Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Virtuous Saint]

Instead of posting some stupid idea of how to lock meteor lets look at a new approach on how to live through meteor. This upcoming idea DOSE require the use of lvl 1 mules zombie to soak up dmg. i am looking to do this w/ ~30 people +~6 alts. read the whole thing b4 you start to take it apart.

2hrs to lock: All but Astral Flow and Mighty Strikes
Kill Wyrns but 1 and have a lvl 1 mule Hymnus zombie it far far away from AV

Main PT:
Tank PT: RDM/WHM, PLD/NIN X2, RDM/NIN X3 (RDM/NIN can be plds. i don't give a fuck)
Melee PT: DD x4, BRD X2
BLM PT: Your personal likes. i don't give a fuck. all should be /nin

Outside:
Healers PT: WHM X5 BRD/COR (Ballad + WHM roll)
Meteor Suck up: BRD, lvl 1 mule X5 (god help the BRD)
Wyrn distraction: BRD lvl 1 mule

Fight progression:
Fight it at the RAMP TO PALACE!!! <-(KEY POINT)

Lock 2hrs like normal. You must lock Mijin now and not just wyrns.

Fight it down to 60% like normal. RDMs build hate at this phase but DO NOT tank. Just get close hate wise to the PLDS.

At 60% you STOP ALL DMG.

AV now becomes a solo tank only mob. all co-tanks go to the top of the ramp and chill w/ the mages. All 5 WHMs will look after a single tank.

Start DMG again w/ Melees running in when Mighty Strikes is active running out when it wears.

Co-tanks still generate hate but not more the the main.

Meteor! Fuck your tank is presumably dead. Well guess what. AV is gonna draw some one in. Guess who your Tank Replacement is? Yep, who ever got drawn in.

When you see AV do AF Buff your Melee's you know Mighty Strikes is on the way.

Key points to this strategy:
Meteor is not game over. It is new tank time.
It would take consecutive meteors to wipe you and all would have to be in rapid succession.
Locking HF will make it so a PLD can tank AV w/o a co-tank and AF allows it to use Mighty Strikes which would lock Meteor for 45 seconds.
This is probably not a winning strategy. But, it would probably allow people to get AV to new lows in HP and find out if it sucks more later.

God dammit lol, AV will not continue to rotate 2hrs after 59%, and it will not do MS+AF combo, and even if it did, it would do it only once, then not 2hr again. You can't possibly tank AV with 1 tank btw, he would get stomped to the ground by a single AerogaIV>atk round, even if you were to have 10 absorbers in range.

[donnie]

no one said its impossible to kill him with ramp, but you try it for your self to understand what I mean. Yet if there is a way to kill AV now, it will be ONLY using ramp limiting the damage to tanks and absorb PT.

But regardless, AV video showed that they killed in spawn point and they CANNOT have survived meteor so we need to figure the way to "avoid" it.

I am pretty sure 1 LS will kill AV using ramp very soon if not ours next Saturday, but I can assure you that SE will patch AV the next day so that you can't move him from spawn point lol.

[Virtuous Saint]

Tanks survive bracelet meteor fine, the problem comes from people surrounding tanks.

No they don't lol, as I have said a million times, even with 10+ targets hit, and tanks with the best gear and Magus's Roll, they will still each take 1000+ damage, which will be followed by a possible WS, but more likely a single attack round dealing 500-600 damage to the best geared PLD in the game.

[TummieGaruda]

Tanks survive bracelet meteor fine, the problem comes from people surrounding tanks.

Anyone know the exact range on Meteor? Isn't it a rather large radius? Also, meteor doesn't seem to follow multiple target damage reduction that -agas do, or it if does, the damage reduction is extremely minimal.

[Virtuous Saint]

Even if that were possible, the colibri would have to survive it in order to mimic the spell back.

