What's Better?

[Cream Soda]

What's your str during ws? prior to curry?

[Virg]

Would you mind telling me how much str you have for ws, prior to food.

Subbing WAR 80+55 without Hasso and Food. So 80+72 with Hasso and Red Curry.

[Cream Soda]

Subbing WAR 80+55 without Hasso and Food. So 80+72 with Hasso and Red Curry.

(( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF


I'm interested in this

(( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP)

Hagun 75 DMG, ftp 1.975 w/ gorget.

Since idk what you're figthing I have no way of telling what your fstr is, so we'll count it as 0 (which benefits you, get more increase from the str)

DMG = 75
WSC = 89 vs 94

Adding dmg and wsc, 164 vs 169

Now to add ftp

164 x 1.975 = 323
169 x 1.975 = 333

333/323 = 3.1% increase in WS damage.

At 90% hitrate, pizza is going to be
5/95 = 5.3% increase in ws frequency

Once you add in fstr, dmg increase from the 7 str will lower. Idk how much you get out of the attack but w/ y/g/k's attack bonus, I wouldn't assume much.

[Virg]

(( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF


I'm interested in this

(( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP)

Hagun 75 DMG, ftp 1.975 w/ gorget.

Since idk what you're figthing I have no way of telling what your fstr is, so we'll count it as 0 (which benefits you, get more increase from the str)

DMG = 75
WSC = 89 vs 94

Adding dmg and wsc, 164 vs 169

Now to add ftp

164 x 1.975 = 323
169 x 1.975 = 333

333/323 = 3.1% increase in WS damage.

At 90% hitrate, pizza is going to be
5/95 = 5.3% increase in ws frequency

Once you add in fstr, dmg increase from the 7 str will lower. Idk how much you get out of the attack but w/ y/g/k's attack bonus, I wouldn't assume much.

Thank you for the maths. Could you be bothered to calculate it again for NH? I´d be very much interested in seein the results.

[Cream Soda]

NH?

[Knyghtmayre]

Wait, what? The whole point of Virg's rebuttal is that he likes "his epeen WS damage" and yet you sub WAR on Ixion? <_>

NH is Nidhogg I assume

[Cream Soda]

lol prolly, i've never faught the thing.


Stats on it?

[FailureMidgard]

You seem to not really get my point. Let me try to explain as good as I possibly can given the fact that english is not my first language. You suggest using Turban eating Pizza? Well I´d gain 1% Haste and X accuracy from Pizza. But I´d loose 7str and X attack for my WSs (though attack doesn't really matter that much for Y/G/K which makes pizza even more useless for WSs). So basically my WS dmg would go down by X-dmg since Y/G/K is still a 75% str mod. Given the fact that let´s say NH or Ix for example never takes us any longer than around 15-20 minutes to kill, I can´t see how the 1% Haste from Turban and the X accuracy from Pizza increases my WS frequency by an amount that the total dmg done from WSs with Pizza would equal out or even top the total dmg done using Red Curry.
Hope my point came across.

7*.83*.75=4.3 dmg base...
4.3*1.19*1.975*?2.4?= AT MOST, 24 extra damage per WS.
I have no clue how much support you get normally, I'll assume 1 march and haste for fun.

26% magic haste, 18% gear (byakko, aces, swift, dusk, usu) is 44% haste. Going from 44% haste to 45% haste is ~1.6% increase in your # of WSes. Now you're also gaining a bunch of accuracy, I highly doubt on Nid you are parsing over 85% accuracy, so let's say pizza caps that, you're now looking at another 10.5% increase in WS rate, for a total over over 12%. That means every 8th WS right now, you coulda had 9 with Pizza. But ok, enjoy your extra 24 damage per WS.

Actually, on HNMs, attack goes a very long way for YGK. Ixion/Khim/Cerb not so much (but you're still not at the attack cap with their defense with just Pizza), but Faf/Nid/Tiamat and most other things that have higher defense than merit mobs will require much more attack to hit the cap. If you're subbing THF (and can SA) then it matters much less, though and pizza works fine.

And you had a 77% parsed accuracy on the 1 Tiamat parse I've seen from you. You may not be attack capped, but your accuracy is pathetic on said HNMs.

[Knyghtmayre]

7*.83*.75=4.3 dmg base...
4.3*1.19*1.975*?2.4?= AT MOST, 24 extra damage per WS.
I have no clue how much support you get normally, I'll assume 1 march and haste for fun.

