Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Yugl]

Tough it out as in using a strategy and not relying on a "trick" so it say. I think of PW when I say that since there's no real trick to that NM, he's just difficult (Though you may need a specific strategy like BLUs to win).

Before we go there. No, this is not a comparison of PW and AV. It's just a clarification of what I mean by a term I used.

[Enygma55]

AV is riddled with gimmicks and tricks. Its kinda what the dev team wanted in an Ultimate Unkillable mob.

Best guess so far is locking all 15 2hrs will have some significant weakening of AV

[Zhane]

Try the 15-in-1 idea? After trying what you are already going to do... It doesn't sound too far fetched to me. And reduces his "hassle factor" by the slightest margin if successful.

[Narse]

Really simple way to test this: Try to lock Call Wyvern when it uses a 2hr that isn't Call Wyvern (can make sure to not fuck this up by waiting until the 2hr after Call Wyvern, since it won't repeat a 2hr). If it stops using Call Wyvern, you can lock any 2hr after he does a 2hr.

[Ophannus]

SCH's nyzul WS lowers MAB by 8%, could help somewhat lol...

[Virtuous Saint]

SCH's nyzul WS lowers MAB by 8%, could help somewhat lol...

Thought of that, it will not land. I have never tested it but Vidohunir I did test twice, and it doesn't land so I assume Omni is the same.

[Suiram]

Even if it does land, it'd only be a 3.4% reduction in damage. Possibly less during Manafont/Bracelets if the damage increase is a MAB increase rather than a second multiplier.

(This if the reduction is MAB-8, I am taking your word on this since I've never tested it. It's possibly wrong since whoever it was that determined it probably tested in ballista and inferred incorrectly from that.)

[donnie]

the thoughts I have about AV right now are:

I remember with nuking wynavs at the same time glitch, sometimes it locks AV so that he only melees the whole time , and some time he will still cast spells? so if somehow he tries to go through the other 3x 2hr from wynavs and just recycle through them, what makes him unable to cast meteor below 79% ? he was still casting spell no? so if meteor is in the spell list it should be accessible, unless its treated on its own.

so Meteor possibly lockable? or it has todo with nuking wynavs over and over? The SE video showed a rdm/thf diaga the wynavs and FLEE , while they could have just nuked them right away and its somehow in middle of the video ( but he should be above 59% since only 3 wynavs spawned) so it might be possible that they kept nuking wynavs and not locking DRG so that nuking wynavs over and over weakens meteor?

this goes hand in hand with nuking JoL pets x10 times removes its regen , nuking certain amount of nukes on AV kills his regen. Nuking AV Pets 10x times takes or weakens meteor. also he tends to use call wyvran very often.

_________________

another thought is how did AV 2hrs in SE video 1sec before getting Killed, if they locked most the 2hrs, shouldn't he be unable to use the 2hrs more then once after 59%? especially with no combos to go with. It has to be either 2 things, they actually didn't lock anything but brd blm rdm sam and whm, which still not possible since he will be too powerful to handle after 59%, or that you can leave specific 2hrs that he will rotate between them which make him unable to cast meteor during them aka drk,war,mnk.

again its just a train of thoughts i am thrown it out here, I just believe it cant be complicated its either a repetitive thing you do to weak meteor, or something you counter with. I don't think they add new element to it.

[Virtuous Saint]

the thoughts I have about AV right now are:

I remember with nuking wynavs at the same time glitch, sometimes it locks AV so that he only melees the whole time , and some time he will still cast spells? so if somehow he tries to go through the other 3x 2hr from wynavs and just recycle through them, what makes him unable to cast meteor below 79% ? he was still casting spell no? so if meteor is in the spell list it should be accessible, unless its treated on its own.

so Meteor possibly lockable? or it has todo with nuking wynavs over and over? The SE video showed a rdm/thf diaga the wynavs and FLEE , while they could have just nuked them right away and its somehow in middle of the video ( but he should be above 59% since only 3 wynavs spawned) so it might be possible that they kept nuking wynavs and not locking DRG so that nuking wynavs over and over weakens meteor?

this goes hand in hand with nuking JoL pets x10 times removes its regen , nuking certain amount of nukes on AV kills his regen. Nuking AV Pets 10x times takes or weakens meteor. also he tends to use call wyvran very often.