How fast is the cast time on Meteor btw? I remember reading about one second or so. The fact that it is a special element means it really doesn't have any type of element associated to it and from the various attempts that I have seen, it doesn't have multiple damage reduction that -aga's have. It just seems to be multi-target damage, and it seems to be unavoidable at the 79% state so I think that you have to re-lock it or possibly some type of way to keep his AI from using it.

Watch the videos I posted and your perception of Meteor will become much more clear. Meteor works like all other -ga (maybe not exactly 10 person cap, I am not 100% on that) in that the more people, the less damage taken. Meteor damage hits you while you are reading it in the chat log, if that gives you an idea of how fast it is. I have posted before that dark elemental resistance build can resist Meteor, but if everyone insists on continuing to call it special that's np.

Edit: adding the fact that I have seen a SS of someone taking 5900 damage roughly, from a Meteor, this lets you know it works like -gas lol.

[donnie]

Anyone know the exact range on Meteor? Isn't it a rather large radius?

30'

also VS please do not forget to try MB ES silence after locking all 15 2hrs today if your doing AV. I am camping JoL spawn point with mule waiting for random LS to spawn JoL so that I can do some testing on him -..-

[Virtuous Saint]

Anyone know the exact range on Meteor? Isn't it a rather large radius?

Read OP lol. Every single person who is interested in AV should read the OP to this thread before they make any post.

[Max™]

Yeah, I've been more than responsible for some stupid ideas batted around, I still haven't had my pet idea which I crusade tested as thoroughly as I'd like (though it is dismissed prematurely without all the proper variables controlled which makes me seethe quietly, but I digress)... but god damn guys.

LISTEN TO THE GUY WHO HAS ACTUALLY FOUGHT THIS DAMN THING ENOUGH TO HAVE LEVELED A NEW JOB WITH THE BUFFER HE'S LOST ALONE.

This is why these threads get locked, any hint of good useful discussion gets overwhelmed by "OMG MAYBE YOU CAN JUST SILENCE METEOR OR JERK OFF ON THE EBON PANELS!" shit.

[Virtuous Saint]

30'

It's actually 25 AoE off target it is casted on. You can be in range to nuke, and yet out of range to be hit by Meteor if you are a BLM (this doesn't mean shit tho, AV moves constantly due to people pulling hate).

[Hogie]

Hey lilfoo, thats actually not a bad idea at all. The main problem i see with it is that solo tanking AV with or without 2h's is going to be extremely hard if not impossible for more then 3-5min. Without slow or elegy, its super hard for anyone to solo tank a mob that hits as hard as AV does (Not to mention Aeroga4 and Aeroral Wind)

I think this idea may work better with a couple more tanks and using a 2 tank rotation. Only thing that bothers me about it is why can SE kill it at the spawn location and we have to revert to terrain glitchs to avoid Meteor?

Edit: I forgot about the 59% 2h rotation

[pchan]

No they don't lol, as I have said a million times, even with 10+ targets hit, and tanks with the best gear and Magus's Roll, they will still each take 1000+ damage, which will be followed by a possible WS, but more likely a single attack round dealing 500-600 damage to the best geared PLD in the game.

RDM tanks should take much less, and I assume that if you want to take the minimal possible damage during bracelts mode you do not wear aegis as only magic defense gear. It doesn't matter anyway, as it was established on page I that you can't kill AV without locking meteor unless you get incredibly lucky or have 70 persons that only have 1% chance of sucking.

[TummieGaruda]

Read OP lol. Every single person who is interested in AV should read the OP to this thread before they make any post.

Yes I read the OP and missed the 25' radius my apologies.

As far as it being regarded as special, the argument comes from the fact that in the .DAT's the element is listed as "Special". However, I remember when I was messing with pXI and modded the .DAT's to make Meteor available to level 75 BLM, the icon in my spell list was the same element as dark based spells, so yes you are right about it being dark based...I can provide screenshots later if needed be for others.

What makes it interesting is that the BLU spell "Reactor Cool" is listed as Special (Along with other spells) however it clearly is an Ice based element spell similar to Ice Spikes. So I can see how people (Including myself) would talk about it being special for the element type. Not exactly sure why SE set it up this way though.