26% magic haste, 18% gear (byakko, aces, swift, dusk, usu) is 44% haste. Going from 44% haste to 45% haste is ~1.6% increase in your # of WSes. Now you're also gaining a bunch of accuracy, I highly doubt on Nid you are parsing over 85% accuracy, so let's say pizza caps that, you're now looking at another 10.5% increase in WS rate, for a total over over 12%. That means every 8th WS right now, you coulda had 9 with Pizza. But ok, enjoy your extra 24 damage per WS.



And you had a 77% parsed accuracy on the 1 Tiamat parse I've seen from you. You may not be attack capped, but your accuracy is pathetic on said HNMs.

82%WS:18%TP ratio in said parse, not to mention a couple whiffs every time Tia flew, so how much does it matter that I parsed 77% accuracy?

[FailureMidgard]

Thank you for the maths. Could you be bothered to calculate it again for NH? I´d be very much interested in seein the results.

His math was assuming a mob with 135 vitality. I'm pretty sure Nidhogg is nowhere near that, your red curry adds even less damage than the math he posted. My bad if I'm wrong and Nid does have 135+ Vit.

This math has nothing to do with merit camps, it has to do with your stats, and your stats alone. Also, I highly doubt you're parsing 90% accuracy.

[FailureMidgard]

82%WS:18%TP ratio in said parse, not to mention a couple whiffs every time Tia flew, so how much does it matter that I parsed 77% accuracy?

On tiamat, not as much, because you had a huge # of WSes from meditate, I assume. Do you think your accuracy will parse much higher on Nid? Because it does matter there. I'm not saying Pizza is all around the best choice...on shit where you're just meditating and WSing, Pizza is a pretty silly choice, but the "meat only" idea from 3 years ago is well, 3 years old, and should be fucking ditched on anything that you actually get to melee.

[Virg]

7*.83*.75=4.3 dmg base...
4.3*1.19*1.975*?2.4?= AT MOST, 24 extra damage per WS.
I have no clue how much support you get normally, I'll assume 1 march and haste for fun.

26% magic haste, 18% gear (byakko, aces, swift, dusk, usu) is 44% haste. Going from 44% haste to 45% haste is ~1.6% increase in your # of WSes. Now you're also gaining a bunch of accuracy, I highly doubt on Nid you are parsing over 85% accuracy, so let's say pizza caps that, you're now looking at another 10.5% increase in WS rate, for a total over over 12%. That means every 8th WS right now, you coulda had 9 with Pizza. But ok, enjoy your extra 24 damage per WS.



And you had a 77% parsed accuracy on the 1 Tiamat parse I've seen from you. You may not be attack capped, but your accuracy is pathetic on said HNMs.

As for the support I usually end up without a BRD so scratch the March.

[Virg]

Wait, what? The whole point of Virg's rebuttal is that he likes "his epeen WS damage" and yet you sub WAR on Ixion? <_>

NH is Nidhogg I assume

/WAR for NH, /THF for Ixion of course.

Also being slow on replies BG keeps not loading for me no idea why.

[FailureMidgard]

As for the support I usually end up without a BRD so scratch the March.

Not going to really impact much at all, ~.3% less or something, so it'll be an 11.8% increase, still nothing your curry will ever compete with.

Turban+Pizza will win on shit like Nid, I can pretty much guarantee you. Can keep your meat on shit you WS only and don't melee.

[Cream Soda]

(( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP) * PDIF


I'm interested in this

(( D + fSTR + WSC) * fTP)

Hagun 75 DMG, ftp 1.975 w/ gorget.

Since idk what you're figthing I have no way of telling what your fstr is, so we'll count it as 0 (which benefits you, get more increase from the str)

DMG = 75
WSC = 89 vs 94

Adding dmg and wsc, 164 vs 169

Now to add ftp

164 x 1.975 = 323
169 x 1.975 = 333

333/323 = 3.1% increase in WS damage.

At 90% hitrate, pizza is going to be
5/95 = 5.3% increase in ws frequency

Once you add in fstr, dmg increase from the 7 str will lower. Idk how much you get out of the attack but w/ y/g/k's attack bonus, I wouldn't assume much.

