Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[deiopea]

what races are they? We know AV's INT at least pre-bracer

Dico and Bei are hume. Wylfred is elvaan.

[NynJa]

ithoght the shield steals buffa from mobs?

[Selcopa]

Please ignore the post count, i've been a lurker for a solid 3-4 years now, mostly on this specific thread(and related ones), i'm not intending to present some crazy stupid theory that sounds retarded to test. But instead I want to recompile a bit of the information that is somewhat in the back of everyone's heads, but in a different way. Warning, this is long

I specifically made an account and waited the time because i've watched the direction of the thread has gone, instead of crackpot theories of solving a gimmick(cast holy trolls and other stupid shit) to more numbers brute forcing through the remaining 30ish percent of AV's life (many of these techniques equally as stupid as the gimmick solving theories) Seriously, transferring a lvl restriction debuff onto AV, even if it miraculously landed on AV, it would be patched up faster than Souleater was.

I want to break down the current information we have in a different way than the 1st post displays. And a breakdown of the basic theories that have been established. The very first part of the theories is extremely simple and concrete, as it goes farther, it becomes less certain. Part one

1. We have all of the necessary gimmicks and tools necessary to defeat AV
Pretty simple, most of what has been posted as of recent is related to this theory, but I sincerely doubt anybody really believes this is the case, things such as Alexanders PD, and other weird items that come into play have given us hope that we can use the current gimmicks(2 hour locking and regen stopping) we have for AV and just force out a kill

2. There is a remaining gimmick that needs to be activated before AV is able to be defeated
I think just about everyone agrees with this theory whether they are posting information that suggests the 1st idea.

The problem with this idea. Is not only do we not know how to activate the gimmick, we don't even know what the gimmick does! This makes determining what the correct action is even more difficult. Which is why it is important to properly break down the different theories on a higher level than(use x weapon, cast this spell, this emote, shit like that) using information from this thread (Yes i have read the entire thing) I think we can agree about 3 separate theories on what the specific gimmick actually accomplishes.

NOTE: The big thing about this, is that while all of these solutions would make AV able to to be killed, only ONE of these solutions are correct, it seems obvious, but frequently when people discuss AV, one person talks about one theory, and another person references a different theory, this accomplishes nothing as no more than One of these theories can be correct
2A. Meteor is locked
Supporting Evidence: 2 Hour's are lockable, it's possible that meteor could be also locked, as it is too powerful(in bracelet mode) to be defended against. Also the video(that has been beaten to death) does not show meteor, meaning maybe it could be locked out

2B. Meteor is Weakened
Supporting Evidence: Meteor has multiple levels of power, some are more manageable than others. Perhaps there is a way to force Meteor to remain in a specific state, or to bring Meteor back to a weaker state. A side related theory is that meteor can be systematically weakened to a more managed state(like the idea that Holy can weaken it, except not such a dumbfuck retarded easy answer as that) This could be supported by we know that Regen is weakened from systematically repeated actions. Maybe Meteor can be as well?
Additional Comments: While appearing similar, this is significantly different from 2A, where one theory attempts to completely shut down Meteor, this one just wants to return Meteor to a more managed state. If we think from a designers standpoint, we could guess this one to be more 'likely' of a solution, over completely locking it, as this still leaves the challenges of Meteor(more difficulty) but still allowing AV to be defeated.

2C. Damage reduction is eliminated
Supporting Evidence: Currently damage reduction actually causes AV to be unkillable, damage is reduced by 50% at 50% health, and 60% at 40% health, its possible that at 1% health, that AV will have 99% damage reduction, and at 0.5% health, it will have 99.5% damage reduction. This would create an asymptote that causes AV to be unkillable. Which you can theorize that damage reduction must be capped or eliminated by something in order to kill AV, or else its damage reduction will make it impossible.
Additional Comments: This is more in the crackpot speculation part, so I couldn't really qualify it as evidence to support the theory. We have gimmicks that involve offense(locking 2 hours), restoration(stopping regen), but not defense (damage reduction) it could be speculated that the final gimmick is stopping the gradual increase of damage reduction(which would limit the number of meteors an alliance received)

Final Thoughts: If you made it all the way through the post I thank you, the purpose was to refocus your minds and to accept that the chances are there is a final gimmick to be unlocked. While I have nothing wrong against the pure mathematics and brute forcing people discuss(I feel that they can force AV to a lower percentage, which can provide clues such as if damage continues to decrease on par with AV's percentage life to indicate if that is a possible theory or if it gets debunked at 10% or another arbitrary number). We shouldn't rely on them as our solution to defeating AV, as I think we can accept that any kill that comes from that will be hot-patched for the next group that tries it.

