What's Better?

[matt4684]

Well this post got nixed before I got a chance to see alot of responses, but this would be paired with a suppa and brutal. As THF, would haste +4% (rap harness) beat a mirke wardecors with DW and DA? Someone responded that that setup probably would not beat a rap harness, but that a mirke with DW and ACC +10 would trump the rap harness. It seems to me that it would be beneficial to have the mirke with both DW and DA; or is this one of those cases where you need ACC with the Dual Wield to come out ahead? I'm 90% drunk right now, so I can't post 100% coherently right now, so if anyone can get the gist of this question, I would like a response. Thanks!

[Despain]

Heca head or Voyager's salet (or something else) for unstacked Sneak Attack? I hear I want to stay away from the slow+ on unstacked SA.

Personally I'd still go with Heca, just because to me the slow+ really doesn't affect me that much. Just my preference.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Personally I'd still go with Heca, just because to me the slow+ really doesn't affect me that much. Just my preference.

It effects you just as much as it effects everyone else.

[Aero]

Personally I'd still go with Heca, just because to me the slow+ really doesn't affect me that much; Just my performance.

ftfy

[Yugl]

It effects you just as much as it effects everyone else.

BUT HE WS IN HASTE TO MAKE IT CANCEL OUT MAN.

[TybudX]

As THF, would haste +4% (rap harness) beat a mirke wardecors with DW and DA?

Dummy math shows Mirke would be something like 5.8% (3.9 from DW and 1.9 from DA) increase in DoT and WS frequency, not counting base stats. Assuming haste build (Turban, Homam, Swift, Homam, Homam) Rapparee will be a 5.1% increase in DoT and WS frequency. You'd need either Haste spell or Victory March for Rapparee to win. Both pieces need you to be capped on accuracy, otherwise you're better off using an accuracy body.

edit - That said, why get a body for soloing only? It's a marginal improvement in your kill speed as THF, get the acc/DW augments and kick ass on stuff that matters!

[Max™]

Acc/DW is ftw, 7~% hit rate and 3% DW goooo!

[Vodou]

May I see your math because I have it more around 75/80% racc. Any higher and it really starts leaning towards AF+1 more.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...75/Barrage.jpg

1) this is my spreadsheet.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l..._2008/pic1.jpg


2) This is your's with a correction. Your sheet says .8 for skotes (cell B13) but the formula is using .75.

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l...008/pic2-1.jpg

3) Now re-doing the formula with the .8 instead...

http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/l..._2008/pic3.jpg


Skotes wins easily.


They basically tie at 91.75% because skotes is capped and can't keep the advantage as racc variance dwindles. Obviously this ignores the possible benefit of swapping out some other racc gear to replace it with str/ratt gear which might sustain skotes advantage to a new point somewhere between 91.75 and 95.00.

Certainly speaking, if racc is capped, af+1 wins. For epeen potential ofc it wins every time!

[FailureMidgard]

Do people realize that the absence of haste, is in fact, slow?

[Starr]

Depends on the target, I would imagine. The harder it becomes level/def wise, the better Gnadbhod's Helm is going to be compared to Champion's Galea. It's probably going to boil down to swapping them around about where you use Osode vs Haub+1/Byrnie+1 on Gekko.

The math behind this is that 9.5 Attack becomes more valuable as the enemy becomes higher level/higher def. Let's use the ubiquitous Greater Colibri as an example;



Let's say you have 450 attack before in both cases and just call it 10 Attack.

Level 81
cRatio before: 450/322 - (0.05 * 6) = 1.09
cRatio after: 460/322 - (0.05 * 6) = 1.12
Increase: 0.03/1.09 = 2.7%.

Level 82
cRatio before: 450/327 - (0.05 * 7) = 1.02
cRatio after: 460/327 - (0.05 * 7) = 1.05
Increase: 0.03/1.02 = 2.9%.

So yeah, anything above merit level (since you should have much higher than 450 Attack there after buffs) and 9.5attack should be better than 2% WS damage assuming no Attack boost and assuming the 2% WS damage is a simple static +2%.

This is also purely thinking about the Attack, not considering STR's effect on fSTR/WSC which will push Gnadbohd's Helm even more firmly into the lead.

Are you forgetting that YGK WS have capped pDIF practically always?

[Thunder]

Are you forgetting that YGK WS have capped pDIF practically always?

It was about Kaiten, not gekko.

[Aero]

Skotes wins easily.

