SE: Xbox Live Holding Up FFXIV on 360

[Kenai]

Please tell me XIV is not going to come out on 360. Xbox limitations is the new nightmare.

You're just being silly now.

My personal opinion is that MS wants money from SE in addition to SE charging a monthly fee, OR there's some kind of standard thing that MS wants from FFXIV that it can't give right now, since it's going directly through Xboxlive. Gold/Silver accounts should have absolutely nothing to do with it, POL or no. It looks like it was mentioned already, but this has never been an issue with any MMO or DLC on the 360.

[HiPotion]

yea xbox limitations already showing in games, dont want to see them in FF14
i think MS want every ff14 player to pay for them, they want a piece of everything

[Shadowcatt]

We also don't know what kind of financial arrangements SE made with MS to get FFXI on 360. I suspect that whatever deals took place to get XI on 360 are what is currently up for negotiations with MS this time around. It all depends on who wants it more.

[Reapz]

I don't want to start hearing Xbox limitations in a few years time, stick to PS3/PC

[Kingkai]

Maybe this is what was meant by "No fee", as in you would pay a fee like with most MMO, but you wouldn't have to pay to use the Playstation network, so what is holding 360 back is that they want the subscription to use it and SE wants to keep it free.

Putting that in a press release could be a way to force MS into allowing their way. Once all the 360 users call up MS and bitch, SE may be hoping that leverage will make MS do what they want. "It isn't our fault, call MS and complain, we are just the middle man"


360 was great for XI, I just didn't like how much I DC'd on it vs a PC sitting 5 feet away on the same router....

May have been just my 360 tho, and 360 had the ability to play FFXI while playing my library from my PC at the same time. Damn PS3 only did one or the other ; ;

[Baelorn]

All that being said, what is at issue here is security. Xbox Live is an extremely secure network. There has yet to be a successful network hack on XBL. Meanwhile, the PSN was hacked on day 0, and continues to have an open door network-wise. With a little Google-fu, you could become a Script-Kitty, downloading free movies off the PSN and cheating in your favorite online game. This is a big reason behind the 360 getting services like Netflix and the PS3 does not. Sony cannot guarantee their content will be secure, but Microsoft does.

You're way off on this part. The same sites that host PS3/PSN hacks host 360/XBL hacks. XBL was hacked multiple times in the past and with your mastery of "Google-fu" I'm sure you'll have no problem finding several articles about it.

Also, unless you work for SE or MS you may not want to state your opinion as fact. It just makes you sound like a douchebag.

[Eticket]

The idiocy in the comments on the article made my night.

[Baelorn]

The idiocy in the comments on the article made my night.

Yeah for a good time you can check out any FFXI news on mainstream gaming sites.

[Folant]

Honestly, I don't see the problem, really. I mean, there's going to be an intermediary that FFXIV is played through, like PlayOnline is for FFXI?

Not like it's a game being played on Microsoft's servers for Xbox.

[Mayareira]

I am happy to see FFXIV on PS3 but like said above, the main reason why ps2 held FFXI back was the memory limitations(it couldn't even run text-based soccer management games properly :/). Current generation consoles are much more expandable and allows a lot more creative freedom than ps2. 5 years from today we probably won't be talking about "ps3 limitations" as much as we do about ps2 limitations today.

That said, a potential x360 version wouldn't really significantly limit the game more than ps3. Only way to create a perfectly expandable MMORPG would be to go Blizzard way and keep it as a computer game(Windows/OS X, etc.) but that's naturally not an option for FFXIV.

[Riki]

XBL was hacked multiple times in the past

lol wut?

[Aprotosis]

The same sites that host PS3/PSN hacks host 360/XBL hacks. XBL was hacked multiple times in the past and with your mastery of "Google-fu" I'm sure you'll have no problem finding several articles about it.

Perhaps you have attained a higher level of Google enlightenment than I, for I cannot find a claim that Xbox Live has been compromised. Now, people's accounts get "hacked" all the time. That is because they use social hacks and other ways to trick people's passwords out from them and in one higher profile case, was even able to talk a MS customer service rep into devluging this info. However, the network itself has withstood all attacks. Let's go ahead and throw you a bone however and say for argument's sake that there was a method of hacking Xbox Live that gets discovered. I do not think there is any doubt that Microsoft would patch that hole quickly. The same could not be said of Sony and the PSN. They simply do not care to secure it beyond the pony show they have now.

