SE: Xbox Live Holding Up FFXIV on 360

[Ninjiz]

And whats with all the silly fanboy stuff??
Both Ps3 and 360 have development pros and cons.
360 limitations?
IF, and thats a big IF, FFXIV were to reach raw graphics (which i doubt) on PS3 that simply were IMPOSSIBLE on 360, SE woudl simply scale back some graphics. Having no effect on gameplay. PS2 limitatons were due to its availible memory compared PC and 360.
But the 360 has more availble memory than the Ps3. So how exactly would 360 hold the game back? I could have sworn, FFXIV initial development started on 360 hardware. Hell SE showed off the first tech Demo for it at a MS conference at E3 way back when.

Many Devs have already said its easier to make MMO's on 360 over PS3 anyway because of that memory fact. Turbine being one of them. Devs have even said its harder to migrate a game from the 360 to the PS3, also because of the memory difference.

Xbox 360 uses 512MB of Unified RAM for CPU or GPU purposes at any time for anyhing the developers want. RAM is never wasted. This is why devs says Xbox 360 allows them to work with 512MB of RAM.

PS3 uses 512 MB of Non-Unified RAM divided into two sections--one with 256MB devoted to the CPU, while the other 256MB is devoted as Video RAM. The CPU can tap into the Video RAM in difficult circumstances, but Video RAM cant tap into the general purpose RAM of the CPU. This is the reason why devs say the PS3 limits RAM to 256MB in MMO games, since there literally is a 256MB bottleneck.

As said by a billion professionals, both systems have plus and minus'. So to argue about LAWL my system is sooooo much more powerful than yours is foolish. Neither system has been completely tapped.

360 is already running out of steam game wise, you really can see the graphical limitations in games like Gears of War 2, on the other hand, ps3's hardware is still mostly untapped and its just now putting out games like uncharted 2, there is just no way SE would want to put its next big MMO on a system that is already on its way out

After RE5, i dont think GOW2 is the graphical standard on 360...

[Destinye]

I always loved when people like to throw around the word limitation in the same sentence as Xbox 360 when the PS3 has more limitations than the 360 does.

So what if PS3 can make prettier games? Kids these days don't realize Graphics =/= the game. RE4 (at its time) and RE5 only really sold because they're pretty games, they aren't the typical Biohazard game most of us grew up playing and grew to love.

Besides...FFXIV is being developed in this process:

PC > PS3 > 360 (if release is possible), they've already said scaling will happen, but hell the only bad thing about the 360 was the 'RRoD", which the PS3 suffers from the same only it's not a Red Ring, it's yellow.

All developers have said the PS3 sucks to develop for and games being made for the 360 and PS3 are often delayed because of the PS3 and despite what people want to believe it's not the developers "lack of skill", its the fact Sony always makes the shittiest development platforms..PS3 is no exception.

[Kurokikaze]

Why would you necrobump this thread with garbage?

[Malacite]

And whats with all the silly fanboy stuff??
Both Ps3 and 360 have development pros and cons.
360 limitations?
IF, and thats a big IF, FFXIV were to reach raw graphics (which i doubt) on PS3 that simply were IMPOSSIBLE on 360, SE woudl simply scale back some graphics. Having no effect on gameplay. PS2 limitatons were due to its availible memory compared PC and 360.
But the 360 has more availble memory than the Ps3. So how exactly would 360 hold the game back? I could have sworn, FFXIV initial development started on 360 hardware. Hell SE showed off the first tech Demo for it at a MS conference at E3 way back when.

Many Devs have already said its easier to make MMO's on 360 over PS3 anyway because of that memory fact. Turbine being one of them. Devs have even said its harder to migrate a game from the 360 to the PS3, also because of the memory difference.

Xbox 360 uses 512MB of Unified RAM for CPU or GPU purposes at any time for anyhing the developers want. RAM is never wasted. This is why devs says Xbox 360 allows them to work with 512MB of RAM.

