Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Thorny]

Assuming those PLDs in SE's video have zero staff skill, it could be SE's way to counter Vilerai (and JoL's charm TP move since they straight tanked it). The PLDs could have switched back to Sword/Shield once Soulvoice has been locked (they used staves throughout the whole fight), plus there are easier ways to handle charmed tanks.

On the other hand, it could be interpreted as a gimmick which can potentially alter AV's behaviour - "since AV uses a 2h weapon, all players must also equip 2h weapons". It doesn't have to have direct effect on Meteor to make the fight easier. For example, tanking with staves could make the fight more manageable by delaying Bracelet mode. LS that hardly make it pass 75% HP mark will always assume tanking with staves makes no difference to the fight since it doesn't reduce Meteor damage directly.

I am not saying that staff wielding PLDs are the way to go, just want to point out a lot of AV theories have not be properly tested.

Where the fuck is Kaeko?

[Kaeko]

Sono never got back to me. I either don't have mod powers here or have them and am too stupid to find them (hopefully the former).

[Titanss]

aim him

[Taruking]

Where the fuck is Kaeko?

Seriously what's the matter with you? Do you really have to stick your nose in everybody's post after getting banned so many times?

Part of the reason this thread has not produced new results after 80+ pages is because LS with enough manpower to handle AV mainly focus on finding a way to block or weaken meteor. You don't have to block Meteor completely to win the fight. It is only a major threat when AV enters Bracelet mode. If AV's defense can be somehow weakened towards the end of the fight, it's also possible to take AV down before multiple Bracelet Meteor wipe out the alliance.

Test runs designed to assess single outcome are likely to fail unless you already know what to expect. You are more likely to see some results by copying SE's video and monitoring the fight. It would have been the only way to find out what nuking AV with element of the day does to AV without SE telling us the actual effect.

[Thorny]

You are suggesting having everyone use 2h weapons because AV uses a 2h weapon will do something as opposed to acknowledging that Terra's Staff is the best weapon to prevent one-shots. Are you seriously mentally handicapped? If so, I'll cut you some slack. If not, shut the fuck up.

[Bikpik]

Seriously what's the matter with you? Do you really have to stick your nose in everybody's post after getting banned so many times?

Part of the reason this thread has not produced new results after 80+ pages is because LS with enough manpower to handle AV mainly focus on finding a way to block or weaken meteor. You don't have to block Meteor completely to win the fight. It is only a major threat when AV enters Bracelet mode. If AV's defense can be somehow weakened towards the end of the fight, it's also possible to take AV down before multiple Bracelet Meteor wipe out the alliance.

Test runs designed to assess single outcome are likely to fail unless you already know what to expect. You are more likely to see some results by copying SE's video and monitoring the fight. It would have been the only way to find out what nuking AV with element of the day does to AV without SE telling us the actual effect.

The original purpose of this post was for people to post actual facts about AV, not random theories from people that will never fight AV ever. (but that stopped after page 2.)

[Sonomaa]

Sono never got back to me. I either don't have mod powers here or have them and am too stupid to find them (hopefully the former).

I was waiting for you to aim me so we could go over what I wanted you to do and not do.

Ill just go over it here so people can see what I expect of you:

First: Stay in this thread for moderation, if you want to branch out to other threads that need assistance, you can, just do it slowly, there is no reason to overwhelm yourself with the gallons of shit that flow around.

Second: Move, DO NOT DELETE. If you have a bunch of posts that need to go, click the box next to them then at the bottom select the drop down and click Move Posts then click OK. Select the thread graveyard (its under the mods forum) and dump the shit there.

Third: Infractions vs Banning. Infractions are slaps on the wrist, most people will be good after a harsh infraction (youll see the list of infractions) but some are much more resilient and require a less delicate touch. As a rule we start with 1 day ban, then 3 day ban, then 1 week ban. Also you can infract ban if they continue to fuck up, once they reach ten points of infractions the system auto-bans until the infractions wear. Some wear fast, some not so fast.