They basically tie at 91.75% because skotes is capped and can't keep the advantage as racc variance dwindles. Obviously this ignores the possible benefit of swapping out some other racc gear to replace it with str/ratt gear which might sustain skotes advantage to a new point somewhere between 91.75 and 95.00.

Certainly speaking, if racc is capped, af+1 wins. For epeen potential ofc it wins every time!

Yea, I got lazy and copied the code over; simply forgot to change b2's to b13's. After fixing my mistake I basically mirrored your data.

So yea barrage Capping ACC > AF+1. (Although with a COR and Pot-au-feu its quite easy to cap so dont toss those hands!)

[mdkuser]

Well this post got nixed before I got a chance to see alot of responses, but this would be paired with a suppa and brutal. As THF, would haste +4% (rap harness) beat a mirke wardecors with DW and DA? Someone responded that that setup probably would not beat a rap harness, but that a mirke with DW and ACC +10 would trump the rap harness. It seems to me that it would be beneficial to have the mirke with both DW and DA; or is this one of those cases where you need ACC with the Dual Wield to come out ahead? I'm 90% drunk right now, so I can't post 100% coherently right now, so if anyone can get the gist of this question, I would like a response. Thanks!

the maths have been done a few time, the answer is it depends on your acc. If your acc is less than 90% without body peice then mirke, if its above then rapparee. I use rapparee 99% of the time mirke is only situational. If i need accuracy i use pizza, not mirke. ALso for rapparee vs homam, rapparee wins if your accuracy is above 87%ish. Thats assuming double march. for single march the numbers are 92% and 89% respectively.

[mdkuser]

Dummy math shows Mirke would be something like 5.8% (3.9 from DW and 1.9 from DA) increase in DoT and WS frequency, not counting base stats. Assuming haste build (Turban, Homam, Swift, Homam, Homam) Rapparee will be a 5.1% increase in DoT and WS frequency. You'd need either Haste spell or Victory March for Rapparee to win. Both pieces need you to be capped on accuracy, otherwise you're better off using an accuracy body.

edit - That said, why get a body for soloing only? It's a marginal improvement in your kill speed as THF, get the acc/DW augments and kick ass on stuff that matters!

your way of thinking is wrong. first every thf should have rapparee because its the best body piece from lv 50 and on. second its is the best melee body peice for most things thf is allowed to DD on. I do salvage, dynamis, sea, limbus ,farming on thf, only select mobs have too high evasions, and pizza is better than mirke for those. I don't do eiherjar as thf, but im sure acc will not be an issue either.

Mirke is only situational for high evasive mobs on which pizza doesnt work ( lurkers, ninja MMJ) and colibris ( cant use pizza). Third, with double march ( as you should have) and pizza I can get 420+ accuracy on MMJ camps, not including feint and ambush so I really dont see why I would use mirke on those mobs either. I love my 25% haste and 95% accuracy.

[Starr]

colibris ( cant use pizza).

Do you use Crab Sushi on them? I believe it was shown to be unbeatable on KI>THF

pizza I can get 420+ accuracy on MMJ camps,

What gear? I played with FFXIGEAR when it was up and couldn't get anything decent like that but I think I might have been looking at 400 ignoring dagger merits but you are including them cus you have them?

[Despain]

BUT HE WS IN HASTE TO MAKE IT CANCEL OUT MAN.

Cool.

When I did use THF a lot was when I only had 3 pieces of it, which were body, hands, and feet. Body I never used for separating SA at all, and for TA I've always used denali jacket. I won't lose sleep over the fact that I'm SA'ing in 9% Slow.

Now that I'm @4/5 Heca, I hardly use THF at all, since I come to camps mostly as PLD.

So like I said, its just my preference.

[ringthree]

Do people realize that the absence of haste, is in fact, slow?

Awesomer words have never been spoken.

[Killkenny]

So like I said, its just my preference.

This is the "What's Better?" thread not the "Whats your preference?" thread.

One is going to be better than the other and I doubt it bothers anyone here whether it affects you sleeping patterns.

Like with anything that involves haste its going to have a different answer at different haste values, as you have more haste that 9% slow on heca cap will have a larger affect on your attack speed and would therefore require a larger damage boost to justify it. But then again if you are on thief your job isn't to do damage its to be blamed when something doesn't drop.

[TybudX]

your way of thinking is wrong.

I think you read my post wrong. He asked if a Mirke with DW/DA was better than Rapparree, I said yeah, for farming. You know, since you would need zero buffs for it win. And how is suggesting an acc/DW Mirke for his THF wrong?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Shit just got real in the 'What's Better?' thread.