Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Shamaya]

When you guys don't mind, everyone killing AV is using Angon + Dia 3 (on top of the usual stuff) at a minimum right? Or is this not the case.

Glad I sold my ring for 110m'z a week after vanafest. And my speed belt as well ^^
The annoying thing about going the patient, smart, for-the-long-term route is that it's such a good idea with everything changing now, but sucks since XIV is almost out and the game's so old ;/

[Mazmaz]

Why do you need to ask if those things are used for a zerg on a high DEF mob? I threw tomahawk on it too for your next obvious question.

[Neosutra]

Na, Dia3 and Angon take away the challenge.

[ronin sparthos]

Sync down to 75 and beat it on hard mode, obviously.

[Sho]

Don't insult Isa's Facebook picture.

I thought that was Mojo's Ban-Spam pic. And occasionally Sath's.

[NynJa]

The almighty failure uses sam roll without bothering to adjust x-hit builds? Are you serious or is this just you refusing to admit that you're not perfect by pointing out one of your imperfections?

I dont like Failure at all, but you have different builds for each of the 11 Samurai roll results? Jesus fuck, get a god damn life. Not only now are you doing changes based on active buffs...you're micromanaging your chatlog to see what your rolls at, to gear accordingly?

W O W

[urat]

Actually to be honest in a fast paced haste build, swapping your macro every 5 minutes isn't that fucking hard.

One has a rose strap, one doesn't, etc etc, hell the since the sets are 90% identical its a fucking copy paste and then you delete 1-2 lines.

If you're at 70+% haste and can swap out one piece of store tp gear for double attack or haste or attack or anything because the cor roll bumped you up over the need for it to hit a x-hit build, you're looking at a notable increase to your damage.

When I'm getting cor rolls and dont have it filtered I don't even need to try to go "oh hey I've got a 5, cool he hit lucky" or, "oh damn he hit 8, there goes my acc" or whatever the hell it is. the next logical step to "Oh hey his roll was higher than this, I can start hitting Ctrl 4 instead of Ctrl 3" doesn't require a superior skill of micromanaging and OCD ffxi watching.

Plow and I don't normally see eye to eye on things but I'm with him on this one. It's not exactly rocket science to figure out that if you don't need a piece of store tp gear and you have an available piece that's more useful, swapping them is kind of a good idea.

[Thorny]

It's a shame the first coherent post Urat has ever made has an entirely retarded premise.

[NynJa]

When I'm getting cor rolls and dont have it filtered I don't even need to try to go "oh hey I've got a 5, cool he hit lucky" or, "oh damn he hit 8, there goes my acc" or whatever the hell it is. the next logical step to "Oh hey his roll was higher than this, I can start hitting Ctrl 4 instead of Ctrl 3" doesn't require a superior skill of micromanaging and OCD ffxi watching.

Its not just ctrl+4 and ctrl+3 for TP sets, because all your WS builds will have to be different as well...so you'll have to accomodate for all that, not to mention accomodate for the change in STP that may happen in the following scenario:
Cor uses Sam Roll, hits 3
DD hits mob
Cor uses Sam roll, now 7
DD hits mob
STP counts allllllllllllll fucked up, unless the cor is only rolling on downtime, and if theres downtime your pt sucks.


And....shit....lets face it:
http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74911
Good luck w/ that

[Plow]

Its not just ctrl+4 and ctrl+3 for TP sets, because all your WS builds will have to be different as well...so you'll have to accomodate for all that, not to mention accomodate for the change in STP that may happen in the following scenario:
Cor uses Sam Roll, hits 3
DD hits mob
Cor uses Sam roll, now 7
DD hits mob
STP counts allllllllllllll fucked up, unless the cor is only rolling on downtime, and if theres downtime your pt sucks.

You're probably only going to change grips for very specific situations like 11 while prepping for AV, which is not hard to account for, but that's an aside, just pointing out that we're not talking about merit parties and it's pretty fucking silly to argue that you can never use downtime effectively in FFXI.

Now, here's a really crazy concept, it's pretty intense and complex:

Copypasta your macros to various sets. If you're too high to remember, you can just use 10 sets for with a sam, and 10 sets for without a sam.

Every single set has a "max stp" button for if you fall below x*20 or x*25.

See roll, hit alt+up or down to the number that was rolled.

Really, really difficult stuff there, way more challenging than figuring out how to beat AV.


If you're not clueless, you realize you won't need more than 5 sets per given that they're unlikely to sit on 1,3,4,5,6, and they all have their own + a max stp set. So, yes, you can do literally everything you guys are bitching about being too complicated by fucking scrolling your macro sets up and down within one book, and you can even make it impossible to forget what's where if you must.


Again, I honestly cannot believe people are still going on in the fucking AV thread about how you should fulltime stuff because macro swaps are too hard.

