Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Virtuous Saint]

Regarding the ability to land spells on AV, has it also been tried with a RDM's death blossom? (Yeah I know, lol melee rdm and all that jazz, I'm just interested if someone tried it and what the results are due to the characteristics of Death Blossom).

Ps: Sorry if this has already been posted earlier in the thread, I didn't see it then D:

Death Blossom would not land on AV, no I don't mean the WS, I mean the -magic evasion effect would not land. I tried Vidohunir on it before which was unsuccessful in landing, that will not land.

[Virtuous Saint]

Actually, so little is known about mb enfeebles it could land them on other hnm/ gods that are immune for all we know. MB enfeeble was always something that was just funny when it happened and we never thought too much about it. Could also test the accuracy aspect of it. If anyone is doing a suzaku anytime soon, try doing a few mb silences and see how that works out. Or it could just be an AV trick like you said. Either way, it's worth looking into.

If someone tests this I would pat them on the back, the exact MACC attained by MB, and all tiers etc.

[pchan]

You tested this lol?

Yes, i can't attest it's -10 but with 95% probability its 5-15 and the same go for enspells.

[Chun Liroy]

I know it might be a silly question, but has anyone tried tomahawk... that could very well explain why it happened during a zerg but nowhere else since people don't normally bring wars as DD to AV.

[Ermac]

This is what i was referancing when i say that its been slowed. If it is jackyl's LS perhaps there is a video of it somewhere. Or even a screen shot. I assume this to be correct. I dont have a vid or screen shot to share to prove it though. At any rate, Slow has landed after the patch that decreased AV's HP but before the patch that killed KCDRK zerg.

There was another mention of this in this thread as well. Which lead me to believe it.

Obviously, we didnt bother completely nerfing regen or locking AV's two hours during the breif time that KC DRK strat was viable. While i recognize that locking AV's regen and two hours are very important to AV... I do not see a how we can make a leap to think that it will somehow allow us to withstand meteor.

I really wish i could find a vid of the fight he was talking about.

What are you exactly looking for, I have plenty of our old videos still. Just looking for a MB slow?

[arshesney]

I'm sure this has been tested but I can't find the answer: do Tomahawk have any effect on AV or its defense just silly?

[Ermac]

Side question to the person using Garuda's Wind Blade during the video steam, what kind of merits do u have for your Avatars/Gear etc. Your damage was very nice Just curious. Hate free and TP free damage would be nice for future reference.

Thanks in advanced.

[Funkworkz]

the only debuff i have seen land reliably is threnody, its about 90% success rate with proper gear

[Dawin]

VS: For 60%-40%, have you tried damaging it only during Hundred Fists and Mighty Strikes?

If during the rest of that phase, you keep only 2-3 WHM's and 2 PLD's within range, and the occasional Brd, Cor, or outside healer running in for a second, you'll really minimize your Meteor exposure. If you want to utilize some of Kaeko's idea, you can just have 1 PLD use Fealty + Sentinel at all non 2 hour times. Having just 5 corsair mules would give you 10 minutes of this via Wild Card. Every Meteor would then kill 1 PLD, 2 WHM's and maybe 1-2 other support jobs only. In theory some of these Wild Cards will reset 2 hours, so every WHM that dies could HP to Tavnazia, and job change to Corsair to give you another 2 minutes. You can also be a bit risky and try to extend your Fealty's as much as possible by not using them during 2 hours. Either way, you gotta have a little luck to win this, right? If you are able to use this strat, it seems like you could get a good 20 minutes without worrying about Meteor causing a full wipe.

From watching the Video, he used Meteor about 3 times in ~14 minutes. If this is the case, replacing your dead WHMs with live ones seems feasible. 2 in a short period of time could F you over, but it wouldn't necessarily wipe you.

Damage would be slightly lower, but not by too much. The way BLM's work is they have to rest MP in between unloading MP anyway, so just have them unload during 2 hours where AV can't meteor, then GTFO and rest. As an above poster mentioned, you can probably get a good 6% or so off his HP by throwing in a KC dark or two before he builds resistance to SE.

You could also open every 2 hour he does with an SC, threnody, and then just nuke. Alacrity could help get in more nukes during the short window.

Honestly, you could even have 1-2 BLM's on him when he's not in 2 hour mode as they're probably pretty expendable. Just make sure they are on the opposite side of the main alliance so that if they pull hate, they pull it away from everyone else.

I can definitely see how keeping hate doing this could be a problem, especially if you are rotating PLD's a bit (assuming the non Faeltied one generally dies).

I'm also very interested in whether or not Tomahawk helps.

I hate to go back to the stupid useless tips from SE, but they always mentioned our fight speed was wrong. Perhaps his offense is strongest during 60%-40% and should be zerged during that phase only? I know it's overly optimistic to assume the Meteor problem will go away, but at least you'll get further in your testing by getting past 40%.

