Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Mojo]

Minor point on OP:

Does this mean AV stops casting those spells? As I was certain the wynavs did not have access to spells that high level. It has been a while since I've fought AV, and I am fairly certain this is just a copypasta error, but I figured I'd point it out.

AV stops casting all spells other than Maiden's Virelai while under the effect of Soul Voice. I can't say how this effects the wynavs, but my guess is that it doesn't and it doesn't seem important either way.

[Taruking]

Please try to keep this thread to one of the following:

(1) Actual attempts

(2) Discussion regarding game mechanics
This would include anything that is not an off-the-wall theory and uses information that is at least known by the player-base. A good example of this is talking about Dark Resist sets to resist meteor.

(3) Questioning information given by others or in the OP (or update suggestions to OP)
Please try to correct anything you don't agree with in the OP. If you want to save this thread, try to keep the OP as accurate and updated as possible.

I think by now it's pretty obvious AV cannot be defeated by following normal game mechanics, at least not until level cap is removed. The evidence comes from SE's video and the fact that all so-called legitimate strategies (such as DRK zerg and SCH JA) were either nerfed or adjusted. I am afraid going down the same path again is unlikely to yield any useful result.

There is no logic behind known gimmicks - nuking with element of the day, killing as many JOL pets as possible and matching AV's 2hr all have nothing to do with current game mechanics. It's probably safe to assume that the (few) remaining trick(s) is/are equally bizarre, and can be derived from SE's video since they already confirmed that all clues have been included and there is nothing more they can add. What we don't know is the exact effect of these hidden tricks on AV's behaviour. Obsession with Meteor could be the main reason why this thread has failed to make significant progress. It's entirely possible to beat AV without directly blocking Meteor, which only becomes a major threat when AV enters Bracelet mode. If we can somehow delay Bracelet mode or weaken AV's defense, AV can be taken out before multiple Bracelet Meteor wipe the alliance. Weakening Meteor does not always guarantee victory as AV can still be a pain if its defense continues to increase and there won't be enough time to kill AV before the 2hr mark.

I think the best approach is for a LS to copy unsual features displayed in SE's video, stay alive as long as possible and monitor the behaviour of AV, e.g. spell casting frequency, defense, damage taken etc. It's important to keep an open mind since it's too easy to assume whatever left to be found must have something to do with Meteor. Without SE telling us how to remove AV's regen, a lot of ppl would have assumed nuking with element of the day reduces Meteor damage when they watch the video for the first time. It will take multiple runs and careful observation to determine its exact effect on AV.

[BerenTebogo]

I think by now it's pretty obvious AV cannot be defeated by following normal game mechanics, at least not until level cap is removed. The evidence comes from SE's video and the fact that all so-called legitimate strategies (such as DRK zerg and SCH JA) were either nerfed or adjusted. I am afraid going down the same path again is unlikely to yield any useful result.

There is no logic behind known gimmicks - nuking with element of the day, killing as many JOL pets as possible and matching AV's 2hr all have nothing to do with current game mechanics. It's probably safe to assume that the (few) remaining trick(s) is/are equally bizarre, and can be derived from SE's video since they already confirmed that all clues have been included and there is nothing more they can add. What we don't know is the exact effect of these hidden tricks on AV's behaviour. Obsession with Meteor could be the main reason why this thread has failed to make significant progress. It's entirely possible to beat AV without directly blocking Meteor, which only becomes a major threat when AV enters Bracelet mode. If we can somehow delay Bracelet mode or weaken AV's defense, AV can be taken out before multiple Bracelet Meteor wipe the alliance. Weakening Meteor does not always guarantee victory as AV can still be a pain if its defense continues to increase and there won't be enough time to kill AV before the 2hr mark.

I think the best approach is for a LS to copy unsual features displayed in SE's video, stay alive as long as possible and monitor the behaviour of AV, e.g. spell casting frequency, defense, damage taken etc. It's important to keep an open mind since it's too easy to assume whatever left to be found must have something to do with Meteor. Without SE telling us how to remove AV's regen, a lot of ppl would have assumed nuking with element of the day reduces Meteor damage when they watch the video for the first time. It will take multiple runs and careful observation to determine its exact effect on AV.

http://www.memedepot.com/uploads/0/4...rk_is_this.jpg

Seriously. Stop while you're behind.

[BerenTebogo]

And before someone pops in with the inevitably logic-dismantling comment about "well it never hurts to try something new!"

Yes. Yes it fucking does.

There are a finite amount of shells in existence currently who have the ability to survive against AV long enough to perform any test that can be considered meaningful enough that it contributes quantifiable data to the process of figuring out AV. By virtue of the nature of FFXI, these tests do not exist in a vacuum. Every test takes coordination, organization, time, EXP loss, pop sets, discussion, review, peer review, etc. It is a thorough and demanding process to glean any useful information whatsoever from an AV attempt.

