Multi-hit WS accuracy testing

[Thorny]

Max posting anecdotal shit and not producing the parses for his alleged tests, new and exciting. That said, very interesting information in OP and more power to the people who do actual tests and present data for us to interpret =o

[Raen Ryong]

Edit.. again.. does duel wield effect TP return on WS?

Return per hit is the same as the melee hit (reduced delay/2 being the basis); you also gain an extra hit returning melee hit TP.

[Starr]

Silence, dog, I have data which is easily reproduced by anyone who wishes to examine it, which fits the tests others have shown. It is simply a supporting example without better evidence.

Go play at being awesome elsewhere.

Bad troll is bad.


Also gimp annoying noob.

[Max™]

Max posting anecdotal shit and not producing the parses for his alleged tests, new and exciting. That said, very interesting information in OP and more power to the people who do actual tests and present data for us to interpret =o

Yes yes, Thorny bitching over nothing since the difference between a third party program which records the chatlog/tp returns and my marks on a notebook is trivial, new and exciting.

Nothing else worth responding to here.

[Starr]

Yes yes, Thorny bitching over nothing since the difference between a third party program which records the chatlog/tp returns and my marks on a notebook is trivial, new and exciting.

Nothing else worth responding to here.

http://www.brighterscribe.com/images/QuillScroll.jpg
crit, no crit, crit
Yeah whatever, you talked shit to me asking for parses and whatever and I always provided, now here you are running away from my requests and getting offensive because you can't handle it.

[Cream Soda]

Yes yes, Thorny bitching over nothing since the difference between a third party program which records the chatlog/tp returns and my marks on a notebook is trivial, new and exciting.

Nothing else worth responding to here.

Third party program? The game has 0 to do w/ ffxi. You could parse ffxi on a totally different computer than the one you are playing on.

[mallister]

max plays on PS2, can't parse. i can though. how do you want to set it up, what do you want on it?

[Starr]

First we want you go go to West Ronfaure and use Raging Rush at 100% TP or as close as possible on Hares 200 times and record the damage of every hit and post them. You must be at the same TP % for every hit and you must obviously wear the same gear, no buffs or food are required.

[Max™]

http://www.brighterscribe.com/images/QuillScroll.jpg
crit, no crit, crit
Yeah whatever, you talked shit to me asking for parses and whatever and I always provided, now here you are running away from my requests and getting offensive because you can't handle it.

Wait wait, I asked for parses?

I asked for some for some outlandish claims, maybe.

I am not making an outlandish claim, I'm posting that my own testing which was unfortunately on PS2 had shown results corresponding to the other testing posted.

The JP fast blade tests came out around the same time, producing the exact same numbers I got, so either I guessed, or I actually did the test and the gorgets work as we said.

[Max™]

Third party program? The game has 0 to do w/ ffxi. You could parse ffxi on a totally different computer than the one you are playing on.

Molly answered my point, I can't parse.

I can do the same thing a parse does though, which is record chatlog, tp returns, etc.

I posted them, I can go dig into my notebooks and find the exact page and post an SS if you want, it might not be as "legit" as a parsed example, but it's real testing which, key point, agrees with accepted testing, strengthening the overall case.

[pchan]

Summary: pchan is wrong.

I'm not wrong as I didn't deny gorget giving anything, I just wanted to know what the exact amount of accuracy they give. Happy internetz battle.

[chiyio]

I still think we need a larger sample size than 100 Guillotines

Robber Crabs is that way, see you in a couple days.
Oh, whats that, you dont want to spend a collective 200 hours getting "a sufficient sample size"? Then dont bitch at what is offered as a present sample size.

[Starr]

Hmm next time can you write stuff in a software program like word or excel so you can print screen and post it here for us? Rather than; "I wrote it in a notepad, my data means I'm right but you can't see it". Even though that wouldn't prove you didn't just make it all up but it would allow constructive critisism.

[Masamune]

I'm about to start one parse for crit% @ 100%TP for RR, just gotta find a setup leading to exactly 100%TP (thinking about boomerang-ing those worms @ Korroloka, hoping to be out of range of their spells'TP). Might take me several days tough, at a rate of like 50WSs/day until i post here, with methodology used.
Btw such testing topic could be centralized in a dedicated topic like they did already @ this Allak thread Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI (for evisceration), except i find their results not very precise (WSs never done @ exactly 100TP) but the initiative is exactly what should be done for RR crit% @ 100/200/300, and could even be extended to other crit based WSs.