PS3 uses 512 MB of Non-Unified RAM divided into two sections--one with 256MB devoted to the CPU, while the other 256MB is devoted as Video RAM. The CPU can tap into the Video RAM in difficult circumstances, but Video RAM cant tap into the general purpose RAM of the CPU. This is the reason why devs say the PS3 limits RAM to 256MB in MMO games, since there literally is a 256MB bottleneck.

As said by a billion professionals, both systems have plus and minus'. So to argue about LAWL my system is sooooo much more powerful than yours is foolish. Neither system has been completely tapped.



After RE5, i dont think GOW2 is the graphical standard on 360...

I'm getting real sick of people spouting this bullshit myth.

The PS2 has the same 512 MB as the 360, the difference is half of it is dedicated to Cell & the other half the RSX. But there's also another key difference;

PS3’s RAM and RSX explained - Talk Playstation

There has been a lot of talk about the Playstation 3’s Random Access Memory (RAM) vs Xbox 360’s RAM, saying that the 360 has more RAM to work with etc. Here’s an article to explain the situation of its RAM.

Just so you know that the PS3 has 512MB of RAM (256 for video and 256 for system). The Cell chip has 256MB of completely sharable RAM, the GPU has 256MB of dedicated RAM. Now the key here is what type of RAM it is.

The Playstation 3 has 256mb of GDDR3 at 700mhz and 256Mb of XDR at 3.2ghz. So what exactly is XDR ram? Here are some of the highlights:

* XDR makes PS3 super effiecient
* XDR aids in faster cache mapping, both direct and indirect
* XDR ram works by a pointer to pointer technology and needs very small buswidth for execution
* XDR is not just faster than GDDR3 but it is much more efficient
* XDR RAM works by breaking down data into several packets which prevents data loss and exceptions

The Rambus XDR™ memory architecture is a total memory system solution that achieves an order of magnitude higher performance than today’s standard memories while utilizing the fewest ICs. Perfect for compute and consumer electronics applications

The PS3 has two times as much cache at 2x the speed, making it way faster for direct/indirect mapping. Not only that but it has 512k of L1 cache + 1.7m of L2 cache for the 7 spes. The PS3’s GPU, RSX was made to work with the Cell processor, it is not some GPU they took and slotted in. It is made to be compatible with the Cell.

More RAM does not mean a faster system it means more data can be stored in a fast access area. Games don’t always need 512mb of RAM.

The RSX can freely use as much of the 512MB total RAM that the PS3 has because the Cell doesn’t need much RAM because its fast enough. And the fact that the PS3 has XDR means that it has faster access to data files.

A lot of people are saying that the RSX only has 256mb of RAM, whereas the 360’s GPU has 512MB of RAM. To make it sound a bit simpler, here’s the real deal. The PS3 has it’s RAM in two separate parts, 256MB for the RSX and 256MB that can be used be either the Cell or RSX.

So there you go.

[Chakra]

I'm getting real sick of people spouting this bullshit myth.

The PS2 has the same 512 MB as the 360, the difference is half of it is dedicated to Cell & the other half the RSX. But there's also another key difference;

PS3’s RAM and RSX explained - Talk Playstation




So there you go.

Thanks I was interested in this, but completely forgot to look it up until you made a nice post about it. Cheers.

[Mizango]

Why would you necrobump this thread with garbage?

^

This thread sucks.

^

[Shojin]

This thread sucks.

Pretty much.

[Shojin]

Also,

I always loved when people like to throw around the word limitation in the same sentence as Xbox 360 when the PS3 has more limitations than the 360 does.

So what if PS3 can make prettier games? Kids these days don't realize Graphics =/= the game. RE4 (at its time) and RE5 only really sold because they're pretty games, they aren't the typical Biohazard game most of us grew up playing and grew to love.