I applaud anyone who is still attempting AV, I have personally never attempted him(Which is why I have never posted in this thread, I felt not posting was better than posting garbage) But I do want people to still discuss possible solutions, hopefully after reading this post people will be able to compile their gimmick theories more properly that could cause.

This is also why you can read this whole thread and say to yourself 'well that taught me nothing' because as I have never attempted him, I couldn't post anything more than garbage as far as solutions, but hopefully people can read this and be able to rethink their ideas and present them in better ways than (use holy when its casting meteor and it wont go hit the ground) shit.

Good luck to everybody.

[Aquilo86]

but hopefully people can read this and be able to rethink their ideas and present them in better ways than (use holy when its casting meteor and it wont go hit the ground) shit.

ftfy

[Selcopa]

FUCK, i read through it twice and reworded shit and apparently made it all the way through the post without an error, but nope, a speedbump in my finish.

Does not disqualify my post.

(And i definitely edited it out)

[Aquilo86]

FUCK, i read through it twice and reworded shit and apparently made it all the way through the post without an error, but nope, a speedbump in my finish.

Does not disqualify my post.

(And i definitely edited it out)

You're right, that isn't what disqualifies your post.

It's nice to see optimism, but would be nicer if it was constructive lol

(sorry to be a dick, but arbitrary post is arbitrary)

[Selcopa]

Unfortunately this is about as constructive as I could get, I can't say "Try doing this" especially with single digit post count.

And this was also a nice way of saying "stop with fucking PD and get back to thinking about the right shit"

Don't get me wrong I can speculate with the rest of them, I can draw inferences to the SE video about how now that we know about locking 2 hours we can see what they were trying to show in the video by zooming up when the dust cloud started. And other crackpot shit like the rest of them.

I think my post was better.

[Aquilo86]

Unfortunately this is about as constructive as I could get, I can't say "Try doing this" especially with single digit post count.

And this was also a nice way of saying "stop with fucking PD and get back to thinking about the right shit"

Don't get me wrong I can speculate with the rest of them, I can draw inferences to the SE video about how now that we know about locking 2 hours we can see what they were trying to show in the video by zooming up when the dust cloud started. And other crackpot shit like the rest of them.

I think my post was better.

Only by a small margin. Generally a good idea to not bump this thread unless you have something new to add, or assholes like myself will jump all over you.



Post count +1

[Bikpik]

Only by a small margin. Generally a good idea to not bump this thread unless you have something new to add, or assholes like myself will jump all over you.



Post count +1

Really what else can be added? Yes he never said anything new, but at least it wasn't "Have you tried using jailer weapons?"

He just emphasized on what needs to be overcome to take AV down, and I also believe we have the tools right now to do it, we just need to find out what it is.

[Hanyoko]

Kaeko, in the section discussing damage resistance of AV. Has it been proven that tomahawk reduces the severity of it? I think it should be noted if it does/does not apply on this case.

[Kaeko]

I'll add it in the things to be looked at. I don't know if it works or not, though I'm sure VS/apathy has tried it before since they used to try WAR zerg.

[Kingnel]

Why is SE's video of AV fight in bracelet mode part so short, just seconds really of what is the hardest part of winning the fight. Am I the only person who thinks the hume pld not facing AV and getting smacked odd? And as soon as the bracelet mode part starts the other pld seemed to just finish turning around just as this part begins aswell as if she were getting hit just before aswell like the hume. Why? Wonder if any LS's tried not facing AV and getting hit in this mode w/o the use of shadows maybe... it nags me to have never read this tested, sorry! Also I think I caught one the rdms dying after a CS Aeroga while casting earlier in the video but they cut it right as she freezes about to fall, just thought id throw that in for haha's SE. Feel free to spit on my post haha idc, I just hope I raise some eye brows out there

[drwaffles]

Why is SE's video of AV fight in bracelet mode part so short, just seconds really of what is the hardest part of winning the fight. Am I the only person who thinks the hume pld not facing AV and getting smacked odd? And as soon as the bracelet mode part starts the other pld seemed to just finish turning around just as this part begins aswell as if she were getting hit just before aswell like the hume. Why? Wonder if any LS's tried not facing AV and getting hit in this mode w/o the use of shadows maybe... it nags me to have never read this tested, sorry! Also I think I caught one the rdms dying after a CS Aeroga while casting earlier in the video but they cut it right as she freezes about to fall, just thought id throw that in for haha's SE. Feel free to spit on my post haha idc, I just hope I raise some eye brows out there

The only eyebrows you're raising are on the faces of those staring, aghast, at the overwhelming stupidity of someone posting exactly the type of useless bullshit that a mod explicitly disallowed in a HUEG post on the previous page.

