensional character. It just seems like he left a lot out of the movie that could have created much more of a deeper moral dilemma than the cut and dry, black and white experience that he gave us. I would have much preferred a movie who's overall theme was "Should we destroy other civilizations to preserve our own?", instead of "hey brah, corporations are bad."

To me it felt like the movie went from "corporations are bad" to "Preserving Civilization." That was probably the point of saying that Earth was essentially dead.
imo the message of the movie was: "Should we kill off another Race to save our own?"

I thought the movie was amazing, i didn't think the story was too predictable, i mean the overall story was but the things in between weren't. Not to mention the 3-d aspect made the world look much more realistic and beautiful.


also, just because the Human Race is not perfect doesn't mean other races on different planets will be just like us. For all we know there could be a Peace-loving race somewhere out there...
I bet if we had tendril like connections to every lifeform on the planet, we probably wouldnt be too far off from the Na'vi in their peaceful ways

[Kaylia]

To me it felt like the movie went from "corporations are bad" to "Preserving Civilization." That was probably the point of saying that Earth was essentially dead.
imo the message of the movie was: "Should we kill off another Race to save our own?"

I thought the movie was amazing, i didn't think the story was too predictable, i mean the overall story was but the things in between weren't. Not to mention the 3-d aspect made the world look much more realistic and beautiful.


also, just because the Human Race is not perfect doesn't mean other races on different planets will be just like us. For all we know there could be a Peace-loving race somewhere out there...
I bet if we had tendril like connections to every lifeform on the planet, we probably wouldnt be too far off from the Na'vi in their peaceful ways

That's how I felt about the movie.


I saw it a few days ago and don't understand all the hate. It was beautiful visually, and the story was solid. Simple sure, but solid. Nearly everything was covered one way or the other, and the plot makes sense in overall. I couple nitpick some details here and there, but what's the point...I can do that about every freaking movies.


As for being predictable..what the hell? Movies like this dont need plot twist. 2-3 hours is too short to introduce another story arc, without shoving it down your throat. They spent 1 hour introducing us to the setting, 1 hour on character developpment and another hour on the war. I don't think any part was too long, and nearly everything had a purpose.

[EternityEnd]

To me it felt like the movie went from "corporations are bad" to "Preserving Civilization." That was probably the point of saying that Earth was essentially dead.
imo the message of the movie was: "Should we kill off another Race to save our own?"

I thought the movie was amazing, i didn't think the story was too predictable, i mean the overall story was but the things in between weren't. Not to mention the 3-d aspect made the world look much more realistic and beautiful.


also, just because the Human Race is not perfect doesn't mean other races on different planets will be just like us. For all we know there could be a Peace-loving race somewhere out there...
I bet if we had tendril like connections to every lifeform on the planet, we probably wouldnt be too far off from the Na'vi in their peaceful ways

This. I loved the movie. People need to get it through their heads that movies aren't 900 page books; there's only so much that can go into 3 hours. As stated by Kaylia, I thought they paced the story very well.

People will complain and shit on anything nowadays-- even if a movie came out that passed all their absurd standards, they would still bitch. I thought Avatar's story and setting were positively enchanting, and the visuals were brilliant.

[USMC]

Although I didn't really feel that same progression in the movie, I do have to concede that I hyped it up to be more than it was. The movie's visuals were obviously it's biggest attracter and rightfully so. I probably shouldn't have expected too much story from it.

I guess I just wanted more substance to go with the style but oh well, I have sequels to look forward to.

[Kaylia]

I guess I just wanted more substance to go with the style but oh well, I have sequels to look forward to.

What is this thing you call "substance"?

Something deep and profound that change your view of the world? Something artsy? Something so rich in lore the story get lost in the context?

[Heavencloud]

Finally got around to seeing this today, definitely the most visually pleasing movie I've ever seen. Wasn't too impressed with the 3D aspect of it though, thought they could've done more with it.

Worth the $10.50 though, unlike most movies.

[Myrrh_Quetz]

The big problem I'm seeing with 3D is that the screen is too small and it cuts off the 3D ruining it. We need like a dome theater for it to fully work.

[Aerides]

Went yesterday saw at Imax A++ would watch again.

Hadn't seen the trailers, or commercials, or read this thread before going so I had only a limited exposure to pre-set expectations, but yeah of course you knew where this was going very early on.

And who cares? Hell of a fun movie, beautiful of course, drew me in very quickly and held my attention the whole time. Not many movies do that, for even 90 mins.

The 3d wasn't gimicky, and almost seemed under-used in some parts. Will get this on Bluray when it comes out.

[Yeargdribble]

The movie was way over-hyped and I was tired of Cameron blowing his own horn constantly. By the time I rolled around I didn't give a shit. Out of sheer curiosity (from a technology perspective) my wife and I went to see it with fairly low expectations.

My mind was pretty much blown. It wasn't long in that I didn't give a shit about the technology behind rendering it. I was just watching a purely enjoyable movie. I don't care if it was Ferngully meets Dances with Wolves on an alien planet.... it was damned enjoyable. It was more of an experience than a movie.

A lot of people really want to make their home theater pimped out for movies and I've never given a shit. Usually I see a movie and move on with my life. I don't care how good the effects are. I don't need 7.1 and a 72" screen to enjoy it in my living room....

...but this is the first movie that makes me sad that what I'll see in my living room probably in the next decade will never match what this is like to watch on a huge screen in 3D.

[Ryko]

The colonel made me audibly crack up a number of times, easily the best part of that movie.

[Silenka]

The colonel made me audibly crack up a number of times, easily the best part of that movie.

Not the blue alien cat chick thing? :<

I liked the colonel too, he was pretty amusing.