What's Better?

[pchan]

Your maths includes sections for focus being up and focus being down...

Do I need to quote you to show you?



My point is, Focus, Aggressor and Diabolic Eye are limited to 3 jobs. And to pick MNK as your example job is not relevant to everyone. Most jobs have to TP in static accuracy, so need their gear to get them capped (or close to) and can't rely on a JA to 'fix' it 60% of the time.

SAM for example don't really give a crap about their DoT, their only interest is WS frequency (due to the different TP/WS damage ratio) and won't be WSing in an ACC or ATT gear. Therefore a 0.5% increase in the number of WS is probably better than 0.85% Melee DoT in that situation.

This is why the TP/WS ratio needs to be accounted for and why MNK is an 'odd' choice as the example job.

Seriously, try reading. Focus or other form of JA doesn't help my math in any way. The benefit from divisor is even greater if you don't have an acc job ability. Pup, thf for instance.

I didn't make a blanket statement claiming that divisor is always better, unlike other, I just gave an exemple contracting the stupid statement that "torreador's is always better".

debate over.

[FailureMidgard]

Wow dude you are dense.

We don't care about focus, this discussion was never about monk. We are talking about which is better WHEN ACCURACY IS UNCAPPED. Period. Presumably, focus caps accuracy, and a good monk switches gear to compensate. So yea go for divisor when accuracy is capped, and ignore that entire part during this debate. This debate is only about times when accuracy is uncapped.

You did this entire block of math to show divisor wins by .1 overall. The better player doesn't fulltime toreadors, but instead uses it for the time focus is down, and then switches to divisor when focus is up, as far as mnks go. Sadly, you don't understand this concept, apparently. My initial blanket statement also said:

In any case, 1 acc is better than 3 attack in all situations where you aren't capped accuracy.

Also, why the fuck does your WS set have +.5% dmg for divisor but not toreador? If you're assuming that when you switch into WS gear, you are capped accuracy, THEN AGAIN THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE DEBATE. It's like comparing a sam full-time a toreador vs full-time a 5str ring. Who the fuck is going to do either?

Also, why the fuck are we assuming a 60tp/40ws split? This topic was never about monk. Why are you assuming kick/etc? Really, monk is the job that is going to care about attack the most out of every job out there. He asked as a general purpose ring, for multiple melee jobs.

Toreador is a straight .5% increase in total damage done, assuming it is -only- a TP piece.
Divisor is +.85% increase in TP damage done only

.0085*x=.005
x=.588

Divisor only wins if your TP damage split is >59%, which I guess you are saying is true for monks. Sadly, every other job in the game this doesn't hold anywhere remotely true for.

[pchan]

We don't care about focus, this discussion was never about monk. We are talking about which is better WHEN ACCURACY IS UNCAPPED. Period. Presumably, focus caps accuracy, and a good monk switches gear to compensate. So yea go for divisor when accuracy is capped, and ignore that entire part during this debate. This debate is only about times when accuracy is uncapped.

You are a moron, and didn't even bother reading. Never did I claiming using divisor during focus, try reading what I say, and the math I did, which you didn't. No, I don't use divisor during focus, is that clear enough ?

You did this entire block of math to show divisor wins by .1 overall. The better player doesn't fulltime toreadors, but instead uses it for the time focus is down, and then switches to divisor when focus is up, as far as mnks go. Sadly, you don't understand this concept, apparently. My initial blanket statement also said:

Reading skill do you need it ? It's getting pathetic. All my maths were done by assuming both monks would use the SAME rings. I even said the "focus is up" part is irrelevant, except when taking account for ws frequency.

Also, why the fuck does your WS set have +.5% dmg for divisor but not toreador?

Cos'... 3 attack do +1% and 1 accuracy does +0.5% ?

Spoiler: show

1-0.5=0.5

Also, why the fuck are we assuming a 60tp/40ws split? This topic was never about monk. Why are you assuming kick/etc? Really, monk is the job that is going to care about attack the most out of every job out there. He asked as a general purpose ring, for multiple melee jobs.

If you want to take a grasp of what the "ws frequency" increase does for my exemple you have to consider ws/tp ratio. MNK is not SAM.

Toreador is a straight .5% increase in total damage done, assuming it is -only- a TP piece.
Divisor is +.85% increase in TP damage done only

.0085*x=.005
x=.588

Divisor only wins if your TP damage split is >59%, which I guess you are saying is true for monks. Sadly, every other job in the game this doesn't hold anywhere remotely true for.

Except divisor is also an increase in damage during weapon skill, which you completely ignore.

[nitsuj]

What's better?

Arguing and bitching with people on a webforum, or attempting to be helpful and a genuinely good human being, internet and otherwise?

Seriously you guys. Chill. If someone doesn't agree with your math, start a blog. No need to resort to name calling and other immature shit.

[Raen Ryong]

Except divisor is also an increase in damage during weapon skill, which you completely ignore.

assuming it is -only- a TP piece.

You are a moron, and didn't even bother reading. Never did I claiming using divisor during focus, try reading what I say, and the math I did, which you didn't. No, I don't use divisor during focus, is that clear enough ?

Divisor gains in value during Focus, not loses value.

