Are progressives losing faith in the Obama admin?

[Kuya]

Dems do have a little more "class" about it though. Remember that Obama's campaign received an award for best marketing, and it was commented by multiple experts (political) at how amazingly effective that campaign was, so perhaps it is not surprising that the enfatuation lasted this long.

However, you would have thought that Obama's campaign receiving an award for best marketing would have sent some red flags.

[Rhinox]

I honestly have no care of history. The failures of the past presidents, government policies, and unwanted intervention into the lives of citizens is my major concern. If he's such a great speaker, become Anthony Robbins. I see angst though with your messiah amongst the people.

funny. The same could be applied to Ronald Reagan.

[Rhinox]

As to the OP.

If health care reform doesn't get passed with at the very least the public option I can guarantee you this will be the shortest most over-hyped presidency in history. Progressives aren't the sheep Conservatives are in following the leader. As a progressive I can only hope at this point that he is playing chess not checkers when it comes to this seemingly wavering on the public option. They're people saying what the white house did last weekend was intentional to stir up the liberal base (and stir them up he did).

[guartz]

Dems do have a little more "class" about it though. Remember that Obama's campaign received an award for best marketing, and it was commented by multiple experts (political) at how amazingly effective that campaign was, so perhaps it is not surprising that the enfatuation lasted this long.

However, you would have thought that Obama's campaign receiving an award for best marketing would have sent some red flags.

Yea, well, in hindsight the hope campaign was obviously lacking in substance and in depth, although many have yet to realize this. You gotta give that guy some credit though, it's not easy battling the mantra of terrorism with a mantra of hope, you know, less syllables. I actually didn't know Obama had received awards for his campaign.

[Leif]

I've said it before. "Hope & change" politics never happened and won't happen. I hate to say it, but people now know they were duped. Believing that liberals could be strong in war, provide a strong national defense, be fiscally responsible, promote individual liberty and achievement, or save any money whatsoever is something that never has been true and never will be true.

What's even better is you can't blame the right for stopping them when you have control of everything in Washington.

[Not not Mattaru]

Kuya:

1) Thanks for asking the question, gave me a chance to reflect then conclude that it really isn't important to the point I am making, so typing it all out would only be a distraction.

2) The role of the people is not something I need to or can dictate without being more than morally presumptuous. I can define my own role and I can say if someone is being disingenuous or not fulfilling the role they define, but anything more than that hurts discourse and as a result the democratic process.

3) Because many people have false expectations. Sure politicians don't discourage it and probably make it worse, but they aren't the only people to blame.

My point is simply people like to show everyone that they are right, superior, etc. So when they win an argument they beat their chest and jerk themselves off. But no one is infallible, so inevitably someone else will take their place and they will be getting jerked off on. So, instead of getting out of this stupid cycle, people like yourself like to perpetuate it and pretend it doesn't exist.

[Kuya]

Incidentally, i am going to jerk off in a few minutes.

[Alleya]

Dems do have a little more "class" about it though. Remember that Obama's campaign received an award for best marketing, and it was commented by multiple experts (political) at how amazingly effective that campaign was, so perhaps it is not surprising that the enfatuation lasted this long.

However, you would have thought that Obama's campaign receiving an award for best marketing would have sent some red flags.

Honestly it's just indicative of how the political process is viewed in America these days. Campaigns have been exercises in marketing since the 50s. As the marketing apparatus grows more sophisticated, so do the campaigns, until the two are so inextricable that government office is just seen as another marketing blitz.

It was painfully obvious with the Clinton and McCain campaigns. All their statements, slogans, policy positions, speeches, appearances, everything, were all focus grouped and market tested into a gray, lifeless paste. I think Obama beat Hillary/McCain purely because he had the charisma and acting chops to make all of this less offensively obvious than the others. He was the only candidate on the field who didn't talk to Americans like they were a key demographic, but instead real people. That was the success of his campaign from a marketing standpoint, and it really was marvelously effective, so it's not surprising they gave out awards for it.

And then the media wonders (as if they don't already know) why Americans are so jaded with the whole process.

[Dimmauk]

Does the GOP still think they have a chance at beating Obama in the next election?

The right wing Scare tactics and misinformation is somewhat working, but when the facts come out, they will look just as bad as they did when Bush was terrorizing the country.

We keep hearing from the loud mouthed people that oppose the health care, but way more people support it.

[Kuya]

This isn't really about them though.

[Leif]

Does the GOP still think they have a chance at beating Obama in the next election?