_________________

another thought is how did AV 2hrs in SE video 1sec before getting Killed, if they locked most the 2hrs, shouldn't he be unable to use the 2hrs more then once after 59%? especially with no combos to go with. It has to be either 2 things, they actually didn't lock anything but brd blm rdm sam and whm, which still not possible since he will be too powerful to handle after 59%, or that you can leave specific 2hrs that he will rotate between them which make him unable to cast meteor during them aka drk,war,mnk.

again its just a train of thoughts i am thrown it out here, I just believe it cant be complicated its either a repetitive thing you do to weak meteor, or something you counter with. I don't think they add new element to it.

I don't remember if it was able to cast spells when in that glitch, but I am pretty sure it wasn't able to change modes aka 79%=Meteor, Comet, and Explosive Impulse, 59%=Bracelets. If it wasn't able to change modes then it couldn't have casted Meteor even if it was able to cast the entire time. The number of pets required to lock the JoL potion of the regen is also undetermined, and never will be known, so it might not be 10 sets. There could be a way to weaken Meteor through killing wynavs but we tried it before and it seemingly had no effect, but we only killed about 6-8 sets if I remember correctly.

I don't think you guys understand the concept of random Meteor and bracelets 2hrs. Once it reaches 59% it brings out bracelets as long as it isn't currently doing an action such as having a duration 2hr up, if it does then it will bring out bracelets when the 2hr or action is complete. If you leave up 2hrs, for example Mighty Strikes > Hundred Fists is a combination, it will use these and be unable to cast during their duration, but as soon as they are complete it will immediately cast and WS.

Then it will have considerable down time before it uses another set of 2hrs, and obviously in this time frame it will continue to WS and cast normally. There is no way to make AV go from 1 2hr to another with no down time, there is a wait time and no matter what it will not 2hr until it is up.

I watched one of our videos of AV where we left Mighty Strikes and Hundred Fists up, when it got to bracelets it used MS>HF combination, and never 2hred again afterward. There were 2 separate dust clouds for MS and HF as could be expected, and they were approx. 3-4sec apart. In the SE dev AV video that final 2hr, the only one you see in bracelets mode is used directly before it dies (1sec maybe), this I believe is the reason you only see 1 dust cloud in that video, but it would have used another if it was up slightly longer. I don't know why they left any 2hrs up, but I do know that leaving 2hrs up is not going to save you from bracelets Meteors which will happen whether it can 2hr or not.

[donnie]

hmmm, I just checked SE video again and the rdm flee while at the same time someone matched call wyvran so meh, but I still wouldn't rule out the idea wynavs can be linked to meteor somehow ( its not like there are a pool of ideas to test). if anything should nuke them on the element of the day, or the element that overrides it, i.e wind to earth since they will be casting stonaga III if its earth day.

and as for leaving some 2hrs up, its just the fact his downtime is approx 1min between each 2hr so in a sense you might get 35-40% of time past 59% meteor free. Doesn't rule out a possible wipe from 2 meteor happening during that 1min though.

in any case, I don't think thats what SE did since 1 meteor past 59% would have wiped them and they werent using ramp.

