Help me start a Limbus linkshell

[Nishida]

I want to thank everyone who has posted in this thread. You've all definitely given me a lot of good incite as to what to expect and how to handle a new linkshell for an endgame event. I myself am no veteran to limbus or any endgame for that, though I have done a lot. I won't be expecting a bunch of fully meritted well geared players to join a late night shout shell anyways, so I'll probably tailor my strategies based on who can even join. Thanks again for all of the information!

How is this for a point system?

Our lotting system will be a points based system. Most people are very accustomed to this type of system, and it causes for the least amount of drama over drops. I will be basing lotting rights half on point totals, and half on attendance. I will be keeping attendance points and participation points seperate.


Showing up early - 1pt
Showing up on time - 1pt
Staying the duration of the event - 2pts
Total maximum points: 4

Example setup:
Day 1 - Nish shows up early and stays the entirety of the event. 4 pts
Day 2 - Nish shows up on time and stays the entirety of the event. 3 pts
Day 3 - Nish shows up on time, but has to leave midway through the run. 2pts
Day 4 - Nish shows up late, but stays for the duration of the time he arrives til the end. 1-2 pts (Depends on how late)

In a 4 run total Nish has gained a total of 10 pts. 3 pts were given for attendance.

Day 1 - Bob shows up on time, and stays for the entire event. 3pts
Day 2 - Bob does not show up at all. -1 pts
Day 3 - Bob shows up early to make up for his absence, and stays the entire event. 4pts
Day 4 - Bob shows up early again, and stays the entire event. 4pts

In the same 4 run total Bob has gained a total of 10 pts equaling Nish. However, he has earned -1 attendance points.

Comparing Nish vs. Bob, Nish would get first dibs on the item. Nish made an active effort each day to show up, even though he was late once and let early once. He did not get negative points for being late or leaving early, but did lose out on full run points.

Provided you show up on time and do not skip events you will get your gear.

[Panthera]

@Nishida

Personally, i think for something like Limbus which has pretty short duration next to Dynamis, i think plan on staying for the duration, 0 points unless you're there for the entire thing. I also don't give early points or whatever. If you're late, we're leaving without you. If one can get soap, teleport self and be in the zone before we kill the flower, you can still come. Don't make everyone wait around for one guy...

ffshell.net > limbus forums for how we roll.

[Yugl]

Looks good so far imo. Even if you take Pantera's suggestion and leave without them, they're not going to receive any points for showing up late, so there's no real need to amend those rules. In addition, the benefit of members showing up early is that you can tell them what to come as *before* you need to start. I would also make a "default" class for each person, and have a tiered list of people's classes. For example:

Member 1 has BRD BLM THF DRK RDM

His default could be BRD if you need him on BRD more often than the rest. His tiered list would then look like:

BLM
RDM
DRK
THF

This indicates that in the event of him not being on BRD, he'll likely be on one of these classes (Ranked most likely to unlikely). This system will cut wait time for changing (I cannot tell you how many times my members think they're slick coming to Port Jueno on fucking 73SAM), and lets them know to what gear to leave in the safe as opposed to storage.

[Nishida]

Looks good so far imo. Even if you take Pantera's suggestion and leave without them, they're not going to receive any points for showing up late, so there's no real need to amend those rules. In addition, the benefit of members showing up early is that you can tell them what to come as *before* you need to start. I would also make a "default" class for each person, and have a tiered list of people's classes. For example:

Member 1 has BRD BLM THF DRK RDM

His default could be BRD if you need him on BRD more often than the rest. His tiered list would then look like:

BLM
RDM
DRK
THF

This indicates that in the event of him not being on BRD, he'll likely be on one of these classes (Ranked most likely to unlikely). This system will cut wait time for changing (I cannot tell you how many times my members think they're slick coming to Port Jueno on fucking 73SAM), and lets them know to what gear to leave in the safe as opposed to storage.

This was something that I definitely plan to do. I don't want to shuffle around trying to figure out who has what job every run. It only prolongs things, lol.

[Panthera]

Actually, this is the only problem, and it will never, ever happen if you (the 'leader') don't suffer from retardation.

Ten people in you shell? That's three zones. Only six show up? That's two zones. Not enough people to do a planned boss (lol, never happens)? Put chips on other people for the next set.