I'd say the odds are actually quite impressive. More impressive, actually, for 2010 elections.

The right wing Scare tactics and misinformation is somewhat working, but when the facts come out, they will look just as bad as they did when Bush was terrorizing the country.

Have you been watching MSNBC? I think you have... I mean, you honestly think Bush was terrorizing the country. But wait, he was also terrozing terrorists and the Iraqi children? And France? Wow, this guy must have been evil, trying to destroy everything that lives in the WHOLE WORLD. He took nobody's side because he chose DEATH and DESTRUCTION!

We keep hearing from the loud mouthed people that oppose the health care, but way more people support it.

Check the polls. People don't want it. People don't want to pay for it.

[Rhinox]

I've said it before. "Hope & change" politics never happened and won't happen. I hate to say it, but people now know they were duped. Believing that liberals could be strong in war, provide a strong national defense, be fiscally responsible, promote individual liberty and achievement, or save any money whatsoever is something that never has been true and never will be true.

What's even better is you can't blame the right for stopping them when you have control of everything in Washington.

Wrong. There is the Bluedogs who are in the right wing as well as conservative Dem senators. Either way the Right is still cockblocking america,

[Rhinox]

I'd say the odds are actually quite impressive. More impressive, actually, for 2010 elections.


Have you been watching MSNBC? I think you have... I mean, you honestly think Bush was terrorizing the country. But wait, he was also terrozing terrorists and the Iraqi children? And France? Wow, this guy must have been evil, trying to destroy everything that lives in the WHOLE WORLD. He took nobody's side because he chose DEATH and DESTRUCTION!


Check the polls. People don't want it. People don't want to pay for it.

Spoken like a true neocon. Btw fun fact. Push polls done by frank Luntz are as about reliable as a Fiat.

[Kuya]

I have to clarify. Unlike some people here seem to be doing, i'm using the term politician to refer to the fact that politicians lie and they do dubious things in order to get elected, and that Obama stretched the truth during his election should have been expected. I'm not saying that he's an evil fiend that came out of the netherrealms.

But that's the point. Politicians don't lie about everything, and one can usually expect, according to their professed ideologies, what they intend to do. What is going on here is the fact that Obama has done a complete 180 on some promises and along with the Democrats, has enacted very dissapointing policy, which according to their professed liberalism, shouldn't have happened. This is the most important point: Why are they creating policy like this? Who are they conceding to? This can't be flippantly tossed as side with platitudes like "all politicians lie" or "that's politics"; idiots like that should not even waste their time.

The thing that bothers a lot of people is why are they conceding so much when the Republicans are so weak? The obvious answer is that they shouldn't be conceding so much, so faced with this illogical situation, we have to find an answer. It's not as simple as saying that democrats are spineless. Isn't that a fun way to rid ourselves of the duty of finding out why they are enacting policy this way. And that's leads to my other point.

We seemingly have decided that we trust the dems and Obama so much that we foolishly thought that, because the Republicans were weak, that they would enact amazing liberal policy that would change the US. Why shouldn't we have expected that considering that the opposition was down for the count? But now we find that they seemingly weaken policy in the name of bipartisanship and concessions with no reason in sight to account for it. And instead of getting angry with Obama and the dems and demanding liberal change, we waste our time bitching about the GOP and its antics as if they were accountable to us or as if they owed anything to us. We should never have expected the dems and Obama to enact the change we wanted on their own. FDR himself asked his constituents to force him to bring change, they didn't wait and trust that he would, they brought preassure upon him and this is exactly what we have not been doing.

To make this more understandable:

- We trusted the dems and Obama too much to enact change that we should have been on their backs demanding that they enact, and instead have consistently made excuses for them everytime they failed and wasted our efforst complaining about the GOP and therefore giving the dems and Obama en excuse and alibi not to do what we expected them to. We should have been furious when they failed us, more furious than the idiots in the town halls, and we should have constantly been demanding from Congressmen.

- Instead of asking why they failed in their promises, we either accepted it or we went off to blame the GOP rather than critically really asking ourselves why they would concede things when they had no reason to do so in the first place. Is the problem the GOP or lobbying?

That is what this anger over the public option is about; the liberal constituency finally waking up and realising that the change they wanted was not going to come by just expecting Obama and the Democrats to do it for them. It was not going to come by being passive and just accepting their failures as passing events and that in the future (with not evidence at all to believe this) they would do better. The dynamo of change were the constituents in the FDR administration, and this is what was missing in the Obama administration. We are seeing (if any of you have been paying attention) recently a lot of liberal activy in favour of the public option and real anger with Obama and the Dems. One of the examples of this organized liberal movement has been the one organized by Jane Hamsher.