[Virtuous Saint]

VS: For 60%-40%, have you tried damaging it only during Hundred Fists and Mighty Strikes?

If during the rest of that phase, you keep only 2-3 WHM's and 2 PLD's within range, and the occasional Brd, Cor, or outside healer running in for a second, you'll really minimize your Meteor exposure. If you want to utilize some of Kaeko's idea, you can just have 1 PLD use Fealty + Sentinel at all non 2 hour times. Having just 5 corsair mules would give you 10 minutes of this via Wild Card. Every Meteor would then kill 1 PLD, 2 WHM's and maybe 1-2 other support jobs only. In theory some of these Wild Cards will reset 2 hours, so every WHM that dies could HP to Tavnazia, and job change to Corsair to give you another 2 minutes. You can also be a bit risky and try to extend your Fealty's as much as possible by not using them during 2 hours. Either way, you gotta have a little luck to win this, right? If you are able to use this strat, it seems like you could get a good 20 minutes without worrying about Meteor causing a full wipe.

From watching the Video, he used Meteor about 3 times in ~14 minutes. If this is the case, replacing your dead WHMs with live ones seems feasible. 2 in a short period of time could F you over, but it wouldn't necessarily wipe you.

Damage would be slightly lower, but not by too much. The way BLM's work is they have to rest MP in between unloading MP anyway, so just have them unload during 2 hours where AV can't meteor, then GTFO and rest. As an above poster mentioned, you can probably get a good 6% or so off his HP by throwing in a KC dark or two before he builds resistance to SE.

You could also open every 2 hour he does with an SC, threnody, and then just nuke. Alacrity could help get in more nukes during the short window.

Honestly, you could even have 1-2 BLM's on him when he's not in 2 hour mode as they're probably pretty expendable. Just make sure they are on the opposite side of the main alliance so that if they pull hate, they pull it away from everyone else.

I can definitely see how keeping hate doing this could be a problem, especially if you are rotating PLD's a bit (assuming the non Faeltied one generally dies).

I'm also very interested in whether or not Tomahawk helps.

I hate to go back to the stupid useless tips from SE, but they always mentioned our fight speed was wrong. Perhaps his offense is strongest during 60%-40% and should be zerged during that phase only? I know it's overly optimistic to assume the Meteor problem will go away, but at least you'll get further in your testing by getting past 40%.

Ya we had a strat before we learned fully what happens during bracelets and that is, if it has 2hrs still that do not form a combination it will not 2hr once it pulls out the bracelets. If it does not at least have 2 2hrs of a combination it will not 2hr, but if it does have 2, it will 2hr both of those simultaneously. If it does not have at least 2 combinations of 2 2hrs at least, it will not continue to 2hr past the one combination (i.e it has 4 2hrs which form 2 different cominations, it will rotate between these 2 combinations, but this is just a guess as we have never allowed it to have 4 2hrs going into bracelets mode). This is all hard to explain to people who have no idea what happens really. Basically the fact is, leaving 2hr combinations available once it gets to bracelets mode just really isn't going to help you, because you have to leave at least 4 2hrs up and they have to be 2hrs where it cannot cast during which probably isn't even possible to get 2 combinations of that.

[Dawin]

In your video you had it rotating between only Mighty Strikes and Hundred Fists. That seems pretty ideal to me since it can't meteor during those. What am I missing?

[stewie]

In your video you had it rotating between only Mighty Strikes and Hundred Fists. That seems pretty ideal to me since it can't meteor during those. What am I missing?

Once bracelets go on it 2hrs in pairs, if it doesn't have another pair to rotate it won't 2hr at all after the first pair.

[Hapernack]

i dont know that time ever is going to matter if we cant figure out how to lock comet.

Hold on did I miss something? Why aren't we concerned with Meteor anymore?

[Chun Liroy]

So I assume the tomahawk idea is dumb, or just noone knows?

[Suiram]

Both? No one knows if the decreased damage is caused by an increase in the term that applies a flat damage reduction (in which case it would help) or if it's an increase in the relevant stats/buffs (in which case it wouldn't). But even if it does help it wouldn't be a game-changer since the damage increase is just 1/4 of the damage reduction. So even if it is a reduction of the first type, a 25% reduction becomes a 19% reduction, a 50% reduction becomes a 38% reduction, etc. It's something, for sure, but not to exaggerate its effect.

Edit: Oh, I guess people were asking about Tomahawk for allowing you to land enfeebles on otherwise immune target? I guess it's not impossible but if so that's not anything that's ever been observed in the past for Tomahawk so far as I'm aware.