There's more but I can't be bothered

[pchan]

Divisor gains in value during Focus, not loses value.

There's more but I can't be bothered

No because you don't use during focus. Jesus.

[FailureMidgard]

Reading skill do you need it ? It's getting pathetic. All my maths were done by assuming both monks would use the SAME rings. I even said the "focus is up" part is irrelevant, except when taking account for ws frequency.

Cos'... 3 attack do +1% and 1 accuracy does +0.5% ?


If you want to take a grasp of what the "ws frequency" increase does for my exemple you have to consider ws/tp ratio. MNK is not SAM.

Except divisor is also an increase in damage during weapon skill, which you completely ignore.

Holy fucking shit, are you really this stupid? The OP was not asking about monk, nobody gives a shit about your subpar shitty job. But let's assume we do care. I realize english isn't your first language, and thus, your comprehension of it is worse than my 5 month old daughter's, but I'll try to spell this out for you.

There are 3 things happening here:

1. TP with focus/aggressor up. Accuracy is capped, thus my statement doesn't apply. Ignore this entire portion of the damage.
2. TP without focus/aggressor up and accuracy uncapped. What's better DURING THIS PHASE, IGNORE OTHER PHASES, AS THE STATEMENT "WHEN ACCURACY IS UNCAPPED" DOESN'T APPLY TO THEM.
3. WS. I highly doubt accuracy is uncapped during WS, seeing as you can drop haste to gain accuracy, there are also jobs that attack cap on WS, or that accuracy cap on WS without any accuracy on their gear.

The only fucking thing my statement applies to is -uncapped accuracy-. Or #2.

In any case, for monk (and only monk), divisor may beat out toreador. For every other job in this fucking game, 1acc>3attk IN ALL SITUATIONS THAT ACCURACY IS UNCAPPED. Period. End of story.

In the end, I love how you say I can't read, then in the statement where I say we care about jobs other than mnk, you're genius conclusion is "mnk is not sam". Nofuckingshit. Mnk isn't war or drk or drg either.

[Raelia]

Use Toreador's when your acc is uncapped, use divisor when your acc is capped. What part of that is a hard concept for you to grasp?

Or how about you lose both when you've capped accuracy and put a +5 STR ring or Assailant's Ring on instead, if you want to argue teeny gains of attack.

[pchan]

3. WS. I highly doubt accuracy is uncapped during WS, seeing as you can drop haste to gain accuracy, there are also jobs that attack cap on WS, or that accuracy cap on WS without any accuracy on their gear.

In any case, for monk (and only monk), divisor may beat out toreador. For every other job in this fucking game, 1acc>3attk IN ALL SITUATIONS THAT ACCURACY IS UNCAPPED. Period. End of story.

Oh noes, I was right ? ..

lol @ the bolded part, of course it's not capped. People would use str ring instead, right ?

[Gadritan]

So you two gonna' fuck now or what?

[Starr]

What job did the guy asking about Rings for even mean anyway?

[Yugl]

He said general purpose. No specific class.

[Saithorx]

I guess what we need is an exact number that takes into account everything where you can say 1 damage gained from 1 accuracy = y damage gained from 3 attack.

if y>1then divisor wins
if y=1 then they tie
if y<1 then toredor wins

I'll personally gladly use either ring

[Starr]

Guy who posted the question needs to tell us what jobs he has, if it's DRG DRK or WAR he needs a bitch slap anyway.

[Cream Soda]

Except divisor is also an increase in damage during weapon skill, which you completely ignore.

What does this have to do with picking which piece to TP IN. If you Tp in divisor and ws in divisor. Tp in Toreador ws in divisor. YOU ARE USING THE SAME RING TO WS IN. We are talking about which is better for TP'ing. W/e differences we are having for TP, we ws in the exact same set for both builds.

Wearing a divisor to WS has 0 increase over TP'ing in Toreador's.

[Yugl]

Break from the FM/PChan/CS/Starr rage:

When making requests (General announcement), please supply gear info with the question. The reason is that hypothetical statements tend to cause train wrecks as we've seen over the few pages. In many cases, it's insufficient to ask which piece is better without knowing the entire situation.

[Starr]

Yeah man I am raging all over this thread.

[Tik]

Erlking's Kheten
DMG: 91 Delay: 504

Compare and contrast augments:

DMG+6, Double Attack+2
Elemental Enspell Attribute+10~20

or

DMG+6, STR+5, Double Attack+2

Obviously these are perfect, however, which would you choose in the event it came to these, or at the very least, close?

[Yugl]

Yeah man I am raging all over this thread.

It's ok; we forgive you.

[Chen]

ok, without h8n too much on my gear.

working on self cure macro for hate, atm i have 370hp cured, 371 swapped off, using the following:
macua+1/koenig/lamian+1/---
aegishjalmer/ritter/etheral/cassie
ACPpldstandard/homam/herc/BQR
luitentants(40hp)/warwolf/af2/homam

would 40hp<-> cerb mantle be wise?
etheral<->loq?

any other obvious suggestions? i'm willing to drop a couple of mil for noticeable improvements (i'm thinking hospiterler earring + gigant mantle...)