Fantasy Football 2009: Start 'Em, Sit 'Em, Trade 'Em

[Gadritan]

Several holes in your counter:

1. Welker leads the league in YAC.

2. 99% of his catches are for > 0 yards.

3. The catches he gets lead to first downs, clock control, etc

3a. These first downs lead to wins and field goals/touchdown opportunities for other players. This makes them valuable; 0 has no value by definition.

DEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRPPPPPPP!

You sir, are a genius. The point I was making, is that he should be rewarded for yardage, not the catches themselves. Any catch, made by any player, for any positive yardage, does indeed lead to first downs, clock control, which then lead to field goals/touchdown opportunities for everyone.

Like really Welt. Stop before you hurt yourself.

Edit: And that wasn't a counter. I was just stating what kind of scoring I like for receptions and carries in addition to what you had stated was your preferred scoring system.

[Weltall]

Which is more valuable genius:

A: 15 Catches 175 yards

B: 4 Catches 175 yards

Note - If you pick B, you lost.

I got your point, and my point was you should be rewarded for BOTH; you should just stop before you hurt yourself, especially if you couldn't make that out.

Note 2 - If you think A=B, you also lost. Had to get that in there before the always reliable BG moron responds with it.

[Gadritan]

Which is more valuable genius:

A: 15 Catches 175 yards

B: 4 Catches 175 yards

Note - If you pick B, you lost.

I got your point, and my point was you should be rewarded for BOTH; you should just stop before you hurt yourself, especially if you couldn't make that out.

What's more impressive? A WR that averages 43.75 yrds or 11.6 yrds/catch? Obviously 43.75.

What's more impressive? A WR that averages 10 catches a game or 5 catches a game? Obviously 10 (though that 10 would seem shitty if it was coupled with a 5yrd/catch average).

Point is, you can argue it either way and that was a horrible attempt to justify your argument. It still comes down to yardage. Production.

[Weltall]

You're wrong, but OK lol.

Production is an equation which has more variables than just "X=Yardage".

You're cracking us up at work; just keep responding, please lol.

[Gadritan]

Think about this. Sidney Rice has 29 less receptions yet has 21 more yards than Welker. He's averaging 17.5 yrds/catch. MIN gains an average of 17.5 fucking yards when he catches the ball. That's huge man, fucking huge. It makes teams respect the explosive plays which opens up the running game and those short possession passes that WR like Welker get.

[Plow]

Which is more valuable genius:

A: 15 Catches 175 yards

B: 4 Catches 175 yards

Note - If you pick B, you lost.

I got your point, and my point was you should be rewarded for BOTH; you should just stop before you hurt yourself, especially if you couldn't make that out.

Note 2 - If you think A=B, you also lost. Had to get that in there before the always reliable BG moron responds with it.

Which is more valuable:

200 yards and no td's

200 yards and 2 td's


Note, if you pick no td's, you lost.

[Gadritan]

You're cracking us up at work; just keep responding, please lol.

You're really so worked up over this that you gotta' show it to your buddies at work? Awesomesauce.

Production is an equation which has more variables than just "X=Yardage".

That's my point. Look at what I'm saying...take a few deep breaths...then think about it. That is exactly wtf I'm saying.

[recuperi]

Is it safe to assume 4 for 175 is Andre and Welt is just trying to build his team up for later tonight? Like "at least it isn't the Patriots again" maybe

I still can't argue against Welker in PPR though, but there's a reason why it's called PPR format and not standard

[Gadritan]

Exactly. I just prefer non-PPR leagues.

I look at catches like xtra pts for kickers. They don't really deserve to get a full point from it. They're SUPPOSED to make them. WRs are SUPPOSED to catch the ball. That's one of the most critical parts of their job description.

[Weltall]

.5 PPR is the new standard and has been across most forums since 2006/7

I hope Andre gets at least 21 point because I need him to knock the guy I'm tied with for 1st down in the rankings.

"It still comes down to yardage. Production."

This sure sounded like, "Yardage=Production"; you may want to clear this one up, if that is even possible at this point. I know it may be difficult at times, but try to clear the spew up.

[Tyche]

I've always liked .33-.5 PPR format. 1ppr is entirely too much.

[Gadritan]

"It still comes down to yardage. Production."

This sure sounded like, "Yardage=Production"; you may want to clear this one up, if that is even possible at this point. I know it may be difficult at times, but try to clear the spew up.

This is the piece of corn in the turd you gotta' focus on since you have nothing on the rest of it.

FF purposes it should come down to pure yardage IMO. The intangibles can't be measured. (Duh)

Someone who might only get 3-4 catches in a game, but any of those can be a 40+ yard reception for a TD, can have just as much of an impact on the game purely through their presence on the field as someone who makes 10-15 catches to help march down the field.

What is one of the keys to Welker's success? HE'S GOT RANDY MOTHERFUCKING MOSS ON THE FIELD! The deep threat from Moss is a huge factor in Welker's success.

Football 101 Welt.

[Weltall]

I agree with you on 1PPR = too much. .5 is perfect

[Weltall]

This is the piece of corn in the turd you gotta' focus on since you have nothing on the rest of it.

FF purposes it should come down to pure yardage IMO. The intangibles can't be measured. (Duh)

Someone who might only get 3-4 catches in a game, but any of those can be a 40+ yard reception for a TD, can have just as much of an impact on the game purely through their presence on the field as someone who makes 10-15 catches to help march down the field.

What is one of the keys to Welker's success? HE'S GOT RANDY MOTHERFUCKING MOSS ON THE FIELD! The deep threat from Moss is a huge factor in Welker's success.

Football 101 Welt.

Catches are tangible.....lol. Lets just stop because you think I'm stupid, and I know you're stupid.