Also, unless you work for SE or MS you may not want to state your opinion as fact. It just makes you sound like a douchebag.

I am guessing it is more my saying things you disagreed with a yet couldn't refute that made you result to an ad hominem, rather than word usage implying truth. I mean, so many other's stated their opinions as fact, yet you chose to assail me. Maybe you just have inside information that Microsoft really is just arguing over finacial considerations which is why you don't think any of them are douchebags? I will continue to stand by my claims and you can decide if that is me being obstinant or as a signal of any potential employment on my part.

[Shojin]

All that being said, what is at issue here is security. Xbox Live is an extremely secure network. There has yet to be a successful network hack on XBL. Meanwhile, the PSN was hacked on day 0, and continues to have an open door network-wise. With a little Google-fu, you could become a Script-Kitty, downloading free movies off the PSN and cheating in your favorite online game. This is a big reason behind the 360 getting services like Netflix and the PS3 does not. Sony cannot guarantee their content will be secure, but Microsoft does.

I was with you up until this part, where your fanboy side reared its ugly head. By "the PSN was hacked on day 0, and continues to have an open door" refer to that one time that Sony released a statement saying that it was possible some peoples accounts may have been vulnerable and they patched it?

Also, as far as I know there aren't any ways of downloading free movies or games off the PSN. I did some looking around and everything was phishing sites. And as for cheating in an online game, the only instance I can think about of this was the CoD4 UFO hack, which used a file loaded from a mem stick/external HDD. This happened on PS3 AND Xbox 360. And as for the reason of Netflix on 360, Netflix themselves have said they want to have it on all consoles, including the Wii, the reason Sony doesn't want it is because they have their own rental video service, and they want people using that.

Back on track, I also heard something about MS wanted their own servers, nothing official, just discussions on other forums and gaming blogs. Or it could be that MS wants a small chunk of the subscription fees. I still don't doubt that it will eventually come to the Xbox 360, it just won't come at the same time as the launch on the PC/PS3.

[Seph]

Wow.... people should stop making things up it was already explained before why the game is not coming to xbox and it got nothing to do with many things that got mentioned on this topic

The problem is Microsoft does not want people on xbox to play with PS3 players
they require separate servers we do not know if this happened with FFXIV but we know that Microsoft said the same exact thing to other developers before.

PS2 was the king of its time sales wise they had to bend over to get developers support but now they actually think that they can compete just fine with the PS3 and they wanna keep xbox live as the premium Online play service. playing on PS3 for free while paying while playing on xbox is not PREMIUM lol.

Then there is the greedy Microsoft and the "What's in it for me" there was Many times where developers wanted to give content for free but Microsoft requested a fee and they have a system where you can not give anything free to the PS3 network "I know it's fucked up" their reason? cause they want to charge for the downloads in their platform and giving the same exact content on ps3 for free will make players look at the PS3 as the better system, what happens is the content that was planned to be free ended up costing money on PS3+360 because of Microsoft.

They also do not allow mods at all "for example unreal tournament allows you to download mods/maps on the PS3 while you can not do so on the XBOX360" because this courage people to download mods/maps/characters etc for free instead of paying for extra maps etc they don't want such a thing to be wise spread.

There is also the locked keyboard support and when it's unlocked for msn/etc it's not full keyboard same thing happened with FF11/The HD install limit "developers do not have access to all of the Hard drive you can barely request 5-6GB for your game from microsoft" also most xbox360 sold came with 20GB HD "only 13GB available the rest is saved for the OS/etc and i doubt that 13GB is enough for FFXIV"

To make it simple SE got to break all Microsoft rules+Do it without any charges for xbox360 version to happen. SE wont leave PS3/PC support for Microsoft sake.

Whatever happens SE already did state that FFXIV is not coming to xbox at 2010 and won't start optimize the game for xbox until they have an agreement with microsoft so best case scenario is that FFXIV will come to xbox at Fall 2011 and if that happened i believe that they are better with creating the game on next Xbox720 or whatever than xbox360.

[Riki]

The problem is Microsoft does not want people on xbox to play with PS3 players
they require separate servers we do not know if this happened with FFXIV but we know that Microsoft said the same exact thing to other developers before.

FF14 is marketed as cross regions/cross platform from the start. It's a feature of this game. So if that is really the reason, i doubt we will ever see a version of this game on any Microsoft platform aside from windows PCs.

