What's Better?

[pchan]

That said when Goliard drops I will re work spellcast to get swift/goliard/turban in for the end.

It won't necessarily be a better recast (and most of the time it's the same value), due the way haste and fast cast are implemented. The formula is

(1-haste)*base_recast truncated to the first 10 th
Then multiply this by (1-fast_recast) and floor the value

In the exemple of stoneskin (30 sec recast) :

setup A : turban+goliard+swift+dusk gloves+nashira legs+duskfeet haste(spell) = 35% (351/1024)
trait(10%) loquacious (1%)=11% (112/1024)

17 sec recast

Setup B : swift+dusk gloves+nashira legs+dusk feet haste(spell) = 26% haste (261/1024)
trait AF1 chapeau AF2 body loquacious (21%, 214/1024)

17 sec recast

[FailureMidgard]

Wouldn't it be better to start casting in Chapeau end it in turban, or start and end it in chapeau I mean it's such a long spell to cast , +fastcast probably helps, and Turban and Chapeau are fairly close on the recast timers anyways.

While this is true from a recast point of view. I use this set, to cast in, I don't macro in turban or goliard body (turban due to space and goliard as it won't drop for me 0/15+ atm).

In 90% of situations a RDM is casting stoneskin (outside solo/tanking) it is more important they cast the spell faster, so they can get on with doing other things, than having minimized recasts, in imo.

That said when Goliard drops I will re work spellcast to get swift/goliard/turban in for the end.

Durr, 2 fastcast pieces precast on any longer cast spells. And after that...take them off?

[Argettio]

Durr, 2 fastcast pieces precast on any longer cast spells. And after that...take them off?

And my point is... don't take them off.

As my haste build isn't complete I prefer a marginal decrease in cast time (from full timing fastcast) to marginally decreased recast timers (by macroing haste at the end).

As at least 50% of the time I cast stoneskin, I want to cast something straight afterwards, so casting it faster is a direct improvement in my performance.
Whereas I only have wait for the stoneskin recast about 5% of the time (a lot of the time Stoneskin wears off).

And as Pchan pointed out, the difference in recast is minor/non-existent depending on gear and buffs.

NB. assuming normal RDM activities, not soloing or tanking.

[FailureMidgard]

And my point is... don't take them off.

As my haste build isn't complete I prefer a marginal decrease in cast time (from full timing fastcast) to marginally decreased recast timers (by macroing haste at the end).

As at least 50% of the time I cast stoneskin, I want to cast something straight afterwards, so casting it faster is a direct improvement in my performance.
Whereas I only have wait for the stoneskin recast about 5% of the time (a lot of the time Stoneskin wears off).

And as Pchan pointed out, the difference in recast is minor/non-existent depending on gear and buffs.

NB. assuming normal RDM activities, not soloing or tanking.

Or take them off...then put fastcast back on? I'm confused how you think it's any fucking faster to do it your way.

Also, pchan decided to pick 1 set of numbers that works for him. If you (or he) had any grasp on the math, a single example wouldn't be used as a reason to not use haste.

Fact: Turban+Goliard reduces recast more.
Fact: It doesn't slow your casting down -at all- to use them.
I don't see why you wouldn't use them.

But, using Pchans -exact same haste/fastcast values- turban+goliard takes 1 FULL SECOND off Ni, just does nothing for Ichi. You be the judge I guess....I still say the opportunity cost of using Turban+Goliard is 0, so there's absolutely no reason to not do it.

[pchan]

Also, pchan decided to pick 1 set of numbers that works for him. If you (or he) had any grasp on the math, a single example wouldn't be used as a reason to not use haste.

No I did not, AF1 head + AF2 body is almost always the exact same recast value. Saying that Turban + Goliard is better for recast because you find a better value for (1-fastcast)*(1-haste) is just plainly wrong because that's not how recast value are calculated. It depends on the gear you have access to. I just gave an exemple of standart RDM gear.

But, using Pchans -exact same haste/fastcast values- turban+goliard takes 1 FULL SECOND off Ni, just does nothing for Ichi.

This is wrong. Both setup give 26 seconds recast on :NI. The only time it changes is if you have speed belt / dusk+1 or some combination of this.


Conclusion : Fast cast gear is better for stoneskin/ichi/Ni generally and "generally" becomes "always" if you tank since you'll want march.

[Argettio]

Or take them off...then put fastcast back on? I'm confused how you think it's any fucking faster to do it your way.

Also, pchan decided to pick 1 set of numbers that works for him. If you (or he) had any grasp on the math, a single example wouldn't be used as a reason to not use haste.

Fact: Turban+Goliard reduces recast more.
Fact: It doesn't slow your casting down -at all- to use them.
I don't see why you wouldn't use them.

But, using Pchans -exact same haste/fastcast values- turban+goliard takes 1 FULL SECOND off Ni, just does nothing for Ichi. You be the judge I guess....I still say the opportunity cost of using Turban+Goliard is 0, so there's absolutely no reason to not do it.

I am well aware of Pchan's ability to pick situations that back up his clams and/or troll.

As I said in my first post on the mater, I don't have goliard body. So there is 0 opportunity for me to use Turban + Goliard.

And I also said that when I do get Goiliard I will change the my xml to do it.

So lets ignore Pchan and take me as an example (my set was posted earlier)

In my current situation I have:
20 fastcast (AF and AF2)
28 hate (Dusk hands and spell)
= 19.68 seconds.

If I used turban that would be@
15 fastcast (AF2)
33 haste (Dusk hand, spell and Turban)
= 19.635 seconds

You are right, haste is faster than fastcast, but unless you have a decent haste build (I would need goliard body and enough MND from earrings to use swift belt) the difference is marginal.

