What's Better?

[Meat]

On similarly geared players, with similar play styles, which has a higher potential damage output---Bravura or Apocalypse?

War is loads stronger than drk, the loss of a 6hit build might hurt them, but I cant see an apoc winning

[Max™]

Aurum/Rajas/Brutal is 6 hit for Bravura isn't it?

[Starr]

Isn't Rajas/Brutal/Rose? Assuming RR/KJ 2/3 hits? I forgot it all now

[Thunder]

War is loads stronger than drk, the loss of a 6hit build might hurt them, but I cant see an apoc winning

War doesn't lose 6hit when they get bravura. Unless they blow that proverbial cock.

I also don't agree with apoc drk vs bravura war being as lop-sided a fight as perdu drk vs perdu war.

[Nightfyre]

Aurum/Rajas/Brutal is 6 hit for Bravura isn't it?

True 6 hit, yes. 12 STP + /SAM to true 6hit with 488 delay.

EDIT: If you're taking Aurum off during WS you'd need 3 STP from another source to maintain true 6-hit, will be fine if you land an extra hit on RR/KJ though.

[Max™]

+10% Haste/hasso OR berserk/straight up 6 hit OR 10% da/diabolic eye/desperate blows, vs Haidate/naturally better crit rates/bergressor/DA/warcharge/being able to rock Raging Rush~KJ~Meta as needed, not to maintain haste/option to get hasso while keeping berserk

[Starr]

WAR is shit tons stronger than DRK really but this thread shouldn't be derailed.

[Thunder]

6hit builds for bravura were just discussed on page 100 in Completed Relic/Mythic weapons list thread.

[FailureMidgard]

+10% Haste/hasso OR berserk/straight up 6 hit OR 10% da/diabolic eye/desperate blows, vs Haidate/naturally better crit rates/bergressor/DA/warcharge/being able to rock Raging Rush~KJ~Meta as needed, not to maintain haste/option to get hasso while keeping berserk

Not really +10% haste. 8% haste for a poorly geared drk at best. 5-6% haste for a well geared drk. Not to mention lower WS avg.

[Max™]

Apoc/Pole/_/Bomblet
Ace's/Just/Brutal/Aby
Adaberk/Homam/Blitz/Rajas
Cerb +1/Vbelt/Ares's/Aurum

Or Toreador~Whatever ring + Homam, 16% Haste before Cata.

[Thunder]

Wow.. apoc drk is unanimously weaker than bravura war?

Pretty sure Ruke used averages from an apoc drk's hits and WSs with his amano sam and mathed out apoc beating amano by ~1% under double march and haste. This was before the haste cap was introduced, though.

[[Vax]]

This specific Rindomaru v. Hagun. I made this post on KI and never really got a comparison.

Spoiler: show

Relying on a +15STP Rindo, you can get you can get a 5 hit build without too much trouble. You can WS in your normal WS build (Rajas/merits included..) as long as you have Hachiman Sune-Ate in there (Or HQ for no STR loss).

The build would look like this: http://www.ffxiah.co...s.php?id=106305
(Rose Strap fucks with the #'s at the bottom, so I left it out. You would be using it. It comes out to +32STP, add the 15 hidden on Rindomaru and 35 from JT and get +82 total)

Your base TP is 11.5 from a 450 delay GK. Add the +82 total STP and you get 20.93STP per swing.
As long as your weaponskill produces 16.4 or more TP, then you will have 100% TP in 4 swings after that.

16.4 + 20.9 + 20.9 + 20.9 + 20.9 = 100.

In order to get 16.4TP on your WS, you will need nothing more than the Rindomaru and your merits...


Can a 5 hit build GK with 77 base D and +5% WSD and possibly +6ACC beat a Hagun? If I recall, Futsuno does. How does this compare? ><

[Thunder]

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/78831...aru-worth.html

Is a pretty good thread, but it sort of degrades into people really just making up excuses and no real proof for hagun being superior towards the end.

[FailureMidgard]

Apoc/Pole/_/Bomblet
Ace's/Just/Brutal/Aby
Adaberk/Homam/Blitz/Rajas
Cerb +1/Vbelt/Ares's/Aurum

Or Toreador~Whatever ring + Homam, 16% Haste before Cata.

And yet you're comparing to the warrior...I fully understand you can drop haste to not go past cap, I'm saying that an apoc drk doesn't have 10% haste over anyone. Not over a bravura war, and not over a non apoc drk.

[[Vax]]

That thread really didn't answer my specific question. I don't really know the math for putting a weapon v. another weapon.

This rindomaru and gear set v.s. a Hagun replacing the Hachiman Kote with dusk gloves (+1) and rose with pole or sword depending on rajas or 2nd toreador.

[Drace]

For Dancing Edge/ Evis - Fire Bomblet vs. Black Tathlum (dex from tathlum pushes total to 120) so its 1 DEX vs. 1 ACC, 2 ATT

[Tulun]

Wow.. apoc drk is unanimously weaker than bravura war?

Pretty sure Ruke used averages from an apoc drk's hits and WSs with his amano sam and mathed out apoc beating amano by ~1% under double march and haste. This was before the haste cap was introduced, though.

With extremely expensive gear (like HQ unicorn), war can approach 25% equipment haste... so, DRK doesn't really have a haste advantage...

[Thunder]

With extremely expensive gear (like HQ unicorn), war can approach 25% equipment haste... so, DRK doesn't really have a haste advantage...

It does over sam; I was talking about ruke's apoc vs amano testing. Just using that as a point of reference when comparing apoc to bravura seeing as how sam is pretty much toe to toe with war.

[Marokko]

The introduction of rose Strap got me thinking about mixing up my 6hit build on sam. Would White Tathlum and rose strap in the place of hachiman kote win? This allows you to wear dusk, but takes away pole grip and black tathlum or, for this argument, tiphia sting. Looking at 2% DA 2 acc 4 str vs 3% haste 5 att.

I believe there may be enough stp above 11 to allow the user to ws w/ only rajas and brutal for stp. Imo it looks like White Tathlum wins, but I may have overlooked something. Ofcourse this argument means nothing if you have Usukane Sune-ate, but it's interesting nonetheless.

[Cream Soda]

Ecphoria ring rose strap