##@$#@$#@ need to think more :S

[Diomer]

Interestingly enough, I fought an AV once that didn't Meteor during Manafont. We were in sea messing around with UFOs and some LS was taking a painfully long time to down JoL. They had alot of trouble and finally got it down and we played with their AV once they did. It used manafont either as the first or 2nd 2 hour and did 4x Comet in that time. I found it rather odd it didn't do Meteor and I think it's possible it might've been locked. Unfortunately, we only had a few people and were messing around as you can see. This was ~5 months ago so my memory is a little hazy

Here's the log:
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/6...0427233628.png
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/7...0427233633.png
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/5...0427233641.png
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4...0427233646.png
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/4...0427233652.png
http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/3...0427233657.png
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/2...0427233702.png

[donnie]

its very interesting for the fact it was 50sec duration after manafont. I can only relate that to something that was done during JoL phase since you said they took a long time. Did you do anything out of ordinary in those 2mins before manafont?

[Diomer]

its very interesting for the fact it was 50sec duration after manafont. I can only relate that to something that was done during JoL phase since you said they took a long time. Did you do anything out of ordinary in those 2mins before manafont?

Like I said, don't really remember much but nothing out of the ordinary besides the JOL fight that LS had.

[Skjie]

Testing if you can lock 2HR from outside party would be easiest with DRG and the most obvious to test.

[blmallesandra]

they aren't non-elemental, they are dark. I resisted both KB's meteors and AV's with a dark elemental build of around 200, granted I only got a few resists against AV, but if you had best possible you could likely resist with decent frequency. The thing about having a dark element build is obviously you can't have much, if any -MDT +MDB gear if you want to resist with any noticeable frequency so if you don't resist you are very likely dead, unless it is a non-manafonted, non-bracelets meteor, e.g. 60-79%HP.

VS, in your Dark Elemental build, are you using a Flawless Ribbon as your head piece?
(Dark/Light +30 and Increases resistance to all status ailments)

The reason I ask is this:

- If you are using a Flawless Ribbon, it's still possible that Comet/Meteor are "not" elemental magic based, and that you are only resisting Meteor with the Flawless Ribbon's resist to enfeebling magic trait; like using the PLD job ability "Fealty".

- Screenshots show that Fealty reduces Meteor damage - leading us to believe that Meteor is Enfeebling magic and not Elemental Magic. If Meteor was Elemental Magic, it might make more sense that Rampart would be used to resist it?

Also, testing options do exist outside of AV. If someone wanted to seriously test Meteor/Comet resist options, they can fight Promathia in the final CoP battle located in the Empyreal Paradox. (Promathia uses both Comet and Meteor). However, if Meteor is the main concern, King Behemoth may be a great alternative testing ground. You wouldn't even need to have claim on it to test this.

- Have you tested a full Dark build on King Behemoth that did NOT include using a Flawless Ribbon? By not using a Flawless Ribbon, and not using Fealty, then letting Meteor hit you with just pure +Dark build - this may prove if Meteor is Dark Elemental based or actually Enfeebling Magic.

- Then, you could test wearing only a Flawless Ribbon and no other +Dark build to see if you resist Meteor relying on the Enfeebling magic resistance it provides. Testing this may require multiple rounds of Meteor landing on you, as the Flawless Ribbon is presumably not 100% resist.

Last, if you are not already using a Flawless Ribbon, it may be a great item to test for surviving AV's Meteor. Any testing results or information people may have will be appreciated.

[Virtuous Saint]

VS, in your Dark Elemental build, are you using a Flawless Ribbon as your head piece?
(Dark/Light +30 and Increases resistance to all status ailments)

The reason I ask is this:

- If you are using a Flawless Ribbon, it's still possible that Comet/Meteor are "not" elemental magic based, and that you are only resisting Meteor with the Flawless Ribbon's resist to enfeebling magic trait; like using the PLD job ability "Fealty".

- Screenshots show that Fealty reduces Meteor damage - leading us to believe that Meteor is Enfeebling magic and not Elemental Magic. If Meteor was Elemental Magic, it might make more sense that Rampart would be used to resist it?