This is hyberbolic. If you're talking about a seasoned end game LS with people who are have worked together a long time, possibly know each other in real life, AND know the Limbus zones backwards and forwards, that might be true of some zones (but there are zones you need more than a whopping three people for...is it recruitement time yet?), but that's not so in the context of a pickup group who are new to Limbus and new to each other. And further, in a pickup shell with only ten people, you'll tend to have 4-8 members, and you will rarely have the numbers to do a boss. It doesn't do you any good to have chip sets if you don't have the numbers to use them. You'll have people who express an interest in the shell, and never show up; there's how many you have on paper, and how many actually in the zone. This is true of both small and large roster groups.

And for the love of god, if you have ten people and doing any single zone hinges on one or two people showing up, just stop. You are an idiot who let all his DRK buddies join a Limbus group, expecting a single BRD and/or WHM and/or RDM and/or BLM to carry your group, in which case, you suffer from retardation

This is a recuitment strategy problem not unique large rosters, but also shared by small rosters. Indeed, the fewer people you have, the more versatile people must be to cover whoever is missing. So now not only must people have one job you need, more two or more. Some people are particular to melee or mage class jobs. Small roster can make the recruiting process harder, not easier. Be it small roster or larger roster, ideally you want people who can do both, but this is not an ideal world nor a perfect game, nor are exceptional players found in abdundance; the game itself is designed that way, for those kinds of players are literally exceptional.

Or, you know... you could have 20+ members, take screenshots, do points, maintain a website, deal with new morons when old morons leave, have people who only show up for boss fights, listen to people whine, bitch, complain...

If you truly believe that taking a screenshot and doing points are difficult, you suffer from either laziness or, how do you put it, "retardation?" Don't deal with morons in a small shell or a large shell, kick them. You're gonna have to *try* new people in a new shell! be it small or large roster. And if you need both Homan and Nashira and you're starting from scratch, you *will* see people come and go; it is simply the way of the game. If people only show up to boss fights, it has nothing to do with the roster size; kick em. And people are gonna whine, bitch and complain when they have to breath a sigh of relief at the end of the run twice a week. I just don't see how winning by the skin of your teeth on a regular basis earns you bragging rights. Why not brag about how many friends you've made in your limbus shell and how easy it is?

Yes, there certainly are a lot of problems associated with having a small group to do Limbus with. Like who to sell your 11th pair of Homam pants to, and which piece of af to upgrade next.

Basically, you've confounded problems which have nothing to do with large roster groups. There IS an upside to small manning events; efficiency, getting done with the end game activity because everyone has maxed out on gear because there's so few mouths to feed; the ego satisfaction (if you need it) of pushing yourself and your teammates and beating the odds, but there's a flipside; no one is infallible, you or your teammates will screw up sooner or later and it can and will cost you a run and lose whatever efficiency you strive for. Not to mention the odds of getting such an ideal group together in the first place.

Really, everyone on BG talks about the two extremes, small manning events and large manning events. On the one hand, you have the inefficient use of manpower of sending in 18 people into a single zone (and in NE it makes some floors worse), forcing too many people to pick from a small loot pool, and spending too much time on an end game event to get everyone maxed out on gear. On the other hand, you have small manning events, with its pros (you acknowledge) and cons (you ignore).

But isn't there such a thing as "middle" manning an event? Give yourself a few extra people as a cushion just in case, as inevitably it will happen, something goes wrong (such as DC's which is no one's fault and no one can help), but not so many you actually have lag from the sheer number of people. Surely there's a "Golden Mean" of doing events. That is the ideal, and it is more practical to achieve.

[TybudX]

Wow, way to take it personally.

edit - Did you even read my post? It's like you've selectively forgot things I address from one point to the next. You just played a big game of "no u!". Good job.

[Thorny]

(but there are zones you need more than a whopping three people for...is it recruitement time yet?)

