Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Michelob]

i think people would argue the simple " kill it before it kills you " way is valid and legit. its how 99% of ffxi mobs are handled. why should AV be an exception?

You could argue that same point for KC zerg kills; that doesn't mean it won't get adjusted.

[Shin Volcano]

The real question is, even if they do adjust AV is killing him the "normal way" going to be worth the effort, they should know by now no one is going to bother. drops are decent, but 2 hours of tedious headach fighting, lock 2 hours and end up getting an "oops" benediction isn't worth the trouble, why do they want him not defeated easily so bad? i guess this is just one of thier trademark ( near undefeatable mob unless you exploit some trick) enemies.

FF7 emerald/ruby weapon

FF8 omega weapon

FF9 (i actually don't remember this one, maybe someone knows edit: it was ozma)

ff10 ( dark aeons/final boss after killing all

ff10-2 paragon (i think that's his name)

so ya, every FF has this incredibly hard mob that you will break a few windows trying to beat.

[fredjanx]

FF8 is Omega weapon (FF9 is Ozma). FF10 is Penance (afaik he's a pushover - Dark Anima is tougher).
Though, I can totally see SE adding a new "uber tough" nm in the December update.

[Zag]

In the Fanfest video with the 2 japanese host guys, (after getting hard-ons when Sage sundi showed them the level cap announcement and the ultimate magian weapons announcement), they asked if AV would be killable by 6 players at lvl 99.

I think it was Sage Sundi that said 6 level 99 players with "ultimate weapons" could possibly defeat AV. With that being said, I don't think they intended you to lock his 2 hours with 6 ppl only at level 99.

P.S

When he refers to "ultimate weapons" I have no idea which weapons he means from the mythic/relic/empyrean line etc, but they did say the "final form" of the magian weapons is the "ultimate weapon"

[frodnonnag]

Attention: Butthurt Casual.

I see that you're upset that your (presumably) only job has little use in endgame. Don't worry so much about the nerf, you're not getting into a ls that can kill AV based off of having alexander. Your use is not affected in any way because any competent linkshell has enough SMN burned mules from last year to cover any amount of PDs. You should consider leveling another job if you're mad about your lack of utility for endgame.

Thank you for your time, sincerely yours,

Thorny

I've pulled smn as my only capped job since roughly before toau came out. i've watched it go from a weakass pile of shit, to a good hybrid job with some noteworthy buffs and a good source of flexible damage. Next patch should be interesting, seeing as we'll get refresh, cure 4, and presumably another tier worth of pacts (my bet is on new buffs).

perfect defense gave us the one thing i always felt we were lacking in, something to do for zerg events. the job was always useful in almost every other situation in the game, but in a straight up zerg, there was little use.


the only complaint i have anymore is a relatively minor one. i wish avatar's favor would also turn off their defensive auto attack.

Currently we are:
the best refresh outside of g-horn bard (with dream shroud too)
the best haste
the longest duration stun
the single biggest hit to HNM
the only job with deathga

[Fottiti]

Omega Weapon had a 100% set attack pattern as best I can remember and was more of a puzzle than a typical act and react fight. Ozma was really easy, you'd just spend a lot of time casting raise/phoenix downs. Penance just required you to spam quick hit for an hour~. Then we can't forget Yiazmat from 12 which took 2-3 hours if you killed it FAST.

[FailureMidgard]

the best refresh outside of g-horn bard (with dream shroud too)

Only if you do basically nothing else. The bard has a 50% slow and dispel at the same time, and gives tanks/DDs different songs.

the best haste

Laziest haste. Can't haste out of party (ok, you can now with /whm), can't re-haste quickly after a dispel. Can't haste if you get amnesia'd.

the longest duration stun

The longest cooldown longest casttime stun.

the single biggest hit to HNM

Lol? Big grats, sadly even when 2 SMNs both Odin at the start of a fight, and BP on cooldown with perfect sets, a single Sam will still do more damage over the course of a fight (to say Odin).

the only job with deathga

Again, lol? How does this matter in the least? I guess you have a place to kill Darters if I thundaga all of them for fun? The thing is, unless your only goal is to kill a bunch of adds once, DD or BLMs will kill far more if you extend the time to even 10min.

[Hyriu]

Currently we are:
the best refresh outside of g-horn bard (with dream shroud too)
the best haste
the longest duration stun
the single biggest hit to HNM
the only job with deathga

Holy fuck you're an idiot.

Not even gonna point out why, it's too obvious.

[Fottiti]

Currently we are:
the best refresh outside of g-horn bard (with dream shroud too)

Only applies to situations where your pt will be stationary and there is no crowd control where you may potentially get hate and have avatar wake slept mobs.

the best haste

The most mp efficient way of hasting, only if all your melees are in a group and can't reapply instantly if it gets dispelled after ward has just been used.

the longest duration stun

Stun is most useful when its stunning a spell (which smn can't do if it has fastcast) or in reaction to a melee getting his shit pushed in and giving time to recast shadows.

the single biggest hit to HNM

Not really sure how many practical applications this has, in almost every situation the total damage put out over a period of time will be whats looked at, and far higher on any other DD).

the only job with deathga

Zant is great for chest bitch in abyssea exp or 1-2 smns to open some fights with.