Besides...FFXIV is being developed in this process:

PC > PS3 > 360 (if release is possible), they've already said scaling will happen, but hell the only bad thing about the 360 was the 'RRoD", which the PS3 suffers from the same only it's not a Red Ring, it's yellow.

All developers have said the PS3 sucks to develop for and games being made for the 360 and PS3 are often delayed because of the PS3 and despite what people want to believe it's not the developers "lack of skill", its the fact Sony always makes the shittiest development platforms..PS3 is no exception.

lol

[Ninjiz]

Oh Im sorry... who are we to believe. Armies of developers who work on both systems who tell you what each is capable of, or someone throwing around specs to tell us how efficent the PS3s 256mb XDR is?? Adding up specs from multiple chips is one thing, being able to access ALL of those numbers, and without bottlenecks is another.

[Seph]

Oh Im sorry... who are we to believe. Armies of developers who work on both systems who tell you what each is capable of, or someone throwing around specs to tell us how efficent the PS3s 256mb XDR is?? Adding up specs from multiple chips is one thing, being able to access ALL of those numbers, and without bottlenecks is another.

We will believe the retard Ninjiz who speak from his ass
Wake me up when the xbox can display things like that
YouTube - Uncharted 2 Walkthrough HD part 12 Chapter 6 Desprate times - Helicopter Boss Part 1

[Ninjiz]

Because raw graphic power isnt the same as memory limitations you fucking moron. Know wtf youre talking about before you call me a retard. The PS1 had more graphic power, and therefore could push more poly then the Saturn. But the Saturn had more memory, and could do things the PS1 could not. Take Dead or Alive 1 for example. The PS1 version had higher ploy count, better graphics, but it didnt have the memory to have the 3D backgrounds, so they were taken out, and the background was just a picture ala Tekken. The Saturn version had lower poly count but had the backgrounds in 3D. PS1 despite being more powerful then Saturn also could not run Xmen vs SF, and the Ps1 port had the resolution dropped as well as tag disabled.

As I said, COUNTLESS devs have atested to this. They are in far better positions to tell you whats what then some guy who cant program anything, and reads a spec sheet.

Why do you think so many multi platform games looks better on the 360??? Why do you think Bayonetta in Famitsu got a 40, and the PS3 got 38??? When the 360 version runs flawlessly, and the PS3 version has hickups? Why do you think Ghostbusters was outputted at 50% or so of the 360 versions resolution, even tho the Dev praised PS3s power??

God stop being such a stupid fanboy.

Until you can prove that every DEVELOPER is WRONG, and they ALL dont know how to program (including Sega) then stfu with your fanboy shit.

[xopher]

Why do you think so many multi platform games looks better on the 360??? Why do you think Bayonetta in Famitsu got a 40, and the PS3 got 38??? When the 360 version runs flawlessly, and the PS3 version has hickups?

Because it was developed for 360 first by Platinum Games and then converted to PS3 by Sega and Sega has taken the blame for the shitty conversion and apologized for it saying it's their fault, not the console's.

God stop being such a stupid fanboy.

[Ninjiz]

If im wrong about Bayonetta, then I accept that.

Can you give me the link ,icouldnt find it on google. Last I had heard when confronted about the difference PG simply stated "we didnt handle the PS3 version, Sega did." If im wrong so be it, because it still doesnt address any memory limitations. It still does nothing to dispute the quotes of established devs who say otherwise.

And Fanboy? Im furthest thing from it, I have both systems, and love both. I dont "have" to choose between the two.

But to say 360 would hold FFXIV back is just ridiculous.

[Rokku]

SEGA Takes Full Responsibility For PS3 Version of Bayonetta - bayonetta - Kotaku


Also, this thread has become utterly retarded.

[Kietsu]

You are mistaken. A silver account will function for all MMOs and you never need a gold account to receive game updates.


Incorrect. It doesn't require Gold because that is Microsoft policy regarding MMOs.