You need 4 for central temenos 1-3, 5 for omega, and 7 for ultima. OMG. When you factor in that all apollyons can be duoed and NW/SW can be soloed, his numbers are pretty accurate.

but that's not so in the context of a pickup group who are new to Limbus and new to each other. And further, in a pickup shell with only ten people, you'll tend to have 4-8 members, and you will rarely have the numbers to do a boss. It doesn't do you any good to have chip sets if you don't have the numbers to use them. You'll have people who express an interest in the shell, and never show up; there's how many you have on paper, and how many actually in the zone. This is true of both small and large roster groups.

kick idiots and people who are unreliable, collect good players

On the other hand, you have small manning events, with its pros (you acknowledge) and cons (you ignore).

Small manning with competent players has next to no cons.

But isn't there such a thing as "middle" manning an event? Give yourself a few extra people as a cushion just in case, as inevitably it will happen, something goes wrong (such as DC's which is no one's fault and no one can help), but not so many you actually have lag from the sheer number of people. Surely there's a "Golden Mean" of doing events. That is the ideal, and it is more practical to achieve.

There is already plenty of cushion space for duoing any apollyon or 4manning any temenos. If you need more than that to reliably win.. well, get better.

[jimbobsonofgod]

Whats A 4 man set up for Central 3.

I always drag like 9000 people there cause imma scared.

No really its the only zone I don't Split besides Omega/Ultima. Fear of losing I guess....

[Yugl]

kick idiots and people who are unreliable, collect good players

The problem however, is that unlike a real HNMLSs, he may have difficulty finding people that are "good" players. He listed many of the requirements of a "good" player. In addition, when you consider the scenario, you're making a LS exclusively for Limbus. At the same time, you're limiting these people from joining HNMLSs that do Limbus (Aka where many of the good players are). In short, when it comes to recruitment, the cards are stacked against you.

Now this doesn't mean he'll be unable to find these people over time, but it does mean he can't start off his LS perfectly. Sure, you can cancel runs because you lack sufficient "good" members, but that detracts from membership. Sure, you can hold off on NM fights and pass the chips to other people, but what happens if they turn out to be bad players? Wasted run when you kick them. What happens when people leave after obtaining pieces or join LSs that do Limbus? You screw yourself when that happens because suddenly your vital members (Aka anyone in the LS if doing it with as little as possible) are not there when you need them. A medium amount of members as Panthera suggests means you can deal with these problems even if a situation arises. Mass recruitment with subsequent trimming is the best way to go.

[Massimo]

Whats A 4 man set up for Central 3.

I always drag like 9000 people there cause imma scared.

No really its the only zone I don't Split besides Omega/Ultima. Fear of losing I guess....

DD DD BRD RDM is rather foolproof if your people doesn't suck.

[FailureMidgard]

The problem however, is that unlike a real HNMLSs, he may have difficulty finding people that are "good" players. He listed many of the requirements of a "good" player. In addition, when you consider the scenario, you're making a LS exclusively for Limbus. At the same time, you're limiting these people from joining HNMLSs that do Limbus (Aka where many of the good players are). In short, when it comes to recruitment, the cards are stacked against you.

Now this doesn't mean he'll be unable to find these people over time, but it does mean he can't start off his LS perfectly. Sure, you can cancel runs because you lack sufficient "good" members, but that detracts from membership. Sure, you can hold off on NM fights and pass the chips to other people, but what happens if they turn out to be bad players? Wasted run when you kick them. What happens when people leave after obtaining pieces or join LSs that do Limbus? You screw yourself when that happens because suddenly your vital members (Aka anyone in the LS if doing it with as little as possible) are not there when you need them. A medium amount of members as Panthera suggests means you can deal with these problems even if a situation arises. Mass recruitment with subsequent trimming is the best way to go.

I've yet to see a "real HNM" shell that is full of good players. Maybe Midgard just blows. It's much much easier to find a small handful of quality players than enough to form an HNM shell.


As a side note, if you do start small (say 3-5 people), it isn't a huge stretch to find a few friends to help with just an Omega now and then, so I'd keep that as an option. With some success, it's then easier to find more people.

[jimbobsonofgod]

DD DD BRD RDM is rather foolproof if your people doesn't suck.

how do you deal with Pee Qoho the Python?

do you clear all mobs.

I'm pretty shocked that you can do it with 4 people ...

As much as wiki fails , I pretty much believe this

Can be cleared with a balanced group of 12 players.

* Can be cleared with a balanced group of 9 players.
* Can be cleared with a strong group of 7 players. Members included PLD (aegis), NIN, 2x DRK (Apocalypse), BRD, RDM and BLM

[Massimo]

how do you deal with Pee Qoho the Python?

do you clear all mobs.