As a general rule of thumb, if you drop the hammer and dispense some justice and someone wants to have an intelligent conversation regarding it via AIM or Email and you feel they are worth a second chance, you may do so at your discretion however understand that some people will know this. You have to look beyond the possible trickery and keep the pain on if they are going to stab you in the back.

If a mod is already working on a thread, leave them to do it or make a topic in the mods section to talk about it. As far as a chain of command goes, if you have a question you can PM or IM me, if myself or Nikkei say something its law, if Isladar says something its law unless its kill everyone then you just throw some red paint on stuff and say big words like massacre and hurtystab. Her eyes will glaze over and her bloodlust will be sated. If you really need some harsh murderhelp on the thread, just ask her to step in, five bannings later they will be begging for you to come back. As far as the other mods go you are in the same boat as them, Tyche sticks with sports and hating qalbert, vandole stays in general, qalbert goes wherever the free man walks, Ksandra is great for advice too as she isnt blinded by testosterone.

If the forum is breaking or looks like its getting hacked, my cell is in the mods section, CALL ME. Ill call ragn and ragn will be very upset and come kill the country that did it. If ragn isnt around and its not too serious you can contact Alleya, they are the server admins, they fix it if its broken.

If you have a question, ask. If you break something because you didnt ask a question, your a fuckwit. Introduce yourself in the mod forums and enjoy being hated for the rest of your forum career (or until you run away screaming into the night).

[Kaeko]

Many thanks Sono.

I don't plan on thread banning anyone right now. I just want to clean up the more "wtf theory" posts and edit VS's original post to pool the information into one post.

Please try to keep this thread to one of the following:

(1) Actual attempts
If you actually attempted an AV fight and tested some crazy ass theory, for instance "60+ holys will lock meteor", then posting is fine. The key phrase is ACTUALLY ATTEMPTED. If it is only theory then it's pointless to post, sorry. If you actually attempted AV, please post anything and everything.

(2) Discussion regarding game mechanics
This would include anything that is not an off-the-wall theory and uses information that is at least known by the player-base. A good example of this is talking about Dark Resist sets to resist meteor.

(3) Questioning information given by others or in the OP (or update suggestions to OP)
Please try to correct anything you don't agree with in the OP. If you want to save this thread, try to keep the OP as accurate and updated as possible.

(4) Anything reasonable
Most people here have reasonable IQs. Use common sense.

****

Some examples:

The Good:
(1) Alexander and Odin VS AV with screenshots
(2) Posting about MDT/MDB sets
(3) Anything regarding an actual attempt
(4) Suggesting changes to the OP

The Bad
(case by case)
(1) Dissecting the SE video

The Ugly
(please don't...)
(1) Jailer Weapons
(2) Ebon Panels
(3) Moral discussions on botting
(4) "Your LS sucks..."

I'll be updating VS's original post over the next few days (but keeping his copy still). Be civil, and no more crack-pot theories unless you try them yourself please.

[thetruepandagod]

Fighting it where it pops does nothing.
Keeping the aerns killed led to no discernable change.
Skill chaining with jailer weapons to MB day of the week nuke does nothing.

All my pld's found lives no more tests from me.

[thetruepandagod]

oh yea we tried to drain its mp too with blms/schs and x2 march no change to his casting in over 40 minutes.

[Kaeko]

Gonna start editing tomorrow (maybe tonight), but here are some things I want to run by and make sure I get agreement:

HP: 66,000 (VS has 65-70k, want more specific)

Souleater still works for maybe ~5000 damage then quickly nerfs (so you can get AV to ~90% with the DRK zerg)

Regen after killing JoL pets and spamming nukes of day 100+ times floors around 2%/minute, or ~60HP/tick, or 20HP/sec.

Does Benediction further nerf this regen?

Building damage resistance starts at 80% (none prior to this) and then gradually increases (not tier increase) and applies to all forms of damage (example used was resistance to aegis shield bash damage, which is normally quite consistent).

