Upcoming CPUs

[Arkanna]

I wanted to verify something I heard.. someone mentioned that 1156-based i7 processors would not be able to support DDR3 in tri-channel because of the scaling done to allow i3 and i5 onto the same socket. I don't believe it's true but I haven't found anything to the contrary yet.

That may very well be true, because the LGA1156 i5 750 will contain a dual-channel memory controller while the LGA1366 i7's have always had a triple-channel controller.

[Minions]

I wanted to verify something I heard.. someone mentioned that 1156-based i7 processors would not be able to support DDR3 in tri-channel because of the scaling done to allow i3 and i5 onto the same socket. I don't believe it's true but I haven't found anything to the contrary yet.


umm wha? The i7 920 has never gone under $280 unless you bought it in person at a Micro-Center store, and even then it was like $255ish. Where are you getting this $220 figure?

I saw a deal for around that posted on these fourms. I was actually shocked cause I had just spent around 260~ on one off newegg.

[Arkanna]

I saw a deal for around that posted on these fourms. I was actually shocked cause I had just spent around 260~ on one off newegg.

Not long after the i7 920 launched, I picked one up off Newegg for something like $204. I was an extremely early adopter on the Core i7 though, so perhaps that was before the demand for them shot up.

*edit*

Actually, scratch that. I just searched my Newegg order history and I found all the components I ordered for my current system EXCEPT the i7, so I must have gotten it elsewhere. I probably saw a crazy deal on it or something and decided to build a system around it.

[Olo401]

I saw a deal for around that posted on these fourms. I was actually shocked cause I had just spent around 260~ on one off newegg.

Ohhh wait I remember now that was the reseller promo thing that was going around.

[mootsfox]

HardOCP posted a performance preview for the soon-to-be-released Core i5 750. Since the performance of an i5 750 vs an i7 920 is, clock for clock, very similar, it basically comes down to two things: price and future upgradability.

Price: Not all that long ago, the Core i7 920 could be had for just over $200, which was an awesome price. That has changed a bit now, as the i7 920 is priced at $280 on Newegg (Newegg.com - Intel Core i7 920 Nehalem 2.66GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Processor - Processors - Desktops). The Core i5 750 is a quad-core CPU that sits in a smaller (pin-wise) socket than Core i7 and does not have Hyperthreading. Its expected price is around the $200 mark, similar to the Core i7 920 at its launch.

Future upgradability: Here is where the i5 may or may not lose some steam. It will reside in a new socket (LGA1156), whereas the Core i7 resides in socket LGA1366. Intel will, in the future, be developing 6- and 8-core CPU's that will more than likely reside in the LGA1366 socket. Depending on market demand, those new 6- and 8-core CPU's may or may not appear in an LGA1156 variation. Intel has traditionally kept their higher-end CPU's clearly divided from their mid- and lower-end CPU's by isolating them to different slots/sockets. Then again, Intel (as well as AMD) have been known to abandon sockets in favor of new sockets as features required, so all of this may not matter in the slightest by the time those 6- and 8-core CPU's come to market.

Personal opinion: Fuck the future, build for the here and now. If the $80 differential between the Core i7 920 and the Core i5 750 is significant to you, then get the i5 750. You would, however, get more than $80 worth by going with the i7 920, particularly if you are an overclocker. Bottom line, either one of them thumps the shit out of anything AMD can muster for the time being, so you win no matter which CPU you go with.

Ok, there is a lot of mis information about the new core line in this thread.

The 920 has been $229 or $199 (current price) from Micro Center since February. I consider that an avaiable price, since it's there and hasn't gone up. Newegg can sell the fucker for $500 and people would still buy it, that doesn't mean it's the current market price.

Ok, i3, i5, i7 and i9 are model names, they do NOT necessarily relate to a socket. Rather, it's the features that give it their name. So the 860 is called an i7 because it has hyperthreading, even though it's on the LGA1156 socket. The 920 is also an i7, but on the LGA1366 socket. i3, i5 are only on the LGA1156 (current road map), and i7 will be on both, i9 will only be on LGA1366. i9 are the 6 and 8 core monsters.

This is the first time in YEARS that Intel has run two sockets together for consumer use. Yes, there was the LGA775/771 for home/server, but they were similar CPUs and not in the same market. There was socket M and socket P for laptops, but I wouldn't consider that on the consumer level, since the socket doesn't matter to anyone but a very small percentage of the laptop user group.