[arus2001]

I was under the impression the 360 was already showing forms of cross-platform limitations compared to the PS3. For example, XIII would have diminished frame rates and lesser overall picture quality. A MGS4 port would also have like 8 DVDs or something stupid if it was to ever happen.

While it's hard to say if XIV would push the graphical limits like either game would, I do show a bit of concern when they start talking about voice work and space compared to DVDs and BR. How much of a full drive install could be a detriment to the 360 compared to PCs or even the PS3 with a single BR disc?

[Riki]

While it's hard to say if XIV would push the graphical limits like either game would, I do show a bit of concern when they start talking about voice work and space compared to DVDs and BR. How much of a full drive install could be a detriment to the 360 compared to PCs or even the PS3 with a single BR disc?

Mixing up two points here.
Even with a 360 version, the limiting point would not so much be the platform, it would be the crystal tools engine. And crystal tools already runs on 360, since FF13 runs on that engine too.
Same could be said about FF11. "PS2 limitations" always meant the limits of the engine, which was created with the limits of the PS2 in mind at that time.

As for full install and a 360 version: It is hard to say at this point how much space FF14 would take. I know FF13 will come on one Bluray on PS3 while the 360 version will be two or three DVDs. But MMORPGs usually require full installation and i guess FF14 will be no exception. The 13GB free HDD space on the original 360 could be a limiting pont here. Aside from the HDD-less Arcade, what is the smallest HDD the 360 comes with these days?

[Seph]

Mixing up two points here.
Even with a 360 version, the limiting point would not so much be the platform, it would be the crystal tools engine. And crystal tools already runs on 360, since FF13 runs on that engine too.
Same could be said about FF11. "PS2 limitations" always meant the limits of the engine, which was created with the limits of the PS2 in mind at that time.

As for full install and a 360 version: It is hard to say at this point how much space FF14 would take. I know FF13 will come on one Bluray on PS3 while the 360 version will be two or three DVDs. But MMORPGs usually require full installation and i guess FF14 will be no exception. The 13GB free HDD space on the original 360 could be a limiting pont here. Aside from the HDD-less Arcade, what is the smallest HDD the 360 comes with these days?

I'm sure 360 version won't gimp pc/ps3 version since the engine can be scaled.

360 was shipped from 2005 to 2008 with arcade(no HD) and Pro (20GB only 13GB available)
late 2008/2009 pro HD was upgraded to 60GB~ but point is most people who gonna buy it will need to upgrade their HD that's for sure. Microsoft sell those HD for 100$ for the 60GB and 159$ for the 120GB (i know crazy lol).

[Baelorn]

Let's go ahead and throw you a bone however and say for argument's sake that there was a method of hacking Xbox Live that gets discovered. I do not think there is any doubt that Microsoft would patch that hole quickly. The same could not be said of Sony and the PSN. They simply do not care to secure it beyond the pony show they have now.

I'm not going to argue with an obvious fanboy here. This whole paragraph screams it. I never denied PSN has security issues but so does XBL. There's also no less than 3 sites I found that host 360 hacks(and, like I said, PS3 hacks). It's surprising that XBOX owners(I'm assuming) don't know about the XBL hacks considering it was on the front page of just about every gaming site and sites like Digg.

Also, it took me less than fifteen minutes last night to find the entire contents of the Netflix agreement(was never made public but you can see everything MS and Netflix integrated in about 6 months before the XBL announcement). It was very easy to see it had more to do with boatloads of money from MS when Netflix was in the red and nothing to do with security. Netflix is now using Microsoft's SilverLight player exclusively despite customer complaints and deletes any reviews that say anything negative about the player(I'm also a Netflix member).

Like I said above I'm not going to continue this conversation. SE is in talks with MS and I have no doubts they will work something out eventually. If you want to find what I did everything I found was easily found on Google. I'm not going to link to shady hacking sites that could potentially infect someone's computer(google at your own risk).

*I don't own a 360 because I'm not interested in any of the games and I refuse to support hardware with a >30% failure rate but I do own(and like) a lot of other MS products. The failure rate was supposedly fixed with the new models but the old models are still on the market and the new models aren't clearly marked in any way.

[zoobernut]

Throwing out the fanboy card is just as bad as throwing out the opinion card. Too much speculation on why FF14 will be delayed or never show up on the 360. Everything said in this thread is pure speculation no one really knows exactly what type of negotiations are happening between SE and MS.

All it really says is Xbox live policies in the article, that could mean anything, security, subscription fees, updates, anything.