What's Better?

[Starr]

It is on allakhazam somewhere, I was shocked too but he did post math and said something like "you have to be over 700 ranged attack for Bucaneer's to beat Scouts", he doesn't seem to post here anymore though so guess we won't get an answer from him.

[DIABEETUS]

Hades+1 versus Destroyers for MNK?

No Usukane, current TP setup is
tiphia
turban/faith torque/brutal/mermans
togi/noritsune/toreador/toreador
cuchulain/blackbelt/bhaidate/fumas

If we were to consider Usukane, would there be a difference in weapon choice? What's the -ideal- mnk setup, let's say for merit purposes? Obviously not taking into consideration shenlong's or spharai. Any input is appreciated, thanks.

[Talint]

It is on allakhazam somewhere, I was shocked too but he did post math and said something like "you have to be over 700 ranged attack for Bucaneer's to beat Scouts", he doesn't seem to post here anymore though so guess we won't get an answer from him.

Interesting, since the +4STR serves as +2R.Attack too, making the difference even less negligible.

700 R.Attack is attainable I think, if you're buffed and /WAR for zerk. It's tough, but doable... Kind of don't get why R.Attack has to be a hidden stat, but whatever.

Anyway, no Scout's for me atm, so Buc Belt will just have to do for now.

[Wulfgang]

Starr is right, I posted a link in like the last "What's Better" thread.

EDIT: Found it.

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...94308161442102

Is a good link about Scout's vs. Buccaneer's; VZX's conclusion is that you need roughly like 700 RATK for Buccaneer's to be better. I get lost in the math though and the Enmity -4 is not considered in the discussion, I just use Bucc's.

I should add that I also use Buccaneer's because I don't have Scout's lol.

[Cream Soda]

Hades+1 versus Destroyers for MNK?

No Usukane, current TP setup is
tiphia
turban/faith torque/brutal/mermans
togi/noritsune/toreador/toreador
cuchulain/blackbelt/bhaidate/fumas

If we were to consider Usukane, would there be a difference in weapon choice? What's the -ideal- mnk setup, let's say for merit purposes? Obviously not taking into consideration shenlong's or spharai. Any input is appreciated, thanks.

Situational based on acc

[Omnipotent]

Zerg Haste setup atm with Ridill.

W.turban = 5
Dusk gloves = 3
V belt = 6
Homanfeet/legs/ =6
Wyvern earring = 5

Puts me @ 25% with a 1 handed weapon. Arguable the research is haste cape is somewhere in the 25.?? mark. Would Blitz Ring be better for that .5ish haste or would Bloodbead Ring? Putting me at 26% Haste. Note: I am Galka.

[ringthree]

Homam Corazza is also worth taking into consideration if you don't have problems with hitting above 0 on the mob, as stats compared to hauby+1 are:

+28 hp +28 mp +3 def +5 agi +20 eva +1% TA vs -6 dex(critrate only) -6 str -12 attack

I'd say ares if you don't have a proper tank party and need the mp, avalon if a mob has access to instant magic damage(obviously spells or slow tp moves don't matter as you can macro), and homam/hauby+1 otherwise. I really hope starr was trolling about tping in hydrabert. I also want to hope ringthree was trolling, but I think he's really just that dumb by this point.

The option I was providing was completely legitimate and didn't ignore the question like you did.

What is the best body to TP in and maintain enmity? It would be a high enmity body and using Dorado Sushi. No TP body is going to give you even close to the accuracy that Dorado Sushi provides, and Dorado Sushi and an enmity body combined is going to maintain a much higher amount of enmity than trying to hit with a Homam body. You could always use a Homam body with Dorado Sushi too, but that would not be maximizing enmity.

As always, it depends on what you are fighting and the situation. But what food would you use instead? If you are using tank food in a situation where you are worrying about a TP build then you might want to reconsider your gear/food priorities.

[Thorny]

Zerg Haste setup atm with Ridill.

W.turban = 5
Dusk gloves = 3
V belt = 6
Homanfeet/legs/ =6
Wyvern earring = 5

Puts me @ 25% with a 1 handed weapon. Arguable the research is haste cape is somewhere in the 25.?? mark. Would Blitz Ring be better for that .5ish haste or would Bloodbead Ring? Putting me at 26% Haste. Note: I am Galka.

Use bloodbead and put the blitz gil toward a real zerg weapon.

[Omnipotent]

Use bloodbead and put the blitz gil toward a real zerg weapon.

I use the blitz on my DRG and WAR too

[Valisk]

Zerg Haste setup atm with Ridill.

W.turban = 5
Dusk gloves = 3
V belt = 6
Homanfeet/legs/ =6
Wyvern earring = 5

Puts me @ 25% with a 1 handed weapon. Arguable the research is haste cape is somewhere in the 25.?? mark. Would Blitz Ring be better for that .5ish haste or would Bloodbead Ring? Putting me at 26% Haste. Note: I am Galka.

How about Wyvern Targe? Give up 25/30 HP in shield slot as opposed to 50 on Ring.

Edit: But to answer your question specifically, I recall a thread saying that .6 Haste is more beneficial than 50 HP.

[Omnipotent]

How about Wyvern Targe? Give up 25/30 HP in shield slot as opposed to 50 on Ring.

Edit: But to answer your question specifically, I recall a thread saying that .6 Haste is more beneficial than 50 HP.