They are claiming all this is to reduce confusion...

Also, the Phemon II's from AMD are quite good, and are very close in performance to the i5/i7's. They are cheaper as well.

I wanted to verify something I heard.. someone mentioned that 1156-based i7 processors would not be able to support DDR3 in tri-channel because of the scaling done to allow i3 and i5 onto the same socket. I don't believe it's true but I haven't found anything to the contrary yet.

LGA1156 will never have tri channel. The whole point of having so many fucking pins on the flagship line was for tri channel memory.

[Octavious]

I ended up having to buy my i7 off newegg since the MicroCenter in Columbus was out of stock the 3x I checked earlier this year. I never had a bad experience with them before so I just figured I'd pay the extra money to get it, lol. II'm not too patient when I want to build something, as far as obtaining parts goes, after driving there and then being emo when it was out of stock I gave in. :'(

I love it to death too, I can't wait to see how beastly the i9's are (if at all) with the 6 & 8 core setup. Only issue I could guess would be the i9's would probably require me to get a full tower to fit a better cooler, or possibly switch to water cooling if my Xigmatek can't handle it. With the addition of the 6-8 core processors, i'd expect it to get hotter than the i7 920. Although that's all speculation on my part since I haven't seen anything on it yet. Good Info by the way Moots, much appreciated. Also, lol@intel trying to 'reduce confusion' by going through all that, it's pretty humorous.

[Arkanna]

Ok, there is a lot of mis information about the new core line in this thread.

The 920 has been $229 or $199 (current price) from Micro Center since February. I consider that an avaiable price, since it's there and hasn't gone up. Newegg can sell the fucker for $500 and people would still buy it, that doesn't mean it's the current market price.

Can you link to this please? Not saying I don't believe you, but I can't find it myself. It's also not really fair to say the market price of the CPU is $199 because one online store manages to sell it at that price.

*edit*

That probably explains it... would Micro Center be predominantly a brick-and-mortar store? I haven't seen any of those in my area (South-central PA).

Ok, i3, i5, i7 and i9 are model names, they do NOT necessarily relate to a socket. Rather, it's the features that give it their name. So the 860 is called an i7 because it has hyperthreading, even though it's on the LGA1156 socket. The 920 is also an i7, but on the LGA1366 socket. i3, i5 are only on the LGA1156 (current road map), and i7 will be on both, i9 will only be on LGA1366. i9 are the 6 and 8 core monsters.

Fair enough, I should have made that distinction in my post. This is why I have frowned upon model numbers since launch: they generally don't tell you shit about a CPU; instead, they really only tell you where the manufacturer feels that specific CPU falls on the performance ladder. While most people probably don't care, enthusiasts sure do.

This is the first time in YEARS that Intel has run two sockets together for consumer use. Yes, there was the LGA775/771 for home/server, but they were similar CPUs and not in the same market. There was socket M and socket P for laptops, but I wouldn't consider that on the consumer level, since the socket doesn't matter to anyone but a very small percentage of the laptop user group.

Agreed, and it's bloody annoying, just like model numbers. ; ;

They are claiming all this is to reduce confusion...

...and failing miserably it seems.

Also, the Phemon II's from AMD are quite good, and are very close in performance to the i5/i7's. They are cheaper as well.

This is (mostly) true. A buddy of mine is a hardcore AMD zealot and just recently built a Phenom II machine. It's quick, but overall he spent about the same as I did on my i7 box. What AMD needs now is an Intel killer, not a CPU that's close to Intel in both performance and price.

LGA1156 will never have tri channel. The whole point of having so many fucking pins on the flagship line was for tri channel memory.

Yar, though LGA1156 CPU's do, for some reason, include the PCIe controller on the chip.

[Octavious]

Can you link to this please? Not saying I don't believe you, but I can't find it myself. It's also not really fair to say the market price of the CPU is $199 because one online store manages to sell it at that price.

*edit*

That probably explains it... would Micro Center be predominantly a brick-and-mortar store? I haven't seen any of those in my area (South-central PA).

Well...MicroCenter is kind of like a Fry's Electronics but not as large. The one in Columbus, OH is rather small compared to the one I went to in California, but the Columbus one was out of stock when I was building my rig (see post above). They're not a bad store, I buy random parts from them all the time but i've never bought Cases/Processors from them. I wouldn't call it brick & mortar.

