What's Better?

[Killkenny]

We typically only get 1 BRD or 1 COR in Einherjar. Obviously you'd prefer the BRD, and as such you'd want x2 March as your songs. So I don't really get to use /DRG as much as I'd like, despite having all of the gearsets for it. =(

Whm, Cor, Brd, 3x DD is what made w3 winnable with an almost 100% rate with 18-24 people. Other party setups were lacking in support so DDs had to use seigan and be defensive or they had too little DD, both would result in timeouts on boss. That said, I don't actually use /drg for Ein though as I am main assist and voke is too useful for controlling targets initially.

[Kouu]

We win Einherjar with a success rate of 100% with WHM BRD DD x4 or WHM BRD (Support Job - BRD COR or DNC) DD x3. It varies based on how many show but we typically get attendance in the mid or low 20s. For Tier 1 we just use a WAR as our assist, and for T2 and 3 we bring a PLD.

[mdkuser]

Against Greater Colibri a very good Rindomaru can beat a Hagun, but as defensive stats of mobs increase the Hagun will become increasingly better.

I don't understand. unless you mean that when fighting a higher level mob you only meditate, in which case hagun will win. rindo just need 15+ stp and +2%WS to beat hagun if i recall.

[[Vax]]

I don't understand. unless you mean that when fighting a higher level mob you only meditate, in which case hagun will win. rindo just need 15+ stp and +2%WS to beat hagun if i recall.

I posted the build you'd need to get a really good 5 hit going.

What are you recalling that says that +2% WSD and a 5 hit will beat a hagun geared with 3~4% more haste for tp, 6 hit, TP bonus for ws and 1 more str on WS?

[mdkuser]

15 stp is the minimum stp so that you *do not* lose haste to hagun. requires usubody feet white thaltum etc tho.

[ringthree]

I don't understand. unless you mean that when fighting a higher level mob you only meditate, in which case hagun will win. rindo just need 15+ stp and +2%WS to beat hagun if i recall.

Well, if you only recall what you said then yes... /rolleyes.

As defense increases and fSTR decreases the TP modifier from the Hagun puts Hagun further and further ahead.

At no point has anyone ever disputed that.

Vax, he is talking about the Rindomaru thread.

[mdkuser]

As defense increases and fSTR decreases the TP modifier from the Hagun puts Hagun further and further ahead.

I dont see why it would favour hagun over rindomaru. wether you fight a hnm or a wild rabit rindomaru will win.

[ringthree]

I dont see why it would favour hagun over rindomaru. wether you fight a hnm or a wild rabit rindomaru will win.

I have no idea why I even respond to you...

There was a whole thread of math about the Rindomaru that was even relinked on this page. I am sure you will ignore it now just like you ignored it then.

[[Vax]]

I don't see how you can get a consistant 5 hit build without dropping your hands slot or loosing a lot of STR for your WS build and a lot of ACC for your TP build. Can you post gear links for the 2 respective sets for TP/WS on a 15STP rindo for 5 hit?

I know Hagun will be king when it comes to harder monsters, I was really just trying to find if a Rindomaru could be more effective for events like Limbus, Einherjar (non bosses), Salvage once fully geared, sea farming, dynamis.. etc (If you aren't in the mood for polearm).

[Thunder]

Actually, that is not the case at all. Against Greater Colibri a very good Rindomaru can beat a Hagun, but as defensive stats of mobs increase the Hagun will become increasingly better. There are also a slew of other factors where the Hagun benefits, like Meditate, time between 100TP and WS, mix-and-match gear sets.

You should really read the thread instead of listening to statements based on an agenda.

I don't know what you mean by an agenda, but I read the thread and both sides had solid math backing it up, with yes, factors like meditate, etc, etc being touched upon.. and towards the end it just kind of degraded into nothing but outlandish claims and reasons why hagun is better still.

Not saying they're correct or wrong.. just warning the guy who I posted that thread for that the end of the thread was sorta shitty in terms of rindo vs hagun.

[pchan]

I have no idea why I even respond to you...

There was a whole thread of math about the Rindomaru that was even relinked on this page. I am sure you will ignore it now just like you ignored it then.

I remember the math and you were pretty ridiculous in that one, claiming that hagun still win following the bandwagon, even though math clearly showed which is better. Destroyers/Hades sainti rindo/Hagun same debate.

[[Vax]]

Re-reading that Rindomaru thread was a giant waste of time. Just sayin.