Also incorrect. Specifically, this would be the kind of thing that Silver does disallow. Silver users can't play Ghostbusters online, yet it has offline components. You sound like you haven't played PSU, but maybe I am not undestanding you. The online components are fully online and PSU is a "true" MMO.(If it helps, think of it like Guild Wars) Thus under MS policy, you can play it with a Silver account.


FFXIV is an MMO, which MS does not require Gold for. Gold is never required for game updates or DLC. Some DLC may get a timed-release based on account status, but you think they won't take your money just because you are a Silver user? If a game is using its own server, it can update you as much as it would like. Very few games use their own server.


I am not sure where you got this "using XBL" idea from. All games on the Xbox360 with an online component, including MMOs, use XBL. This is regardless of how it serves content.
PlayOnline is not some mystical inbetween that circumvents account status and 360 network rules. The security check is not done on the application layer.

All that being said, what is at issue here is security. Xbox Live is an extremely secure network. There has yet to be a successful network hack on XBL. Meanwhile, the PSN was hacked on day 0, and continues to have an open door network-wise. With a little Google-fu, you could become a Script-Kitty, downloading free movies off the PSN and cheating in your favorite online game. This is a big reason behind the 360 getting services like Netflix and the PS3 does not. Sony cannot guarantee their content will be secure, but Microsoft does.

PSU is a good example. PSU for XBL is isloated. It is only visible to the 360, which is why you cannot get cross-platform play like you can in FFXI. It is not exposed to the "internet". FFXI does have cross-platform play, so the security issues regarding it were very scrutinized. Anywhere that XBL interacts with the Internet has to have the same high-security doors, which means that FFXIV needs to monitor network traffic as if it was a mini-XBL. Since FFXI's release however, old policies have been strengthed and new ones enforced which makes it more difficult.

With FFXIV they have two options: 1) Create Xbox only servers or 2) Adhere to the more strict security standards, which will mean code changes to tighten their network security and potentially re-shape the way the client interacts with the servers. Most developers choose option 1.

I think i love you! Saved me having to type a wall of text

[xopher]

But to say 360 would hold FFXIV back is just ridiculous.

No one ever said that.

They said XBL is holding back FFXIV from being released on 360.

It's going to be released on PS3 and PC according to schedule, whatever that schedule may be.

the only thing people are saying is that the 360 release is up in the air.

[Ninjiz]

Tho thats not really the same as xopher says.

Yes, there appears to be a discrepancy in the graphics for the PS3 and Xbox 360 version of Bayonetta. SEGA wants to be very clear, it did the PS3 port.

Platinum Games has pointed this out in the past — even going as far to state its own role in the process.

But SEGA is going the extra mile, just to make sure everyone is on the same page. For example, Bayonetta's PS3 demo has this placard that reads, "Converted by SEGA". If that wasn't even, games PR game mag Famitsu even points out that SEGA ported the PS3 version.

[Rokku]

You should really just stop posting while you're still ahead.

[Ninjiz]

No one ever said that.

They said XBL is holding back FFXIV from being released on 360.

It's going to be released on PS3 and PC according to schedule, whatever that schedule may be.

the only thing people are saying is that the 360 release is up in the air.

Of Course THEY (SE) didnt say that. Have you been reading the same thread here as me? My comment was for the people who keeping saying things like

360 is already running out of steam game wise, you really can see the graphical limitations in games like Gears of War 2, on the other hand, ps3's hardware is still mostly untapped and its just now putting out games like uncharted 2, there is just no way SE would want to put its next big MMO on a system that is already on its way out

or 360 limitations and whatnot

completly going agaisnt what SE has already said. Since MMORPGS rely on a lot of RAM I was pointing out how the 360 is in no danger of that.

I only got snippy when someone called me a retard for pointing that out.

[xopher]

Tho thats not really the same as xopher says.

Have you given any thought as to why they are accepting responsibility?