[Cairthenn]

Actually to be honest in a fast paced haste build, swapping your macro every 5 minutes isn't that fucking hard.

One has a rose strap, one doesn't, etc etc, hell the since the sets are 90% identical its a fucking copy paste and then you delete 1-2 lines.

If you're at 70+% haste and can swap out one piece of store tp gear for double attack or haste or attack or anything because the cor roll bumped you up over the need for it to hit a x-hit build, you're looking at a notable increase to your damage.

When I'm getting cor rolls and dont have it filtered I don't even need to try to go "oh hey I've got a 5, cool he hit lucky" or, "oh damn he hit 8, there goes my acc" or whatever the hell it is. the next logical step to "Oh hey his roll was higher than this, I can start hitting Ctrl 4 instead of Ctrl 3" doesn't require a superior skill of micromanaging and OCD ffxi watching.

Plow and I don't normally see eye to eye on things but I'm with him on this one. It's not exactly rocket science to figure out that if you don't need a piece of store tp gear and you have an available piece that's more useful, swapping them is kind of a good idea.

Because the excess store TP is always a bad thing.

[Shamaya]

Na, Dia3 and Angon take away the challenge.

I know it sounded like a silly question. Just because people post on BG doesn't mean I trust that they're always doing things correctly. I asked with a sort of followup in mind. People were saying that in his current status, you're not guaranteed a zerg win even a very good setup since you're not locking his AI with a super-fast kill. And even then, wins still weren't guaranteed.

I was more-so wondering if people were adding a bit more to their zergs to increase win probability even more. Namely box step and light shot for 10% more cumulative def down. There are other measures you could take to create more DPS, but I think adding these two to the fight via /add /drop would be the next best gain for the least amount of effort. I imagine for the better LS's & bigger ones, it wouldn't be overly cumbersome. I didn't see people even mentioning anything beyond bards & DD's, so I couldn't be sure how well-orchestrated their zergs really were.

[Greatguardian]

I'm curious about the flow of the fight, considering the kill itself is a 100-second zerg. Am I totally off in assuming the fight goes something like:
1) Pop JoL, fight JoL, kill off JoL's pets until he only pops sharks
2) kill JoL, engage AV with an alliance consisting of 1 DD party capable of tanking/holding AV, and 1 party of Blms to spam spells to negate his regen
3) once regen is negated, drop Blms and add the other 2 DD parties
4) fully buff the alliance with multiple player swaps, have one fully buffed DD drop for a Thf
5) PD, Thf toss on Feint/TH and drop for the buffed DD (or just stay in and pretend it can DD), zerg like hell gg hf dont die.

?

Or is holding him impossible and/or too resource-hungry for a group of zerg-worthy DDs to do? In which case, how is hate properly transferred from the Tanking/holding group to the Zerg group without either losing claim on AV or having 1-6 wasted slots in an alliance for risk of AV staying claimed to holders?

[Cairthenn]

I'm fairly certain it's sac'd until the DD alliance is ready and a RDM (maybe 2?) Chainspells the remaining Regen away. Could be wrong.

[Greatguardian]

That makes a lot more sense, thanks. I haven't noticed much actual presentation of fight details, and a few people in other threads had been grossly oversimplifying the fight to the point where I wasn't sure if Regen was even being accounted for or not. I was completely overlooking sac'ing it because of the multiple claim losses, but come to think of it I'm not really sure who'd actually try to steal a 100% AV >.>'

[FailureMidgard]

You're probably only going to change grips for very specific situations like 11 while prepping for AV, which is not hard to account for, but that's an aside, just pointing out that we're not talking about merit parties and it's pretty fucking silly to argue that you can never use downtime effectively in FFXI.

Yea dude, totally worth dropping 300TP at the start while you're already putting buffs up to compensate for the 11 Sam roll. We even then send all our bards that have already SVed back to reset their 2hrs so we can change from a Pole to a Sword Strap.

Again, I honestly cannot believe people are still going on in the fucking AV thread about how you should fulltime stuff because macro swaps are too hard.

Now, here's a really crazy concept, it's pretty intense and complex:

The gain you are talking about is literally not even a fucking gain. You -still- haven't posted a single set for me to rip apart and show you that Rajas is still ideal because it has 5str and 5dex. Also, are you aware that we get hit by a ton of shit vs AV? Just throwing that out there, we're zerging him without a CSS, he has 300tp at all times, Impact Stream is AoE, Explosive Impulse is AoE, Meteor is AoE, he melees, etc. Overflowed TP is also added damage (did you even take this into account when you talk about this bullshit, 3 extra TP on your WS is probably just as much dmg as the swaps you're suggesting.