"CATCHES AREN'T TANGIBLE, WAIT...THEY ARE MEASURABLE....I NEED A DICTIONARY...AGAIN"

Welker gets his because he is a top 3 route runner in the league, has excellent hands, and is INTELLIGENT on the field.

[Gadritan]

Scroll up. I don't think catches should be highly rewarded, or rewarded at all based on the fact that they're supposed to make them to begin with. Occasionally there's a great catch that's worth something, but the majority are pretty standard. I also said "IMO," and even put it in bold to make the point that I'm stating my opinion on scoring.

How fucking stupid are you son?

Edit: Really. "FF purposes it should come down to pure yardage IMO." How do you interpret that any other way than what is stated? When I said the intangibles can't be measured, I obviously wasn't talking about or including catches since I don't think they should be part of the scoring and they're tangible. You're Captain Fucking Obvious today.

[Plow]

2. Every one person I've had look at my team in the 20-man has said, "Wow, what moron is running this thing?" or something similar.

Good for them

Hey, I have an idea:

Ask them how many 20 man leagues they've run where over half the league is within 1 game of each other 11 games in.

3. I don't agree with your counter-argument, and nor would most non-BG ppl (they will side with you over me, or at least make it sound that way even if they don't, so its a null point). The league was set up by monkeys throwing wrenches at a touch-screen monitor to adjust scoring. I just joined and kind of figured, "hey, these guys talk like they know whats up, so I'm sure the rules/scoring is fine".

Adjustments made to scoring:

Passing percentage points added. People said QB weren't scoring enough. Result? 18 of the top 25 are QB's.

Receiving yardage upped to equal with rushing yardage. Result? Once you get past the 10+ td backs, WR and RB are split about evenly in the 25-35 slots... and then it becomes all out WR's from like 35-60, with a few rb and qb here and there.

Kicking scores were toned down, because I'd forgotten to when I set it up. Result? No kickers near the top of scoring, and a split of only 20 points between 1st and 25th best kickers.


Please, I challenge you to come up with 1 single complaint about any of the scoring in any way that doesn't involve Wes Welker.

That kind of all went out the window when there was some absolutely retarded draft pick trading with absolutely no way of vetoing it. FAIL

You sure you were at the draft? (sarcasm)

The draft pick trading went down in draft chat, in front of everyone, and there were no attempts to object until *AFTER* the draft... at which point it could not be undone unless you wanted to redo the draft.

3a. Yes, contrary to what some idiots will say (Tyche), I made all of my draft picks in the 20-man.

Yeah, Tyche, he made his draft picks, it's just that he's stated repeatedly that he literally did not look at scoring beforehand. Hence not realizing it wasn't ppr until it was too late.

From what I've skimmed over reading the last couple of days, there are a few other leagues which are run badly through BG, so next year I will just steer clear as I have in the past. No loss to you or me (me).

Don't even try to lump me in with the shit tyr does during seasons, you can accuse me of making a bad scoring system (even though that's just cuz you're dumb) all you like, I am not cheating or rigging anything. Every league decision I've made has been put on the table for everyone to see and agree or object.



And no, PPR is not the "standard," and in 99% of people that have been playing for more than a year or 2, it never will be.


PPR in my eyes will always be another goofy league like IDP, 2qb, etc.

1 more post inc.

[Weltall]

1. I never accused you of trying to set something up, especially when there is no prize to be had.

2. Here is a screen grab from a 0 PPR league I am in for Welker(note: Team is not mine)

http://i48.tinypic.com/9fppw6.jpg

Welker managed 21 in a non-PPR setup done CORRECTLY.

In your garbage, he scored 11.13. If there was a bonus awarded for kicking arse, I am guessing it was the .13 lol.....


Edit - Also to Gadritan....

Jets beat the Pats without Welker earlier in the year.

Yesterday, the Pats dominated the Jets with Welker.

Who is more valuable to the team, Moss or Welker? There are certainly valid arguments on both sides of that fence. I would bet a lot of money old Bill would take Welker over Moss if he had to choose.

[Plow]

I will defend my scoring system heavily. I like it. A lot. This 20 man league is some of the most fun I've had in FFB in a long time. Of course it helps that I'm doing well-- but it's not like I changed a bunch of settings at the last second and am owning it up because people didn't have an opportunity to react.

Not to mention, my "idiotic" much-chagrined trade has paid off extremely well, and has on its own carried me to a pretty damn strong showing. The guy on the other end has had, get this: extremely similar production. Did I give up a bit much? Sure. It was in a rush, and I wanted to do my best to make an offer people wouldn't flip out and go "no way you can't do that" on, because I had like 7 minutes from the time the idea came up to get it done.



Anyway, point being, everything is what was agreed upon by the people who participated in the discussion.

Here is my intention for next year:

Each of the major scoring categories will start out with 5 options, everyone participating will be given a couple of days to vote on each.

The most popular 2 options for each stat will then be put up for another vote. This way people can make the final decision on what they want things to be with a very good idea of what all the other scoring will be.

Then we'll go over it all 1 more time, to make sure nothing is out of balance (hopefully once again with assistance from our friendly neighborhood statistician).


After that, qq'ers will be shot on sight.

[Plow]

1. I never accused you of trying to set something up, especially when there is no prize to be had.

2. Here is a screen grab from a 0 PPR league I am in for Welker(note: Team is not mine)

http://i48.tinypic.com/9fppw6.jpg

Welker managed 21 in a non-PPR setup done CORRECTLY.

In your garbage, he scored 11.13. If there was a bonus awarded for kicking arse, I am guessing it was the .13 lol.....

Wow, I really didn't realize you were this legitimately retarded.


Protip: consider looking at the scores OTHER than Welker.

You might just notice a trend.

[Weltall]

I'm sure in your dumbass league Ward got more than Welker?