I'm pretty shocked that you can do it with 4 people ...

As much as wiki fails , I pretty much believe this

Can be cleared with a balanced group of 12 players.

* Can be cleared with a balanced group of 9 players.
* Can be cleared with a strong group of 7 players. Members included PLD (aegis), NIN, 2x DRK (Apocalypse), BRD, RDM and BLM

Clear all/most mobs depending on time. Fight Pee Qoho down the ramp (with mages up top) so only the DDs will get hit.

[Thorny]

As Massimo said, RDM BRD DD DD. Clear everything, brd sacs for the 3 kings, fight pee qoho at bottom of ramp and cast shell on your DD. If they both die to AF through bad luck, rdm can hold it while they get unweak(and there's still enough time to win).

[Plow]

Make a merit pt.

2x sam, 1x war or nin, brd, rdm, whm


Every Apollyon zone will be *EXTREMELY* easy with that setup.


Learn from there, practice with that for a while, advance from that point.




That's probably the easiest way to introduce yourselves to the areas.

[Yugl]

I've yet to see a "real HNM" shell that is full of good players. Maybe Midgard just blows. It's much much easier to find a small handful of quality players than enough to form an HNM shell.

I didn't say real HNMLSs are full of good players; I merely stated that it's more difficult for smaller shells such as these to recruit players compared to HNMLSs that offer more activities (The ones that tend to entice people with good gear, and offer good gear other than Homam/Nashira).

As a side note, if you do start small (say 3-5 people), it isn't a huge stretch to find a few friends to help with just an Omega now and then, so I'd keep that as an option. With some success, it's then easier to find more people.

It's always an option if you can work it out as you said. From my personal experience with this (The only experience I can offer), is that most people you know are good probably have a HNMLS (Thus, cannot help with Omega or join the LS). I mentioned earlier that if he has the friends to do what you mentioned, he should go for it.

Make a merit pt.

2x sam, 1x war or nin, brd, rdm, whm


Every Apollyon zone will be *EXTREMELY* easy with that setup.


Learn from there, practice with that for a while, advance from that point.




That's probably the easiest way to introduce yourselves to the areas.

This really depends on recruitment. I would go for as many Tank(Read: PLD/NIN/RDM)/BRD/RDM/BLM types as possible before bothering with DD. They're nice for chip runs, but I find them to be more of a hassle to deal with at Omega (We use our two DDs in the LS as pod onry people).

[FailureMidgard]

I didn't say real HNMLSs are full of good players; I merely stated that it's more difficult for smaller shells such as these to recruit players compared to HNMLSs that offer more activities (The ones that tend to entice people with good gear, and offer good gear other than Homam/Nashira).

Can lowman limbus, sky, sea, salvage, znm, scnm. Then again, the OP seemed to be just after limbus.

It's always an option if you can work it out as you said. From my personal experience with this (The only experience I can offer), is that most people you know are good probably have a HNMLS (Thus, cannot help with Omega or join the LS). I mentioned earlier that if he has the friends to do what you mentioned, he should go for it.

A lot of HNM shells at this point have Limbus as a semi-optional event from what I've seen, or at the very least, if you asked a leader "hey, can I help my friend kill omega once every other week or so", they'd probably be ok with it.

Another option, if you have 3-4 people, is to try to make a deal with a shell that does limbus where you pop it for them, take first choice of 1 piece of homam, they get the 1-2 extra pieces of homam + extra chips.

There's a lot of options, and I think homam is one of the easiest things in this game to get if you have just a very small group of competent friends.

[Deimos]

Another option, if you have 3-4 people, is to try to make a deal with a shell that does limbus where you pop it for them, take first choice of 1 piece of homam, they get the 1-2 extra pieces of homam + extra chips.

Alternatively, you could hire random people to come for Omega fights, and you keep all drops. I've never tried it myself, but it should work in theory. Offer 100k/person to come kill Omega, if you have 3-4 people already you should only need to hire 5 more or so. 500k for 2-3 random Homam pieces and potentially some chips seems pretty good. The ancient beastcoins you get while farming the chips could be sold and should easily cover that cost.