As a side note, I'm estimating my attack in the ~1400-1500 range when we fight AV. On the other hand, my STR is no higher than normal, STR really is the best stat to stack if you're dropping anything. And surprise, Rajas has that on it too! I already pointed out my accuracy from the parses I had. Oh ya, we don't use Sam roll on AV either. :/

I know it sounded like a silly question. Just because people post on BG doesn't mean I trust that they're always doing things correctly. I asked with a sort of followup in mind. People were saying that in his current status, you're not guaranteed a zerg win even a very good setup since you're not locking his AI with a super-fast kill. And even then, wins still weren't guaranteed.

I'm hurt. We had a rdm merit 5/5 dia3 for PW and AV. Also, you definitely do lock his AI if you do it fast enough...no idea where you got the idea you didn't.

I was more-so wondering if people were adding a bit more to their zergs to increase win probability even more. Namely box step and light shot for 10% more cumulative def down. There are other measures you could take to create more DPS, but I think adding these two to the fight via /add /drop would be the next best gain for the least amount of effort. I imagine for the better LS's & bigger ones, it wouldn't be overly cumbersome. I didn't see people even mentioning anything beyond bards & DD's, so I couldn't be sure how well-orchestrated their zergs really were.

Honestly, I think we're capping attack currently and he has a high -DT, or level correction which was determined to be applied after the cap, not before. Since all the specifics are coming out anyway, we have 9 DDs, 3 dncs, 3 mages and 3 open slots in our ally for the zerg. We all have RCB, 6 songs, and 2 rolls. We use our 3 open slots to be sure we have appropriate debuffs. We rotate through multiple people in those open slots throughout the duration of the ~85-90 second fight to ensure everything is up (and QQ it sucks being the organizer/party leader, really hurts my parses!).

And, just posting one of our parses since Mojo asked earlier and I never did. This was one of our earlier kills. Note Gekko average and Kaiten average, since then Kaiten has consistently done better, which is where I draw my conclusion that we are attack capped and he has -DT or a bad level correction, I don't feel the attack boost on Gekko does much.

And yes, we kill regen (both ways), then wipe, then sac while people job change.

Spoiler: show

Damage Summary
Player               Total Dmg   Damage %   Melee Dmg   Range Dmg   Abil. Dmg  WSkill Dmg   Spell Dmg  Other Dmg
Avelle                    7699    10.58 %        2382           0           0        5317           0          0
Failure                   8537    11.73 %        3958           0           0        4579           0          0
Kaishen                   1894     2.60 %        1521           0           0         373           0          0
Killkenny                 6965     9.57 %        2227           0           0        4738           0          0
Mazmaz                    7790    10.71 %        3375           0           0        4415           0          0
Milleuda                  1531     2.10 %        1435           0           0          96           0          0
Pugnax                    8106    11.14 %        3273           0           0        4833           0          0
Rhealana                  5274     7.25 %        2263           0         347        2664           0          0
Salmijr                   2423     3.33 %        1827           0           0         596           0          0
Ukeza                     7083     9.73 %        2264           0           0        4819           0          0
Wiegraf                   7669    10.54 %        3332           0           0        4337           0          0
Zeratu                    7744    10.64 %        2633           0           0        5111           0          0
Wuffi                       30     0.04 %          26           0           4           0           0          0
SC: Fragmentation           14     0.02 %           0           0           0           0           0          0
Total                    72759   100.00 %       30516           0         351       41878           0          0


Melee Damage
Player            Melee Dmg   Melee %   Hit/Miss   M.Acc %  M.Low/Hi    M.Avg  #Crit  C.Low/Hi   C.Avg     Crit%
Avelle                 2382   30.94 %       40/2   95.24 %     21/96    50.38      8    74/119   96.25   20.00 %
Failure                3958   46.36 %       41/0  100.00 %    47/318    92.61      3    94/209  146.33    7.32 %
Kaishen                1521   80.31 %      110/8   93.22 %      2/29    12.86      6     24/44   30.67    5.45 %
Killkenny              2227   31.97 %       31/8   79.49 %    45/118    69.55      2   102/108  105.00    6.45 %
Mazmaz                 3375   43.32 %       47/1   97.92 %     35/87    54.72     22    77/109   91.23   46.81 %
Milleuda               1435   93.73 %      129/6   95.56 %      0/26     9.42     14     18/41   25.14   10.85 %
Pugnax                 3273   40.38 %       35/3   92.11 %    40/114    62.35     18    88/206  122.94   51.43 %
Rhealana               2263   42.91 %       31/2   93.94 %    32/143    63.67      4    93/216  136.00   12.90 %
Salmijr                1827   75.40 %     109/30   78.42 %      1/28    14.09     14     29/55   34.86   12.84 %
Ukeza                  2264   31.96 %       46/0  100.00 %      9/42    29.55     17    60/108   82.76   36.96 %
Wiegraf                3332   43.45 %       36/1   97.30 %    30/128    87.09      2   163/208  185.50    5.56 %
Zeratu                 2633   34.00 %       33/3   91.67 %     24/79    47.21     14    78/176  124.00   42.42 %
Wuffi                    26   86.67 %        1/1   50.00 %     26/26    26.00      0       0/0    0.00    0.00 %