Minor mistake, i assumed 0 fstr, but didn't add the fstr from the added str

We'll just assume 2 fstr as thats the max you COULD get from 7 str

The 169 turns to 171
171 x 1.975 = 337
337/323 = 4.3% increase

Still less than the 5.2 and also keeping this is assuming 0 fstr to begin with. W/ as much str as sam has you should be packing some fstr, which will lower that 4.3

[Knyghtmayre]

On tiamat, not as much, because you had a huge # of WSes from meditate, I assume. Do you think your accuracy will parse much higher on Nid? Because it does matter there. I'm not saying Pizza is all around the best choice...on shit where you're just meditating and WSing, Pizza is a pretty silly choice, but the "meat only" idea from 3 years ago is well, 3 years old, and should be fucking ditched on anything that you actually get to melee.

Don't know about huge, but most likely at least 1 WS per flight from Med, 2 and if Sekka was up because I'd Frag. I meleed from 100>0 (died once), didn't just sit around as you'd like to assume. Nidhogg feels much more evasive than Tiamat to me, especially with fucking MS. I'm not even sure that there's any amount of accuracy or attack that would make a difference during it. I haven't parsed a Nid ever though, so I can't really attest to actual percentages, but I will say that seeing as how a majority of the damage on Faf/Nid is from Chain>SC, it is far more important that you can get TP quicker/more efficiently than it is to do 30 more damage per WS. Also, I didn't say or imply that MEAT IS THE BEST THING EVAR AND USING PIZZA IS STUPID AN RONGS, so I'm not really sure who that was directed at.

[Cream Soda]

Back to the hades/destroyers thing.

http://i30.tinypic.com/vikvb4.png

Just finished LBC. Went the entire fight w/o using focus, yellow curry

Dest/empty/empty/Tathlum
Usu/Pcc/Brutal/Merman
Usu/usu/ulth/toreador
Cuch/black belt/usu/usu

So, I need 10 acc from that point to cap hitrate, focus will give me 30

-cuch (forager) -7
-pcc (faith torque)-3
-toreador (rajas)-5
30-15
= 15

I make all the swaps and still have a 5 acc surplus WITH destroyers.

Again, hades acc+ does 0 for me during focus up.

The only one I can see that being the case on is Arrapago boss, which I use pizza to begin w/ so again the acc+ isn't gonna do anything.

[Virg]

As I said earlier I will run some parses meat/aces pizza/turban and see.
Thx for the input again.

[FailureMidgard]

Don't know about huge, but most likely at least 1 WS per flight from Med, 2 and if Sekka was up because I'd Frag. I meleed from 100>0 (died once), didn't just sit around as you'd like to assume. Nidhogg feels much more evasive than Tiamat to me, especially with fucking MS. I'm not even sure that there's any amount of accuracy or attack that would make a difference during it. I haven't parsed a Nid ever though, so I can't really attest to actual percentages, but I will say that seeing as how a majority of the damage on Faf/Nid is from Chain>SC, it is far more important that you can get TP quicker/more efficiently than it is to do 30 more damage per WS. Also, I didn't say or imply that MEAT IS THE BEST THING EVAR AND USING PIZZA IS STUPID AN RONGS, so I'm not really sure who that was directed at.

That was directed at this thread/discussion, not you in particular. I was just quoting your parse as a general idea of what accuracy people were at. And yea, I realize you didn't sit around and do nothing, but the 82/18 split was because of time where you meditated, but couldn't melee. Any time that is a reality, pizza becomes worse in comparison to meat.

[pchan]

Back to the hades/destroyers thing.

http://i30.tinypic.com/vikvb4.png

Just finished LBC. Went the entire fight w/o using focus, yellow curry

Dest/empty/empty/Tathlum
Usu/Pcc/Brutal/Merman
Usu/usu/ulth/toreador
Cuch/black belt/usu/usu

So, I need 10 acc from that point to cap hitrate, focus will give me 30

-cuch (forager) -7
-pcc (faith torque)-3
-toreador (rajas)-5
30-15
= 15

I make all the swaps and still have a 5 acc surplus WITH destroyers.

Again, hades acc+ does 0 for me during focus up.

The only one I can see that being the case on is Arrapago boss, which I use pizza to begin w/ so again the acc+ isn't gonna do anything.

I'm intersted too in finding their eva but 91% is what I get with focus averaged... According to several of my parses you need ~415 acc to cap except arrapago where you need 430.