[mootsfox]

Can you link to this please? Not saying I don't believe you, but I can't find it myself. It's also not really fair to say the market price of the CPU is $199 because one online store manages to sell it at that price.

*edit*

That probably explains it... would Micro Center be predominantly a brick-and-mortar store? I haven't seen any of those in my area (South-central PA).

This is (mostly) true. A buddy of mine is a hardcore AMD zealot and just recently built a Phenom II machine. It's quick, but overall he spent about the same as I did on my i7 box. What AMD needs now is an Intel killer, not a CPU that's close to Intel in both performance and price.

I'd like to see something similar to the A64 vs P4 days again I do prefer AMD, but they're offerings have been less than stellar to get me to jump back. Plus my 920 was $129.

And yes, Microcenter is a B&M store, though they have an online shop, but you can't buy the 920 online for oblivious reasons.

There's a location in PA, and NJ, I don't know which would be closer to you.

http://www.microcenter.com/at_the_stores/index.html

[Octavious]

There's a location in PA, and NJ, I don't know which would be closer to you.

Micro Center - Store Locations

Moots, have you ever been to a Fry's Electronics ? D: I was so shocked since it's huge compared to the MC in Columbus. If you've never been, we need a road trip to the one in Illinois, you won't regret it.

[Olo401]

Ok, there is a lot of misinformation about the new core line in this thread.

The 920 has been $229 or $199 (current price) from Micro Center since February. I consider that an available price, since it's there and hasn't gone up. Newegg can sell the fucker for $500 and people would still buy it, that doesn't mean it's the current market price.

It is available yes, but that's an in-store only price. You can't even search up the i7-920 on their website anymore, and the last time I did it was marked the same price to purchase online as Newegg.

Ok, i3, i5, i7 and i9 are model names, they do NOT necessarily relate to a socket. Rather, it's the features that give it their name. So the 860 is called an i7 because it has hyperthreading, even though it's on the LGA1156 socket. The 920 is also an i7, but on the LGA1366 socket. i3, i5 are only on the LGA1156 (current road map), and i7 will be on both, i9 will only be on LGA1366. i9 are the 6 and 8 core monsters.

Errrrrr.. no. ALL the i# series processors support hyperthreading. How else do you think they all have x cores and 2x threads? There are actually many more differences:

i3 : Low-end, replaces the Celeron. 2 Cores, 4 Threads, Turbo Boost NOT available, 4MB shared L3 cache, Socket LGA1156 only.
i5 : Mid-range, replaces the PDC and low-end C2D/C2Q. 2 or 4 Cores, 4 or 8 threads, Turbo Boost available, 4-8MB L3 cache, Socket LGA1156 only.
i7 : High-end, replaces mid to high-end C2Q. 4 cores, 8 threads, Turbo Boost available, Unlocked mX available on Extreme, 8MB Shared L3 Cache, Available on both Socket LGA1156 and 1366, but DDR3 tri-channel capable only on 1366.
i9 : Server processors, replaces the Xeon line. 6 Cores, 12 Threads, Turbo Boost Available. 12MB shared L3 Cache. LGA1366 only.

Also, the 32nm versions of the i5, i7 and i9 will also move the graphics processor from the Northbridge into the CPU package and included enhanced encryption/decryption processing capability.

Source Intel Nehalem (microarchitecture) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and related pages.

[Arkanna]

Errrrrr.. no. ALL the i# series processors support hyperthreading. How else do you think they all have x cores and 2x threads?

Errrrr......no. That is false. See this URL: Introduction - Intel Core i5 Performance Preview | [H]ard|OCP

The Big Differences


Our Intel Core i5-750 processor's biggest difference in performance will likely be related to its lack of HyperThreading. (Other higher models of Core i5 processors are reported to have HT.) Our i5-750 is a 4C/4T unit where our i7-965 is a 4C/8T unit. Our L1, L2, and L3 Caches sizes are identical however. (32KB / 32KB / 256KB / 8MB) Our i5 is the newer "LynnField" core name whereas our older i7 is a "Bloomfield" core. Both cores are based on the Nehalem microarchitecture. Our i5 has dual channel DDR3 where our i7 has triple channel DDR3. Our i5 also has a tremendously lower TDP rating as well as having a new memory controller and PCIe controller that is now on-die. There are some differences as well, but we can save that for next week.