[Mojo]

If you're admitting to using a PS2 for data collection than I wouldn't advise anybody to take the results seriously, especially considering how inappropriately jaded you are against other forum posters (I'm not taking sides either, it's a ridiculous and childish situation to begin with.)

[Nameless]

Yea, a RR test or Drakesbane test would be good.

However, I am more curious on the secondary hits, I know they can critical, but I am not sure if they receive the critical % bonus from tp if there is one. One test at a time I guess, first to test if there is a bonus, if yes, we will test if it applies to the secondary hits.

[Kirschy]

Molly answered my point, I can't parse.

I can do the same thing a parse does though, which is record chatlog, tp returns, etc.

I posted them, I can go dig into my notebooks and find the exact page and post an SS if you want, it might not be as "legit" as a parsed example, but it's real testing which, key point, agrees with accepted testing, strengthening the overall case.

I have no doubt your parsing is legit. I often parse by hand myself and have notebooks full of data. I don't need to see pics of your data, I am interested in seeing your final resultsafter you tallied them up (and the conditions you used).

I've just never been able to shake the feeling that something is wrong /w the current accepted gorget acc mechanics. Empiricalli I feel its wrong, and I personalli don't use gorgets on any of my multihits. (Although I do have the appropriate gorgets and tried parsing them in real scenarios.) I've been wrong plenty of times, but I won't be able to let it go until I see more evidence one way or the other~

EDIT: I'm interested on the crit testing too. I don't mean to undermine it~

[CDF]

The sometimes cited Fast Blade data showed that the secondary hits of the WS (second hit of Fast Blade and hit from the off-hand weapon), when taken together (316/420), appeared to have a higher hit rate compared to the auto-attack hit rate (the 7186/10381 estimate), and the apparent 5% difference was taken to correspond to +10 accuracy on WS.

You can be skeptical if you want, but many other alleged "knowns" about FFXI mechanics are accepted on much less.

(While the original source is lost, I recall that the test subject was a Mountain Clot in Mount Zhayolm but do not remember if the data was collected over multiple clots

[Siniroth]

Robber Crabs is that way, see you in a couple days.
Oh, whats that, you dont want to spend a collective 200 hours getting "a sufficient sample size"? Then dont bitch at what is offered as a present sample size.

I'm sorry, I missed when I leveled drk to 75, let me remember the account info and password and I'll get started right away, oh wait, I don't have one?

Don't fucking bitch about something I say without something legitimate to back it up, provide for me an account with a 75 drk and I'll GLADLY spend that 200 hours

And why does my post count show up as 1? o_O

[Kirschy]

The sometimes cited Fast Blade data showed that the secondary hits of the WS (second hit of Fast Blade and hit from the off-hand weapon), when taken together (316/420), appeared to have a higher hit rate compared to the auto-attack hit rate (the 7186/10381 estimate), and the apparent 5% difference was taken to correspond to +10 accuracy on WS.

You can be skeptical if you want, but many other alleged "knowns" about FFXI mechanics are accepted on much less.

(While the original source is lost, I recall that the test subject was a Mountain Clot in Mount Zhayolm but do not remember if the data was collected over multiple clots

Yea, I realize I'm skeptical when it's accepted by the community~

The test showed 210 ws with and without gorget where the 2nd and 3rd hit gained a bit of accuracy with gorget. I think Releena said it best: "Near the end I believe it also says: these aren't enough tests to have 95% confidence (in the results). A lot better than what we had though."

With only ~210 samples for the second and third hits, it could easily be a few % off (Such as my earlier Mythic tests which lead me to believe a ~46.5% rate on Mythic DA.) I don't want to sound condescending, but it's not enough to convince me for sure~

The other part is the assumed +10 accuracy. When I missed around with Gekko accuracy on crabs, I noticed small changes in accuracy made a large impact on my hit rate. I'll repeat those tests tomorrow, maybe I can open things up for further testing or just shut myself up~