[Selcopa]

Why is SE's video of AV fight in bracelet mode part so short, just seconds really of what is the hardest part of winning the fight. Am I the only person who thinks the hume pld not facing AV and getting smacked odd? And as soon as the bracelet mode part starts the other pld seemed to just finish turning around just as this part begins aswell as if she were getting hit just before aswell like the hume. Why? Wonder if any LS's tried not facing AV and getting hit in this mode w/o the use of shadows maybe... it nags me to have never read this tested, sorry! Also I think I caught one the rdms dying after a CS Aeroga while casting earlier in the video but they cut it right as she freezes about to fall, just thought id throw that in for haha's SE. Feel free to spit on my post haha idc, I just hope I raise some eye brows out there

God, no, fuck no, this is the exact thing I was bitching about when I made my post.

You didn't fucking think about what you are posting, what does turning your back to the AV accomplish, do you think its going to lock/weaken meteor, or eliminate the damage reduction? No? Then don't fucking suggest it.

The sad part is you possibly had a chance to ask a semi legitimate question, asking about why the shortness of bracelet mode on the video is not the worst question posted. And there might have been a plausible answer(Similar to when people were asking why tanks used Terra Staff, not when they were suggesting to use them, just asking why they were being used)

But no, you fucked it up, maybe we get lucky the post gets deleted.

[Salodin]

You didn't fucking think about what you are posting, what does turning your back to the AV accomplish, do you think its going to lock/weaken meteor, or eliminate the damage reduction? No? Then don't fucking suggest it.

I bet a lot of people thought the same way when people found the way to block Zantetsuken's death. Just sayin, lol.

[cdgreg]

/flamesuit on

So, according to the preliminary dat mining thread it appears barlightra may be in the dats. If we are given barlightra/bardarkra would that provide the viable boost needed to survive meteors on a consistent basis? I'm not too familiar with the elemental resistance boost a fully merited WHM can give or what numbers need to be achieved. OP says "stacking dark resists. Surviving meteor consistently...is the key to beating AV."

edit:
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showt...t=94516&page=3
post 84

[Cairthenn]

/flamesuit on

So, according to the preliminary dat mining thread it appears barlightra may be in the dats. If we are given barlightra/bardarkra would that provide the viable boost needed to survive meteors on a consistent basis? I'm not too familiar with the elemental resistance boost a fully merited WHM can give or what numbers need to be achieved. OP says "stacking dark resists. Surviving meteor consistently...is the key to beating AV."

Don't need a flamesuit. I was actually joking about this myself earlier. I'd say that if Bardark(ra) were to be implemented, Meteor might be manageable, especially considering a five level increase.

Tank Tank Bard (Normal Songs) Bard (Dark Carol) RDM WHM in PT, or something of the sort.

[Yugl]

The OP states that meteor is the reason LSs are unable to beat AV, but with the addition of Perfect Defense, LSs (Or one LS) have survived past Meteor. The problem these LSs faced was the damage reduction rather than meteor. Of course, Meteor can be a problem if you're unable to reapply Perfect Defense after it wears, but I think the damage reduction issue is a greater challenge at this point.

[Cairthenn]

The OP states that meteor is the reason LSs are unable to beat AV, but with the addition of Perfect Defense, LSs (Or one LS) have survived past Meteor. The problem these LSs faced was the damage reduction rather than meteor. Of course, Meteor can be a problem if you're unable to reapply Perfect Defense after it wears, but I think the damage reduction issue is a greater challenge at this point.

If it allowed for constant protection against meteor, figuring out how to kill it if it remains unkillable would be made loads easier.

[Kaeko]

The idea of stacking elemental resists is hard to predict. I did a lot of testing on this back in the day and it's really mob-dependent. For instance, ~330 gives you capped full resist on Tiamat (the most well documented use of the elemental resist set). ~250 caps on Sarameya. ~330 lightning is woefully insufficient on Khimaira.

It's probably a combination of LVL difference and the mob's innate accuracy on its elemental moves. Either way it's hard to predict. If they do add this, it would be well worth testing, but hard to predict if it would work.

EDIT:
Assume it was a WHM spell and caps at +130 (AF2 legs, /SCH, max merit), Carol +50. Then you ate a Jack-o-lantern (+20). This puts you at +200 without any use of gear. If AV requires ~300 to resist (need +100), this could cripple your tank gear pretty heavily.