I did this very calculation when building my stoneskin set and decided that the 0,05 second difference was not worth it, and I may as well leave my turban at home and gain 1 inventory space.

And yes I am working on better earrings so I can use swift belt, but being a mithra puts me on the back foot when it comes to capping stoneskin.

Edit:

Saying that Turban + Goliard is better for recast because you find a better value for (1-fastcast)*(1-haste) is just plainly wrong because that's not how recast value are calculated.

So how is it calculated?

[Limlight]

wow stoneskin wars, interesting.

[FailureMidgard]

No I did not, AF1 head + AF2 body is almost always the exact same recast value. Saying that Turban + Goliard is better for recast because you find a better value for (1-fastcast)*(1-haste) is just plainly wrong because that's not how recast value are calculated. It depends on the gear you have access to. I just gave an exemple of standart RDM gear.

AF1+2 will never be better. Turban+Goliard sometimes is better. There is 0 advantage to AF1+1, why use it?

This is wrong. Both setup give 26 seconds recast on :NI. The only time it changes is if you have speed belt / dusk+1 or some combination of this.


Conclusion : Fast cast gear is better for stoneskin/ichi/Ni generally and "generally" becomes "always" if you tank since you'll want march.

I guess I just used the percentage values and not the /1024s, in any case, there are values where it is better, and it can happen at higher or lower haste values just due to rounding and breaking a point where the rounding changes.

Finally, your conclusion makes no sense, which is typical for you. March will increase the gap, and if your support cant deal with you blinking, then replace them, why the fuck would you not start in fastcast and end in haste?

[Argettio]

wow stoneskin wars, interesting.

I am not war-ing, just explaining my choices based on the gear and limitations I have. If some one proves my choices wrong then I will happy change my xml.

Failure is right assuming all the right gear, but sadly I am not fortunate enough to have all the right gear yet.

[pchan]

I am well aware of Pchan's ability to pick situations that back up his clams and/or troll.

As I said in my first post on the mater, I don't have goliard body. So there is 0 opportunity for me to use Turban + Goliard.

And I also said that when I do get Goiliard I will change the my xml to do it.

So lets ignore Pchan and take me as an example (my set was posted earlier)

In my current situation I have:
20 fastcast (AF and AF2)
28 hate (Dusk hands and spell)
= 19.68 seconds.

If I used turban that would be@
15 fastcast (AF2)
33 haste (Dusk hand, spell and Turban)
= 19.635 seconds

You are right, haste is faster than fastcast, but unless you have a decent haste build (I would need goliard body and enough MND from earrings to use swift belt) the difference is marginal.

I did this very calculation when building my stoneskin set and decided that the 0,05 second difference was not worth it, and I may as well leave my turban at home and gain 1 inventory space.

And yes I am working on better earrings so I can use swift belt, but being a mithra puts me on the back foot when it comes to capping stoneskin.

Edit:


So how is it calculated?

I explained that one post above.

floor( (1-fast cast) * floor( (1-haste)*recast*10)/10 )

fast cast and haste are expressed in /1024

based on info found here and here

[Meat]

Feel stupid for asking this but dusk gloves +1 or homam hands for pld tp

[Starr]

I'm sure it depends on food, Madrigals or Marches (relevant outside buffs), other gear etc just like every other thing in the game but the vast majority of the time it will be Dusk+1.

[Meat]

<head>Walahra Turban</head>
<neck>Fortitude Torque</neck>
<lear>Ethereal Earring</lear>
<rear>Brutal Earring</rear>
<body>Ares's Cuirass</body>
<hands>Dusk Gloves +1</hands>
<lring>Toreador's Ring</lring>
<rring>blitz Ring</rring>
<back>Cerb. Mantle +1</back>
<waist>Velocious Belt</waist>
<legs>Homam Cosciales</legs>
<feet>Homam Gambieras</feet>
</set>

Squid sushi, generally songs are march 2 and ballad 2, on the off chance i get a cor or a 2nd brd i'll usually get. 2x march and hunter\evokers or 2x march\mad\ballad2

[Starr]

I'm not one to do huge math on stuff like that but I'm sure someone will soon, I will say though that I don't understand why you would TP in Defending Ring.

[Meat]

opps, that should be rajah's

[Starr]

You should change your neck to Peacock Charm too and Haubergeon+1 is better without Madrigals as far as I have read on the almighty BG. I'd probably use Cuchulain's Mantle and Diabolos Earring too, but I am no Paladin so don't quote me on that.

[Tsuko_Asura]

What Starr said, with the exception of Suppa instead of Diabolos if applicable.

[FailureMidgard]

I'm unsure on the evasion of HNMish stuff, but Dusk Gloves+1 + Toreador > Homam + Blitz, always.

Furthermore, Dusk Gloves +1 + PCC (Ancient?) is gaining 1 haste and losing 1 attack vs Fortitude+Homam.

I'd say your goal should be to gain accuracy in other slots (neck, back as stated) and use Dusk Gloves, but if you want an exact answer, you should parse a few fights and check what your accuracy is parsing at.

[Diogi]

For Corsair

Peacemaker slugshot or Martial detonator... non-hnm mobs.

[Starr]

Why WOULDN'T you use Martial Gun for Slug Shot? I use Slug Shot at Greater Colibri and for Mamools and events (Limbus, Dynamis Cities) it depends on mob and how I feel, obviously Slug Shot for Sea Puks, Mamool Ja's Wyvern etc for example and Detonator on Lurkers.