Utsusemi blocks comet, obviously not meteor

Dark resist works on meteor

Fealty works on meteor (-90% damage) but not comet

Locking all 15 2hrs does not change AI in any way (including meteor)

AV can be moved, but needs to be done slowly. Will draw in targets too far away it tries to reach.

To lock AV 2hrs, the player needs to use the corresponding 2hr and be (1) on hate list, (2) in alliance. Cannot be outside alliance.

Different AV 2hrs have different color "dust clouds" (was a JP blog that had a list and pics of this... cant find right now).

AV's evasion is extremely strong (anecdotal evidence?)

King's Justice seems to bypass some form of AV's damage resist (I only heard this one, can anyone deny or verify?).

Post-80%HP AV gains access to Meteor w/o font and Explosive Impulse w/o MS.

Post-60%HP AV gains bracers, will 2hr in triplet combos. What happens when you lock 1 of only a set of the combos? For instance, one combo is PLD > WHM > NIN. If you lock PLD, but not WHM, what happens? All 3 stopped, or will just start with WHM?

AV cannot use magic or abilities while Blood Weapon and Mighty Strikes are active (used by Apathy). 1 strategy is to leave these 2 unlocked so AV will rotate them and give you some breathing time (no meteor casts or explosive impulse spam).

Meteor damage reduction reduction caps at 10 targets (universal to all AoEs outside Astral Flow).

Ramp at the entrance will block Meteor. As will standing at or opposite side of the underside of the ramp.

That's all I can think of for now, I'll try organizing in the OP

[thetruepandagod]

Different AV 2hrs have different color "dust clouds" (was a JP blog that had a list and pics of this... cant find right now).

http://translate.google.com/translat...2F&sl=ja&tl=en

this might be it

[Kaeko]

http://translate.google.com/translat...2F&sl=ja&tl=en

this might be it

That's the one.

I'm not sure if this holds too much significance seeing as most people who full lock use a sync tool, but it's good to document.

[Thorny]

Minor thing, but fealty being 90% damage reduction seems odd. Wouldn't it be more likely that it's forcing a full resist, as it natively forces resist for it's 'normal' use?

If there's evidence otherwise, my bad.

[Kaeko]

Minor thing, but fealty being 90% damage reduction seems odd. Wouldn't it be more likely that it's forcing a full resist, as it natively forces resist for it's 'normal' use?

If there's evidence otherwise, my bad.

I'll try to find old PM's but Suiram and I worked it out awhile back. Might be 1/8? that would fit better with the resist theory.

[Byrthnoth]

There has always been a disconnect in my mind at least between the text on every "status effect resistance" buff/debuff and what they actually do (that being, nothing noticeable). There has also been a corresponding disconnect between Fealty's description and how it functions in this fight. Maybe figuring out what status barspells and songs actually do would help in figuring out why Fealty has anything to do with Meteor. Alternatively, you could just have your best bard toss up Fowl Aubade and Warding Round while your best WHM casts Barsleepra in their barspell gear and see if anyone resists the next meteor.

I don't see it there, so it's probably worth listing whether or not Tomahawk's effect works on AV's damage resistance at low HP.

[Rocl]

Minor point on OP:

Soul Voice: (90sec) AV will cast Maiden’s Virelai approx. every 10sec. (will not cast AeroV, AerogaIV, TornadoII, or WS)

Does this mean AV stops casting those spells? As I was certain the wynavs did not have access to spells that high level. It has been a while since I've fought AV, and I am fairly certain this is just a copypasta error, but I figured I'd point it out.

[Kaeko]

There has always been a disconnect in my mind at least between the text on every "status effect resistance" buff/debuff and what they actually do (that being, nothing noticeable). There has also been a corresponding disconnect between Fealty's description and how it functions in this fight. Maybe figuring out what status barspells and songs actually do would help in figuring out why Fealty has anything to do with Meteor. Alternatively, you could just have your best bard toss up Fowl Aubade and Warding Round while your best WHM casts Barsleepra in their barspell gear and see if anyone resists the next meteor.

I don't see it there, so it's probably worth listing whether or not Tomahawk's effect works on AV's damage resistance at low HP.