Weaponskill Damage
Player                 WSkill Dmg   WSkill %  Hit/Miss   WS.Acc %   WS.Low/Hi   WS.Avg
Avelle                       5317    69.06 %      12/0   100.00 %     276/722   443.08
 - Tachi: Gekko              5317   100.00 %      12/0   100.00 %     276/722   443.08
Failure                      4579    53.64 %      11/2    84.62 %     305/696   416.27
 - Tachi: Gekko              4579   100.00 %      11/2    84.62 %     305/696   416.27
Kaishen                       373    19.69 %       2/0   100.00 %     148/225   186.50
 - Dancing Edge               148    39.68 %       1/0   100.00 %     148/148   148.00
 - Pyrrhic Kleos              225    60.32 %       1/0   100.00 %     225/225   225.00
Killkenny                    4738    68.03 %      10/2    83.33 %     282/761   473.80
 - Tachi: Gekko              2650    55.93 %       6/1    85.71 %     282/594   441.67
 - Tachi: Kaiten             2088    44.07 %       4/1    80.00 %     379/761   522.00
Mazmaz                       4415    56.68 %       9/1    90.00 %       0/838   490.56
 - King's Justice            4415   100.00 %       9/0   100.00 %     205/838   490.56
 - Steel Cyclone                0     0.00 %       0/1     0.00 %         0/0     0.00
Milleuda                       96     6.27 %       1/0   100.00 %       96/96    96.00
 - Pyrrhic Kleos               96   100.00 %       1/0   100.00 %       96/96    96.00
Pugnax                       4833    59.62 %       7/0   100.00 %    215/1054   690.43
 - King's Justice            2628    54.38 %       3/0   100.00 %    584/1054   876.00
 - Raging Rush               1393    28.82 %       3/0   100.00 %     215/712   464.33
 - Steel Cyclone              812    16.80 %       1/0   100.00 %     812/812   812.00
Rhealana                     2664    50.51 %       8/0   100.00 %     191/629   333.00
 - Drakesbane                2664   100.00 %       8/0   100.00 %     191/629   333.00
Salmijr                       596    24.60 %       5/0   100.00 %      76/174   119.20
 - Pyrrhic Kleos              596   100.00 %       5/0   100.00 %      76/174   119.20
Ukeza                        4819    68.04 %       9/0   100.00 %    135/1832   535.44
 - King's Justice            2987    61.98 %       8/0   100.00 %     135/832   373.38
 - Steel Cyclone             1832    38.02 %       1/0   100.00 %   1832/1832  1832.00
Wiegraf                      4337    56.55 %       8/0   100.00 %     370/779   542.13
 - Guillotine                4337   100.00 %       8/0   100.00 %     370/779   542.13
Zeratu                       5111    66.00 %       6/1    85.71 %    254/1868   851.83
 - Steel Cyclone             5111   100.00 %       6/1    85.71 %    254/1868   851.83


Ability Damage
Player                  Abil. Dmg    Abil. %  Hit/Miss    A.Acc %    A.Low/Hi    A.Avg
Rhealana                      347     6.58 %       5/0   100.00 %      28/110    69.40
 - High Jump                   72    20.75 %       2/0   100.00 %       28/44    36.00
 - Jump                       275    79.25 %       3/0   100.00 %      77/110    91.67
Wuffi                           4    13.33 %       1/0   100.00 %         4/4     4.00
 - Lightning Breath             4   100.00 %       1/0   100.00 %         4/4     4.00


Spell Damage
Player                  Spell Dmg   Spell %  #Spells  #Fail  S.Low/Hi     S.Avg  #MBurst  MB.Low/Hi   MB.Avg
Alphaone                        0    0.00 %        1      0       0/0      0.00        0        0/0     0.00
 - Dia III                      0    0.00 %        1      0       0/0      0.00        0        0/0     0.00


Skillchain Damage
Skillchain          SC Dmg  # SC  SC.Low/Hi  SC.Avg
SC: Fragmentation       14     1      14/14   14.00

[Rhealana]

Oh sure, post the parse where I actually have less than 100% ACC.

Not that it matters, my #s in every fight seems to be around the same.

[Ukeza]

Only posting parses where you win... What a jerk.

[FailureMidgard]

Only posting parses where you win... What a jerk.

Of course. I dunno why you all lost when I hit 150+ TP so often typing out multiple invites midfight.

[pugnax179]

Of course. I dunno why you all lost when I hit 150+ TP so often typing out multiple invites midfight.

cause im one of the inviters for the fight too... o wait i came second