[Milkster]

Question to Resonance, Do you believe that if you swapped the 3 DNCs with 3 other DDs that it would still be possible to do the fight w/o Haste Samba and such?

[Cairthenn]

You think a single DD per party will make up that much damage?

Hint: You're crazy.

[Nightfyre]

No DNCs would be kinda like that fight were Reso had no Angon, except worse. Probably doable, but certainly less reliable.

[Salmijr]

In our parses, the 3 Dnc combined added up to one of the other DDs. So if you think your 2 DDs are going to make up for the lack of 10% haste , and whatever box steps the Dnc can land, then sure?

Having experienced a 3% and 1% wipe, you really dont wanna sacrifice speed. Every second AV is alive in bracelets mode is one second closer to an oshit moment.

[frodnonnag]

Only applies to situations where your pt will be stationary and there is no crowd control where you may potentially get hate and have avatar wake slept mobs.

read: my complaint, and we also have dream shroud for blm buffs, and nightmare to help with crowd control. the only instances crowd control become an issue are ein and dyna, and in both cases, shit shouldn't live past 1 sleepga.

The most mp efficient way of hasting, only if all your melees are in a group and can't reapply instantly if it gets dispelled after ward has just been used.

hastega's 5 minutes long as of this patch brosef, and we now have subjob haste.

Stun is most useful when its stunning a spell (which smn can't do if it has fastcast) or in reaction to a melee getting his shit pushed in and giving time to recast shadows.

chaotic strike is best as a preempting stun, great for weak smn/nin mobs in dyna, or actions that happen at certain %s, 5 seconds is a very long time, and preempting with that can be pretty amazing, often the difference between a potential wipe, or completely stopping/ranging a devastating move.

Not really sure how many practical applications this has, in almost every situation the total damage put out over a period of time will be whats looked at, and far higher on any other DD).

just looking at a AV parse on a recent page, the highest any single DD got was just under 12%. we can do 10%... instantly, with 1 spell, without the need for an absurd amount of bard swapping, ridiculous gear, or excessive potential for fuckups. why is it a bad idea to replace a DD or two with smn when zerging AV again?

Zant is great for chest bitch in abyssea exp or 1-2 smns to open some fights with.

pretty much, the only instances i can see where zant isn't a good opener, usually PD is.

[Ceberoth]

AV dead on Carbuncle. AVslayer LS, JP team up LS. 2 Apoc, x2 Bravura, x1 DRG Mythic

[sruon]

i'm a retard

Thought so.

[Nightmarelord]

AV dead on Carbuncle. AVslayer LS, JP team up LS. 2 Apoc, x2 Bravura, x1 DRG Mythic

POIDH.

[Ceberoth]

http://bison05.blog93.fc2.com/#entry89

Click the blue squiggly's at the bottom of the first post to expand it.

[FailureMidgard]

chaotic strike is best as a preempting stun, great for weak smn/nin mobs in dyna, or actions that happen at certain %s, 5 seconds is a very long time, and preempting with that can be pretty amazing, often the difference between a potential wipe, or completely stopping/ranging a devastating move.

Dynamis is rough and you wipe often without a smn stun! Right...

just looking at a AV parse on a recent page, the highest any single DD got was just under 12%. we can do 10%... instantly, with 1 spell, without the need for an absurd amount of bard swapping, ridiculous gear, or excessive potential for fuckups. why is it a bad idea to replace a DD or two with smn when zerging AV again?

Since you're posting in the fucking AV thread, I suggest you read the fucking AV thread. Start with my long write-up of exactly what we did, and read my comment as to why damage before 60% is mostly irrelevant. You -want- AV to use a single 2hr before bracelets mode. If you force him too fast, HE WON'T, and his first 2hr will be after bracelets and will be a combination. It vastly increases the chances he fucks you over.

Past this, he seems to gain roughly -50% dmg taken at 60% and we have all of our DDs 2hring at that point in time. The goal is to win the fight, not cheese the parse with extra damage when it's "easier". Nice attempt on trying to be useful though.

It's funny how you're almost a week late to the thread though...it's almost like we just had this entire discussion, and my entire argument against it was how much Odin increases the "excessive potential for fuckups."

[Lovex]

How much are you guys selling Sash's for on the average? I'd imagine they will take a huge downfall in price soon, especially if bullwhip is like every other drop in abbysea. (not rare). Although Sash is "all jobs", still its amazing how much the level cap gear has made even AV/PW drops not nearly as nice anymore. Not to mention seeing AV/PW drops are very high drop rate, unless they adjust them, market will likely be flooded by the end of this year.

I can't see why SE would care enough to keep adjusting AV when it's gear isn't top tier anymore and a lot of it might even be less than secondary choices at 99. It depends on what they release stat wise and how easy it is the obtain VS. said means.

I remember when you couldn't buy sash for 200M, now theres ones on ffxiah for 50m. Even that seems too high IMO.

KCLUB hasnt dropped much and probably wont ever. One of the only items in ffxi to remain the absolute best for its said use, through all the years in FFXI.


Ahhhh memories!