That being said: the players in FFXI are human, as are the strategy coordinators. There is a threshold for how much stress people are willing to endure / inflict under the guise of "ffxi science." We must all, as a community, appreciate that frivolous theories are a plague upon the entire process and cast them out into exile where they belong. Every moment of discussion or thought that goes into debunking some fuckass's stupid, baseless claims are moments that are taken away from productive discussion.

Some of you may not see the difference between productive and not productive. You're idiots. Fucking idiots. Still, I'll spell it out for you.

Stupidfuckingtheory#7835:
---
I think eating Fruit Loops causes an increased risk of oral cancer. Somebody should invest time, energy, and effort to test my claim. If they don't it is because they are afraid of the truth or lazy assholes who don't care about progress. My theory is worthy on its own merit and should be validated or invalidated scientifically because I say so.
---

This is a prime fucking example of 90% of the theories posted in this thread. It's terrible, you should feel bad, and more importantly you should be cast off a-la Napolean Bonaparte to a small, desolate island with armed guards where you can no longer infect people with your stupidity.

Now, for those of you who want to know why that is terrible? This is how you logically approach a viable theory.

Plausibletheory#3646
---
Information taken from existing research done by the National Ass Cancer institute has shown a trend in Ass Cancer sufferers existing in the southern midwest United States. Coincidentally, data taken from recent FOX News polls have shown an increasing trend of people living in the southern midwest USA who support teaching Creationism in schools.

Based on the overlapping trends by these two independent studies I propose that a correlation may be found between believing in Creationism and contracting Ass Cancer. I propose this study be conducted by examining both the religious views of a sample of 50,000 southerners, 50,000 east coast residents, and 50,000 west coast residents and comparing the varying percentage of Ass Cancer sufferers by region and religious view.
---

See what I did there? I proposed a theory based on existing evidence and provided a sound, scientific, and logical way of testing my proposed theory. I did not say that, "I think creationists have Ass Cancer and it's up to someone else to find out if I'm right or not."

You have zero evidence to support wasting AV pops on mindlessly following what SE did. You're not even setting parameters to quantify the definition of "what SE did." Do you want us to zoom in on the lower left hand part of our screens? Do you want us to have AV facing 32.9 degrees southwest when being tanked by a RDM and 353.3 degrees northeast when being tanked by a PLD? Do you want us to pop it on lightsday? Do you want us to tank in AF1 body on RDM?

You have no parameters. It's fucking stupid. It's atrociously stupid.

If you want to contribute to the mission then do so intelligently or get the fuck out of this fucking thread. Give logical reasons why we, as a community, should accept your theories. Give specific parameters you want tested in a reasonable amount. Give parameters that can be measured directly and aren't tied in to variables that we cannot control.

Do fucking not come in here and say, for the 27,874th time that we, "just need to watch what SE did in the video" you fucking cockblasting transvestite.

I am sick of this. Kaeko is too fucking nice to crack down and nobody else cares anymore, so I'm fucking stepping in. You're not just slowing down the progress of discovering the secret to AV, you're literally slowing down the process of all science as a whole you fucktwit.

Out. Now.

[Kaeko]

I'm just here to update the OP with the relevant information. I want to have it ready for the 80 cap since it may potentially open new (or old) strategies.

I really don't care to ban anyone because, yes, I am too nice

[BerenTebogo]

I'm just here to update the OP with the relevant information. I want to have it ready for the 80 cap since it may potentially open new (or old) strategies.

I really don't care to ban anyone because, yes, I am too nice

It's ok Kaeko. I still love you.

[Mojo]

I'm just here to update the OP with the relevant information. I want to have it ready for the 80 cap since it may potentially open new (or old) strategies.

I really don't care to ban anyone because, yes, I am too nice

http://i37.tinypic.com/2dkwqie.png

Take this to keep you safe.

Really though, as long as you issue someone a warning about their behavior first, I think most bans would be welcomed by everyone who actually cares.

[thetruepandagod]

There are a finite amount of shells in existence currently who have the ability to survive against AV long enough to perform any test that can be considered meaningful enough that it contributes quantifiable data to the process of figuring out AV. By virtue of the nature of FFXI, these tests do not exist in a vacuum. Every test takes coordination, organization, time, EXP loss, pop sets, discussion, review, peer review, etc. It is a thorough and demanding process to glean any useful information whatsoever from an AV attempt.