I don't know if Tomohawk works... maybe someone that attempted a WAR zerg before could weigh in.

I remember having a long PM discussion between Suriam and VS about why Fealty works on Meteor, and seemingly only meteor. It doesn't work on Comet. One theory was that Meteor was actually classified as an enfeebling spell (on accident?), but I believe you can tell it's a Dark Magic spell with some 3rd party tools. Stacking Dark resist does help though. If they ever came out with like bar-darkness on WHM you could probably stack enough resist without raping your other gear.

[Kaeko]

Minor point on OP:

Does this mean AV stops casting those spells? As I was certain the wynavs did not have access to spells that high level. It has been a while since I've fought AV, and I am fairly certain this is just a copypasta error, but I figured I'd point it out.

I think that what AV does doesn't affect the Wynavs outside of the beast related 2hrs. So AV will strictly use charm, but the wynavs are still free to cast ga3 spells. Or did I miss your point?

[Mojo]

HP: 66,000 (VS has 65-70k, want more specific)

Unfortunately I didn't save a parse, so can't say, but maybe someone else did.

Souleater still works for maybe ~5000 damage then quickly nerfs (so you can get AV to ~90% with the DRK zerg)

AV's evasion is extremely strong (anecdotal evidence?)

King's Justice seems to bypass some form of AV's damage resist (I only heard this one, can anyone deny or verify?).

I'm sure that none of these questions can be answered conclusively. If someone claims that they can provide an answer, ask for the supporting evidence, as I have serious doubts that anybody has gone through the efforts required to gather enough data to say with adequate certainty.

Does Benediction further nerf this regen?

Regen after killing JoL pets and spamming nukes of day 100+ times floors around 2%/minute, or ~60HP/tick, or 20HP/sec.

VS may know the answers to these, but again, ask for good supporting evidence or at least a general idea of what led him to whatever conclusions he may have. I'd say they're definitely still in the sketchy zone.

AV cannot use magic or abilities while Blood Weapon and Mighty Strikes are active (used by Apathy). 1 strategy is to leave these 2 unlocked so AV will rotate them and give you some breathing time (no meteor casts or explosive impulse spam).

True. Add Hundred Fists and Meikyo Shisui to that list (and perhaps a few others I've forgotten.)

Building damage resistance starts at 80% (none prior to this) and then gradually increases (not tier increase) and applies to all forms of damage (example used was resistance to aegis shield bash damage, which is normally quite consistent).

I believe it starts at 100% and is somewhat linear (to perhaps a cap, or there must be some way to remove it because the fight would otherwise be impossible,) although I never parsed this. VS would have a much better idea than I, but this is what I recall him claiming.

Utsusemi blocks comet, obviously not meteor

Dark resist works on meteor

Fealty works on meteor (-90% damage) but not comet

AV can be moved, but needs to be done slowly. Will draw in targets too far away it tries to reach.

Different AV 2hrs have different color "dust clouds" (was a JP blog that had a list and pics of this... cant find right now).

Post-80%HP AV gains access to Meteor w/o font and Explosive Impulse w/o MS.

Meteor damage reduction reduction caps at 10 targets (universal to all AoEs outside Astral Flow).

Ramp at the entrance will block Meteor. As will standing at or opposite side of the underside of the ramp.

All true.

Locking all 15 2hrs does not change AI in any way (including meteor)

No changes have been observed.

To lock AV 2hrs, the player needs to use the corresponding 2hr and be (1) on hate list, (2) in alliance. Cannot be outside alliance.

(3) They must also be within some distance, perhaps 20 yalms, of AV.
(4) They must execute their two hour within some small unknown time frame after AV.

Post-60%HP AV gains bracers, will 2hr in triplet combos. What happens when you lock 1 of only a set of the combos? For instance, one combo is PLD > WHM > NIN. If you lock PLD, but not WHM, what happens? All 3 stopped, or will just start with WHM?

Yes to the first part. The behavior is well documented by VS somewhere in the thread, although I believe there was still one condition that they didn't test.