Also, testing options do exist outside of AV. If someone wanted to seriously test Meteor/Comet resist options, they can fight Promathia in the final CoP battle located in the Empyreal Paradox. (Promathia uses both Comet and Meteor). However, if Meteor is the main concern, King Behemoth may be a great alternative testing ground. You wouldn't even need to have claim on it to test this.

- Have you tested a full Dark build on King Behemoth that did NOT include using a Flawless Ribbon? By not using a Flawless Ribbon, and not using Fealty, then letting Meteor hit you with just pure +Dark build - this may prove if Meteor is Dark Elemental based or actually Enfeebling Magic.

- Then, you could test wearing only a Flawless Ribbon and no other +Dark build to see if you resist Meteor relying on the Enfeebling magic resistance it provides. Testing this may require multiple rounds of Meteor landing on you, as the Flawless Ribbon is presumably not 100% resist.

Last, if you are not already using a Flawless Ribbon, it may be a great item to test for surviving AV's Meteor. Any testing results or information people may have will be appreciated.

Yes I use flawless ribbon and yes I have thought about the potential that it is resisting like fealty, but it is extremely unlikely because flawless ribbon resisting ailments is not high % chance at all, and I resisted almost every meteor by at least 1/2 using the set I had. The most likely case is that Meteor is dark magic like others suggested, and that is why fealty resists it. However if we fight AV again, or I am on during a KB I'll try just flawless. We don't really have enough people to try AV all the time anymore sadly, or at all really.

[Virtuous Saint]

Interestingly enough, I fought an AV once that didn't Meteor during Manafont. We were in sea messing around with UFOs and some LS was taking a painfully long time to down JoL. They had alot of trouble and finally got it down and we played with their AV once they did. It used manafont either as the first or 2nd 2 hour and did 4x Comet in that time. I found it rather odd it didn't do Meteor and I think it's possible it might've been locked. Unfortunately, we only had a few people and were messing around as you can see. This was ~5 months ago so my memory is a little hazy

We have experienced non-meteor manafonts before, and I can honestly say it doesn't mean anything, but it is extremely rare. When it uses manafont there is just a % chance it chooses Comet or Meteor, one might be higher than the other, but there is a chance of just seeing Comet, or just seeing Meteor.

[Virtuous Saint]

hmmm, I just checked SE video again and the rdm flee while at the same time someone matched call wyvran so meh, but I still wouldn't rule out the idea wynavs can be linked to meteor somehow ( its not like there are a pool of ideas to test). if anything should nuke them on the element of the day, or the element that overrides it, i.e wind to earth since they will be casting stonaga III if its earth day.

and as for leaving some 2hrs up, its just the fact his downtime is approx 1min between each 2hr so in a sense you might get 35-40% of time past 59% meteor free. Doesn't rule out a possible wipe from 2 meteor happening during that 1min though.

in any case, I don't think thats what SE did since 1 meteor past 59% would have wiped them and they werent using ramp.

##@$#@$#@ need to think more :S

Ya I know the reasons behind leaving 2hrs up, and we thought extensively about that, but the fact is 1 Meteor can kill every healer if you are not at the ramp. Secondly even if you leave 2 combinations of 2hrs up which make it unable to cast, they are not easily handled. For example 1 combination would be MS+HF, PLD needs to use Sentinel, Reprisal ect, then another PLD needs to Cover and do the same about midway through because HF and MS are 45sec.

[The Stig]

VS, if you don't feel like waiting for KB HNM or cannot find someone to go into final CoP fight, the last alternative is the Kaiser Behemoth in Limbus. Nice big lag free area in a controlled environment too, if your shell does Limbus. No need to wait for anything but to gather a small group and go up there.

[Virtuous Saint]

VS, if you don't feel like waiting for KB HNM or cannot find someone to go into final CoP fight, the last alternative is the Kaiser Behemoth in Limbus. Nice big lag free area in a controlled environment too, if your shell does Limbus. No need to wait for anything but to gather a small group and go up there.

Or I could solo it, but really I don't feel like playing anymore except to fight AV.