[ringthree]

I don't see how you can get a consistant 5 hit build without dropping your hands slot or loosing a lot of STR for your WS build and a lot of ACC for your TP build. Can you post gear links for the 2 respective sets for TP/WS on a 15STP rindo for 5 hit?

I know Hagun will be king when it comes to harder monsters, I was really just trying to find if a Rindomaru could be more effective for events like Limbus, Einherjar (non bosses), Salvage once fully geared, sea farming, dynamis.. etc (If you aren't in the mood for polearm).

I did post the sets that I used in that Rindomaru thread, but they were on FFXIgear.com which is down right now. I basically tried to get to very similar sets to have a good comparison. In the end I was able to maintain full Usukane with a bunch of other changes, but yes you are basically right, you will end up losing stats to make Rindomaru work even up to Store TP +17.

[ringthree]

I don't know what you mean by an agenda, but I read the thread and both sides had solid math backing it up, with yes, factors like meditate, etc, etc being touched upon.. and towards the end it just kind of degraded into nothing but outlandish claims and reasons why hagun is better still.

Not saying they're correct or wrong.. just warning the guy who I posted that thread for that the end of the thread was sorta shitty in terms of rindo vs hagun.

What outlandish claims about the reason Hagun was still better are you referring to? The discussion degraded when mdkuser and pchan showed up. Just like what is happening now.

[ringthree]

I remember the math and you were pretty ridiculous in that one, claiming that hagun still win following the bandwagon, even though math clearly showed which is better. Destroyers/Hades sainti rindo/Hagun same debate.

Actually, I was the first to post any math at all in that thread. You and mdkuser showed up three pages later and started calling people idiots because they didn't agree with you. Just like you do every single time you are presented with information that doesn't agree with your conclusions.

At some point, when you start making Neosutra look calm and rational you have to figure out that you have a problem.

[Thunder]

What outlandish claims about the reason Hagun was still better are you referring to? The discussion degraded when mdkuser and pchan showed up. Just like what is happening now.

Uh, things like:

whatever

Now best possible augmented Rindomaru is +17 STP, +4 Accuracy and +5% bonus damage to WS. It will beat Hagun on anything that matters.

But do you think it is easier to get this than Hagun ?
NO.

And then the usu discussion.. then came "how easy is hagun to get compared to the other weapons other jobs have to get?" Polearm shit, too.

Your math was nitpicked to death in that thread, too. I, personally, was really dissapointed Failure didn't post more often in the thread._.

Also, the thread didn't seem complete, do you know what I mean? If someone could incorporate the meditate stuff it'd be fantastic because I found myself just kind of eyeballing the results and saying, "well if the damage gap is only this big.. extra tp from med could close it.."

[ringthree]

Uh, things like:

And then the usu discussion.. then came "how easy is hagun to get compared to the other weapons other jobs have to get?" Polearm shit, too.

Your math was nitpicked to death in that thread, too. I, personally, was really dissapointed Failure didn't post more often in the thread._.

Also, the thread didn't seem complete, do you know what I mean? If someone could incorporate the meditate stuff it'd be fantastic because I found myself just kind of eyeballing the results and saying, "well if the damage gap is only this big.. extra tp from med could close it.."

None of that effected the math at hand, because the Rindomaru I used in my example was already better than what had been seen and I discussed that in my first post.

My math was mostly ignored, really. There was far more criticism of the gear sets that I used in my example than anything else. And like I said multiple times, a mix-and-match gear set would only increasingly favor Hagun. No one looked at my math and said there was anything wrong with it. They just looked at it and decided it was wrong because it didn't agree with what they wanted to believe.

I actually did cover meditate too, but didn't feel like continuing the discussion with people that had already made up their mind on the issue before even looking at the math. Meditiate would at best be equal but in reality every time it was used it would save Hagun a swing getting to 100TP which it would not do for Rindomaru.

[Seraph]

[
Stuff

Ugh, if you make me go do those new fey fights and force me to augment some P.O.S. PLD or RDM sword for inventory -1 I am going to be pissed. >_>

[Thunder]

Ugh, if you make me go do those new fey fights and force me to augment some P.O.S. PLD or RDM sword for inventory -1 I am going to be pissed. >_>

Nah, no usu body so I wont even try for a rindo.

[Seraph]

Nah, no usu body so I wont even try for a rindo.

Not helping with Salvage saves me again!