[Stromgarde]

If I wanted an i7 920 with D0 stepping, where would be the best/cheapest place to go for that?

[mootsfox]

If I wanted an i7 920 with D0 stepping, where would be the best/cheapest place to go for that?

Anywhere. I believe the first D0's were in April. You're not going to find a C0 anymore. Earlier batches of the D0's seem to be better. Look for the old, blue box, and not the new box which has a picture of a wafer on it.

Moots, have you ever been to a Fry's Electronics ? D: I was so shocked since it's huge compared to the MC in Columbus. If you've never been, we need a road trip to the one in Illinois, you won't regret it.

I've been in to the one in Oregon (no sales tax!), but we should totally road trip to the Illinois one.

It is available yes, but that's an in-store only price. You can't even search up the i7-920 on their website anymore, and the last time I did it was marked the same price to purchase online as Newegg.


Errrrrr.. no. ALL the i# series processors support hyperthreading. How else do you think they all have x cores and 2x threads? There are actually many more differences:

i3 : Low-end, replaces the Celeron. 2 Cores, 4 Threads, Turbo Boost NOT available, 4MB shared L3 cache, Socket LGA1156 only.
i5 : Mid-range, replaces the PDC and low-end C2D/C2Q. 2 or 4 Cores, 4 or 8 threads, Turbo Boost available, 4-8MB L3 cache, Socket LGA1156 only.
i7 : High-end, replaces mid to high-end C2Q. 4 cores, 8 threads, Turbo Boost available, Unlocked mX available on Extreme, 8MB Shared L3 Cache, Available on both Socket LGA1156 and 1366, but DDR3 tri-channel capable only on 1366.
i9 : Server processors, replaces the Xeon line. 6 Cores, 12 Threads, Turbo Boost Available. 12MB shared L3 Cache. LGA1366 only.

Also, the 32nm versions of the i5, i7 and i9 will also move the graphics processor from the Northbridge into the CPU package and included enhanced encryption/decryption processing capability.

Source Intel Nehalem (microarchitecture) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and related pages.

http://www.microcenter.com/single_pr...uct_id=0302727

[Stromgarde]

That's about the best price I've seen anywhere, online or off, and looking at their store locator, they have a store on Houston's West Loop and more than enough in stock. Thanks for the heads up.

[mootsfox]

That's about the best price I've seen anywhere, online or off, and looking at their store locator, they have a store on Houston's West Loop and more than enough in stock. Thanks for the heads up.

You can ask them to check batches and revisions. I doubt that they would have any C0's left, but you might be able to get an early D0 batch.

[Stromgarde]

Do you have the numbers handy for revision progression? Or is it just C0 > D0 blue box > D0 grey box?

[Solefald]

If I wanted an i7 920 with D0 stepping, where would be the best/cheapest place to go for that?

Why would you get a 920, the 860 will be out very shortly and ought to be much better for overclocking

[Olo401]

Why would you get a 920, the 860 will be out very shortly and ought to be much better for overclocking

If you want, or need, tri-channel DDR3 capability the 860 won't support it.


And that's strange about the 750 not having hyperthreading support. missed that when I was reading the wikipedia entry. That means it's going to be a pure quad-core CPU at a pricepoint just higher than the Q6600 was when they stopped selling it.

[mootsfox]

Do you have the numbers handy for revision progression? Or is it just C0 > D0 blue box > D0 grey box?

C0 and D0 are in the same box, it will say on the label what it is. In about the last two weeks Intel released a new style box for the i7, and they will all be D0s. New box is on the left.

http://www.techpowerup.com/img/09-08-10/2a.jpg

Why would you get a 920, the 860 will be out very shortly and ought to be much better for overclocking

http://jamie-online.com/random-jamz/...6/facepalm.jpg

On what biases? Because it's newer? The TDP is a touch lower, but the die is also much smaller, watts per sq cm are probably similar.

Keep in mind that the 920 hits from 3.8 to 4.6GHz, I doubt the 860 is going to pull 5GHz OCs out it's ass.

And that's strange about the 750 not having hyperthreading support. missed that when I was reading the wikipedia entry. That means it's going to be a pure quad-core CPU at a pricepoint just higher than the Q6600 was when they stopped selling it.

It's all about model lines with Intel, they want to cover EVERY single pricepoint, and overlap everywhere.