Wyvern targes are harder to find than you could possible imagine if you have never looked for one. I would love a targe, but I cannot find 1 to save my life. Also 0/6 on BCNM. Only 1's I see are 1M+ in bazaars. K cool, blitz it is.

[Raen Ryong]

The option I was providing was completely legitimate and didn't ignore the question like you did.

What is the best body to TP in and maintain enmity? It would be a high enmity body and using Dorado Sushi. No TP body is going to give you even close to the accuracy that Dorado Sushi provides, and Dorado Sushi and an enmity body combined is going to maintain a much higher amount of enmity than trying to hit with a Homam body. You could always use a Homam body with Dorado Sushi too, but that would not be maximizing enmity.

As always, it depends on what you are fighting and the situation. But what food would you use instead? If you are using tank food in a situation where you are worrying about a TP build then you might want to reconsider your gear/food priorities.

Enmity is negligable for hitting with TP though... you'll get far more overall enmity from the extra accuracy and hence landing more Atonements. You should be macroing in an enmity body for enmity actions and then TPing in a TP body so it's irrelevant <_<

EDIT: Accuracy body with accuracy food is the way to go if you're Atonement spamming on HNM, macroing in an enmity body as appropriate.

[Wulfgang]

God the wyvern targe discussion is hilarious. For such a niche ass item, it took me for fucking ever to find one. I actually still have it even though I sold my club a month ago for Apoc and I don't think I'd ever part with the targe because of what a pain in the ass it was to find.

[Ragnell]

At what level should I start Using a WS set? I wanted to start now since I just got Penta Thrust, I'm currently 52 Drg, and what would I start using or should buy right now.

[Nightfyre]

Obligatory: Ares + Madrigal is more ACC than any ACC body + Ballad and hits much harder for more TE generated.

Now, outside of Ares:

Hydrabert v Avalon v Hauby +1/Homam, from an accuracy-enmity standpoint only. Hauby +1 and Homam have additional advantages through STR and Triple Attack of course.

10 ACC 9 Enmity v 13 ACC 3 Enmity v 15 ACC

Consider an arbitrary PLD. Said Paladin idles in 11 non-body Enmity including merits when ACC is uncapped, which is what this will focus on. (Homam Manopolas, Terror Shield, merits)

At 60% hitrate:
Hydrabert: 5% hitrate + 8.1% increase in TE from the +9 Enmity = 8.3 + 8.1 = 16.4% increase in TE
Avalon: 6.5% hitrate + 2.7% TE boost = 10.8 + 2.7 = 13.5% increase in TE
Hauby +1/Homam: 7.5% Hitrate = 12.5% increase in TE

80%:
Hydrabert: 6.25 + 8.1 = 14.35%
Avalon: 8.13 + 2.7 = 10.83%
Hauby+1/Homam: 9.38%

Factor the additional DD stats back in and considering TE generation only, I'd say Hydrabert wins out with the others moving around depending on hitrate and whether Hauby +1 eliminates some hits for 0.

Make your case for factors like idle HP and defense as you will.

[Max™]

<= still pissed he didn't splurge 50k on a wyvern target he saw years ago before they went up to neveronsale/250~300k.

Again, credit to Kirschy for the mindnumbing amount of tests he did on this, but it isn't so much that it's .6% haste.

Haste is apparently tallied in 1024th's (it MAY be finer cuts, but he said you'd need like a 30 minute recast to tell or some shit), and it takes 256/1024 to cap gear haste.

The game displays the first two digits of the values, so 100% haste wouldn't actually be the full infinite attack speed we joke about, that would hit at 102%~103%, etc, etc, etc...

Anyway, long story short, it's 26% haste to hit the full 256/1024 value.

Also: Swap in life belt/gothic hands~feet (seriously, badass lowbie gear like a muhfucka, Str +3 Dex +3 Att +5 set, with ice spikes, and 4 enmity + awesome model? Sign me up!)/valk mask/acc rings/acc hands/acc body/etc for Penta at those levels, if you aren't already Tping in those items.

[DIABEETUS]

Situational based on acc

Care to elaborate? Ideal gear sets for lowacc vs highacc mobs? Ideal merit gear? Focus up, focus down?

[Raen Ryong]

Body Comparisons

Is that purely the enmity generated during melee phase or taking into account the extra TP granted by some bodies and then using that TP to produce more Atonements?

I just can't see any body beating Homam/Hauby+1 in the long run using those criteria <_<

[Nightfyre]

Is that purely the enmity generated during melee phase or taking into account the extra TP granted by some bodies and then using that TP to produce more Atonements?

I just can't see any body beating Homam/Hauby+1 in the long run using those criteria <_<

Higher hitrate translates directly into higher WS frequency and thus more enmity from Atonement spam, so that's accounted for unless I'm being incompetent at math again. Wouldn't surprise me, I've been sick for a week and can't quite think straight. Bear in mind I'm being lazy and not accounting for Triple Attack or the STR and Attack from Hauby +1, which would affect the order of the latter 3 but wouldn't bring Hauby +1 or Homam Corazza ahead of Hydra Haubert.

[Raen Ryong]

Oh, I appreciate that, it's just... how do I explain it?

Atonement produces SO much more enmity than normal hits that the extra increase in frequency should outweigh the slight increase in enmity generated by melee.

EDIT: I know a better way of explaining it!

It's like; say that TP enmity/Atonement damage ratio is 0.1:1, that means the enmity generated by TP damage gets hit by a 0.1 modifier because relatively, it's producing so very little.

Ratio used for illustration purposes; not to be taken literally <_<