That being said: the players in FFXI are human, as are the strategy coordinators. There is a threshold for how much stress people are willing to endure / inflict under the guise of "ffxi science." We must all, as a community, appreciate that frivolous theories are a plague upon the entire process and cast them out into exile where they belong. Every moment of discussion or thought that goes into debunking some fuckass's stupid, baseless claims are moments that are taken away from productive discussion.

preach on.

especially in this day and age in ffxi it is almost downright impossible to get the people necessary to attempt various theories anymore

[Taruking]

There are a finite amount of shells in existence currently who have the ability to survive against AV long enough to perform any test that can be considered meaningful enough that it contributes quantifiable data to the process of figuring out AV. By virtue of the nature of FFXI, these tests do not exist in a vacuum. Every test takes coordination, organization, time, EXP loss, pop sets, discussion, review, peer review, etc. It is a thorough and demanding process to glean any useful information whatsoever from an AV attempt.

That being said: the players in FFXI are human, as are the strategy coordinators. There is a threshold for how much stress people are willing to endure / inflict under the guise of "ffxi science." We must all, as a community, appreciate that frivolous theories are a plague upon the entire process and cast them out into exile where they belong. Every moment of discussion or thought that goes into debunking some fuckass's stupid, baseless claims are moments that are taken away from productive discussion.

Do fucking not come in here and say, for the 27,874th time that we, "just need to watch what SE did in the video" you fucking cockblasting transvestite.

In which part of matching AV's 2hr, casting element of the day and killing as many JOL's pet as possible does normal game mechanic or FFXI science apply? Bear in mind when AV was first introduced to FFXI the game was a lot harder for the players - no group II merits (i.e. no felty), 2h weapon adjustment, PLD adjustment, Alexander's 2hr etc. How else would you explain SE managed to survive AV with only staff wielding PLDs and RDMs? It's really pointless to try to exploit the latest additions because even if they work, chances are they will probably get patched in next update.

So far all the major discoveries or important clues can be linked back to SE's video, including matching AV's 2hr which was considered as one of the biggest breakthrough. As obvious as it is, it still took the playerbase 1year+ to finally confirm matching AV's 2hr DOES affect AV's behaviour. Imagine if SE hadn't revealed methods to lock AV's regen, the playerbase would never have found out the link between JOL's pets and AV's regen, and ppl are probably still trying to prove that nuking AV with element of the day will somehow weaken or block AV's meteor.

There is no reason to cast doubt on SE's video because they have repeatedly confirmed all the clues needed to defeat AV are already in the video. The main reason why very little progress has been made is because everyone is trying to search for clues in SE's video to block AV's Meteor. After 3 years since the release of SE's video and 80+ pages of disccusion it's probably time to accept that perhaps there are other ways to handle Bracelet Meteor i.e. by delaying Bracelet mode or weakening AV's defense so that it can be killed before Meteor spam wipe the alliance. The "scientific" approach to this will be to copy unusual features in SE's video and observe AV's behaviour. It would have at least led to discovery of the link between JOL' pets/elemental nuke and AV's regen without SE telling us what they actually do.

I agree running meaningful tests on AV can be a daunting task even if the right approach is used, and nothing kills a dedicated LS faster than recurrent failure and low morale. However things are going to change after they raise the level cap. More LS will be able to fight AV and those experienced ones will be able to do it with fewer ppl and survive longer. However, ppl are unlikely to make any progress regardless of the level cap if they only focus on finding a method to block Meteor which may not even exist in the first place.

[Aquilo86]

Have you guys tried casting silence on him?

[Forte]

Have you guys tried casting silence on him?

I hope this is a woosh. Otherwise I may have lost my faith in the FFXI community.

[arshesney]

The video was released before they added the 2 hour time limit, and there's no trace of Meteor in all of it.
Nobody knows how and what they had to deal with while chipping it down from 90% > 1%, save for the 2 hour spam he video didn't show anything new, it is pointless to keep falling back to it.

They probably do not want for AV to be beaten without anything short of the whole server, it just seems like they wanted to recreate the Sleeper in their game, and it will possibly get updated along the new level caps (unless its drops will be matched by new gear released, that is).

[Zag]

Have you guys tried casting silence on him?

LOL... no wonder I never post on AV threads.

[Aquilo86]

LOL... no wonder I never post on AV threads.

woosh!

[Darkmagi]

ftfy

[Aquilo86]

ftfy

lol i wish i could log in to post my Virtuous Saint title, but POL doesnt want my monies

[drwaffles]

Of course he was joking you fuckwits.

[Darkmagi]

Sorry it's hard to tell with all the retarded posts this thread gets.

[Aquilo86]

Of course he was joking you fuckwits.

[thetruepandagod]

god damnit waffles.

god damnit.