[Thorny]

Unless my numbers are drastically wrong, an elvaan or galka RDM tank can survive 10-target meteor reliably(assuming they don't get hit immediately after before ni goes off). Why not try a setup like:

RDM/NIN x4 - BRD/WHMx2(up at AV, march + balladx2 + hymnus as fulltime songs.. back out to 20' after each round of songs so the only thing killing them is meteor)

BRD/WHM x1 + mule x3(standing 20' away to stay in meteor aoe and avoid the rest, repeatedly hymnus as it won't meteor in the time it takes to reraise and recast hymnus)

From what I've seen of AV's melee and tp moves, with 2hrs locked it shouldn't be particularly hard for 4 RDM tanks to keep each other alive, allowing you to focus the rest of your resources on damage, and obviously BLMs should stay out of meteor aoe unless nuking(I realize this is difficult and there will be a lot of timing deaths as nuking range is significantly smaller than meteor range).

[Dawin]

Ok i see it now. I just assumed the MS -> HF -> MS pattern kept going the whole fight, but now I see it changed, first to include invincible, then just stopped all together.

[HadesChubbs]

Tomahawk allows all damage to JoT, which is where I believe they got the idea tomahawk allows you to enfeeble AV, for those who were asking.

[donnie]

so in a summary:

new theories:

1- tomahawk used to be able to land ES enfeeble magic.
2- trying ES enfeeble magic after MB.
3- locking all 15 2hrs to lock meteor.
4- SE didn't think it through once they reduced fight time to 2hr, and there is no way to weaken/stop meteor and we should give up.


debunked:

1- ES enfeeble didnt land after bracelet mode.
2- you do not lock AV job traits along with his 2hr.

[Virtuous Saint]

Well, The only fight speed noticeable in the SE video is that EVERY single character has a 2 handed weapon including tanks, DD, backline job, everything.

SE left up Mighty Strikes and Hundred fists also and since he cannot cast meteor during those fazes and they form a combination I can see there pattern.

The 2 hours SE did NOT lock are.

-Mighty Strikes
-Hundred Fists
-Familiar
-Mijin Gakure
-Eagle Eye shot
-Perfect Dodge.


I am not sure which combinations are used in braclets mode so Vir.Saint would have to confirm which is which.

But SE chose not to lock 3 original jobs and 3 advanced jobs.

Does any of these fall into a combination besides Mighty strikes and hundred Fists?
Its it possible that after 39% he does any 2 hours that aren't locked in any order again without a combination.

-Why wasn't mijin locked, I have no idea, maybe they wanna have a dead ninja leech a 2 hour.
-EES probably isnt locked cause it is absorbed by 1 shadow and wasn't considered a threat.
-Perfect dodge is just annoying at best but won't wipe them.

-Just leaves MS and HF which was possibly not locked for a reason.

I can't possibly see a reason why they would use earth staff over aegis unless

-The fight speed is crucial to the fight meaning no 1 handed weapons.
-They locked all magic which would leave the physical dmg only remaining which would make the terra staff make sense.
- They got capped parry and parry merits up the ass, this was before reprisal and possibly shield mastery.
-They wanted to prove that AV can be beaten without the aegis shield.

Would need AV to drop to 39% to at least see if his meteor gets weakened again. His defense gets higher but perhaps their trick attacks ignore defense and the drgs angon is deployed and emphasied at that certain 59%-39% percentage.

I do not know what they mean by fight speed. They use 2 handed weapons but they all have haste on and march songs.

Examine the 6 specials they didn't lock and try to form a reason on why they chose not to lock them and why they are using all 2 handed weapons.
they said EVERYTHING you need to know is in the video so

-Skillchains aren't in the video, and either are enfeebles so its safe to say Skillchains didn't contribute to anything like elegy landing.

-All of their damage is coming from nukes and trick attacked weaponskills. You just might have to tough it out on his defense.

-Enfeebles didn't land at all in the video so they probably don't land on AV at all, the slow landing was probably a glitch and got patched along with souleater.

-Their gear doesn't play a role in AV's A.I or else they would show some /checked characters. They all have JSE or AF/AF2 so that the viewer can see what jobs they were to help with the hints. Some had homam/errant.

-Tomahawk doesn't do shit to enfeeble AV otherwise they would have used a warrior in the hint video.

-TP might not have anything to do with AV's Meteor otherwise they would use chi-blast penace and possibly subtle blow gear.

-They didn't use Galka tanks and I believe the Tanks were all hume, dont remember if they even used an elvaan. There has to be a way to survive meteor other then what race you picked.

I am going to assume Meteor is special because it is all 8 elements, so I will use gear resist from all 8 elements and add them up until it equals over 500+ and get smacked by AV which I will be playing with in about 1 hour and see if I can resist that way. SE didn't even gear swap, they were gimp as fuck, idk how they survive meteor.

I can't comprehend half the shit you typed here, but Meteor has never been shown to have any element associated with it except for Dark thus far. The 'multiple elements' and 'all elements' were just theories as to possibilities of how Meteor works, the only hard evidence is that it is Dark based.