Here is more on their efforts.

[Demosthenes11]

Wrong. There is the Bluedogs who are in the right wing as well as conservative Dem senators. Either way the Right is still cockblocking america,

that is such a cop out and you know it

We fucking put Obama in charge with a supermajority in congress and it has been nothing but disappointment (for me at least). Healthcare reform was one of the biggest reasons I voted for him and if he backs down because of the minority spreading lies about death panels and god knows what, then Obama is a failure

[archibaldcrane]

The thing about Obama.

He was pretty damn good at sidestepping all the mines the GOP laid out for him in the election. The race-baiting, community organizer, etc. etc. - all the shit that he had to dodge and ignore he did so very, very nicely.

That is the main reason I had some faith in him. He seemed to understand the GOP's M.O. and not get sucked in. He chose his battles wisely - he knew that the answer to the abortion debate is that "he wants to reduce the number of abortions" - he picked positions that are politically easy to defend and difficult to attack that are still progressive.

What the fuck happened to that Obama?

Yeah, yeah, the GOP is a relentless and occasionally borderline insane misinformation machine, and you can't bat 1.000 against it...

...but you don't have to. Not with this majority. Not with this much public support and goodwill. He saw Hillary go down in flames with similar heath care proposals - he got to watch the other golfer miss the exact same putt. Adjust and make it, that's what you have to do.

He -has to- know how insane his opposition is. He has to. I just don't understand why he thinks it's a good idea to try to appeal to them. Again, he saw what happened to the stimulus - it got watered down and watered down in his attempt to appeal to the Republicans, his desire to "be bipartisan". And then they voted against it anyway. Fine - make that mistake once. Don't let it be the rallying cry of your administration you dumb motherfucker.

Obviously health care isn't done, there's no bill signed or shot down. He has a chance to right the ship. But yeah, I'm a progressive who is on the edge of losing faith. Let's see if he blows it.

[kuronosan]

The thing about Obama.

He was pretty damn good at sidestepping all the mines the GOP laid out for him in the election. The race-baiting, community organizer, etc. etc. - all the shit that he had to dodge and ignore he did so very, very nicely.

That is the main reason I had some faith in him. He seemed to understand the GOP's M.O. and not get sucked in. He chose his battles wisely - he knew that the answer to the abortion debate is that "he wants to reduce the number of abortions" - he picked positions that are politically easy to defend and difficult to attack that are still progressive.

What the fuck happened to that Obama?

Yeah, yeah, the GOP is a relentless and occasionally borderline insane misinformation machine, and you can't bat 1.000 against it...

...but you don't have to. Not with this majority. Not with this much public support and goodwill. He saw Hillary go down in flames with similar heath care proposals - he got to watch the other golfer miss the exact same putt. Adjust and make it, that's what you have to do.

He -has to- know how insane his opposition is. He has to. I just don't understand why he thinks it's a good idea to try to appeal to them. Again, he saw what happened to the stimulus - it got watered down and watered down in his attempt to appeal to the Republicans, his desire to "be bipartisan". And then they voted against it anyway. Fine - make that mistake once. Don't let it be the rallying cry of your administration you dumb motherfucker.

Obviously health care isn't done, there's no bill signed or shot down. He has a chance to right the ship. But yeah, I'm a progressive who is on the edge of losing faith. Let's see if he blows it.

For me, pretty much this post and the post above it. GOP was bawwing at the idea of a supermajority yet nothing the Democrats have tried to put through Congress has been met with little to no "opposition".

[eunhye]

are you are guys fake progressives. i mean, what about this war that's going on in Afghanistan... not much about it, huh?

[Kuya]

That is a troll post, but yes, because it is Obama's war, it is somehow good.

However:

As Afghans vote, American support for the Afghan war collapses | Salon News

As Afghans go to the polls in what is being widely decried as a flawed presidential election, a new Washington Post- ABC News opinion poll shows that American support for the Afghanistan War is collapsing. For the first time in two years, the percentage of Americans who said that the war was worth fighting fell below 50, all the way down to 47. Only 31 percent felt strongly about it being worth fighting.

[zoobernut]

Anyone who views Obama any differently from any other politician, in either direction good or bad is just retarded.

The political arena is just a giant soap opera now filled with melodramatic over acting retards. Everything either has to be amazing or abysmal there is no middle ground in politics anymore.