[Virtuous Saint]

RDMs can't effectively tank AV, end of story. You absolutely have to have multiple PLDs with fealty in order to survive Manafont to lock it. RDM tanks cannot reattain hate before people die after SV charms them. HF will kill them even with -50% obviously, you have to have at least 1 PLD for that. RDM has to rely on massive gear changes to reduce damage heavily unlike PLD, so when it is in bracelets mode and it casts a Meteor for 800-1000 damage to all of the RDMs instantly, the RDM must switch to their -PDT set, which btw they won't be able to react in time to do, and even if they did they would still take 350-400 damage from the next attack, if they managed to get -50%PDT on. PLD/NIN is simply the way to go on AV, if you have PLD/NINs with Aegis, do not tank AV with RDMs.

[Virtuous Saint]

Yes I read the OP and missed the 25' radius my apologies.

As far as it being regarded as special, the argument comes from the fact that in the .DAT's the element is listed as "Special". However, I remember when I was messing with pXI and modded the .DAT's to make Meteor available to level 75 BLM, the icon in my spell list was the same element as dark based spells, so yes you are right about it being dark based...I can provide screenshots later if needed be for others.

What makes it interesting is that the BLU spell "Reactor Cool" is listed as Special (Along with other spells) however it clearly is an Ice based element spell similar to Ice Spikes. So I can see how people (Including myself) would talk about it being special for the element type. Not exactly sure why SE set it up this way though.

No, I understand the confusion with Meteor, and obviously I'm not saying it is just dark based, but I am 100% sure that dark elemental build can resist Meteor from both KB and AV, as I tested it personally. I have no more info about Meteor's element than it is resisted by dark resistance gear, it could be multiple.. light+dark, idk, I haven't tested other elemental builds against it.

[pchan]

RDMs can't effectively tank AV, end of story. You absolutely have to have multiple PLDs with fealty in order to survive Manafont to lock it. RDM tanks cannot reattain hate before people die after SV charms them. HF will kill them even with -50% obviously, you have to have at least 1 PLD for that. RDM has to rely on massive gear changes to reduce damage heavily unlike PLD, so when it is in bracelets mode and it casts a Meteor for 800-1000 damage to all of the RDMs instantly, the RDM must switch to their -PDT set, which btw they won't be able to react in time to do, and even if they did they would still take 350-400 damage from the next attack, if they managed to get -50%PDT on. PLD/NIN is simply the way to go on AV, if you have PLD/NINs with Aegis, do not tank AV with RDMs.

I think we should debate what's the best tank for AV once the NM dies. Without meteor, it's not the same mob as what you fight.

[Mojo]

A PLD wearing full Iron Ram, Lamia Mantle +1, Lamian Kaman +1 supported by a WHM who has full barspell merits is going to end up with MDB+33. A RDM in the same scenario is going to have MDB+39. Looking at only MDB, that equates to the PLD taking 75.2% of normal Meteor damage versus 71.9% for RDM. It's a small difference that would be made smaller by other MDB buffs (Magus' Roll etc.) and is not worth giving up the increased HP and physical endurance of a PLD.

Edit: Thought I should mention that this meant the RDM would be wearing Dalmatica, Duelist's Gloves, and Ataractic Solea.

Edit2: In addition to Lamia Mantle +1 and Lamian Kaman +1. Also assuming that the RDM has Defending Ring, without it they would need to wear other stuff to cap their mdt-% and have less MDB.

[Celebrindor]

1. slap kebbie into your build for staff choice on RDM- MDB +5.

2. I'd wager that the lack of JA's to reduce damage the way fealty does you're still not gonna be able to take the punishment those with time in the fight (not me, I'm just postulating here) attest to.

3. The biggest issue I see would be getting hate back- RDM/NIN simply can't spike hate the way PLD/NIN can.

[Therin]

I'm not even sure why this is a discussion. Even with an extra 10 MDB or so you're still going to have maybe 1300 HP in your Magic Defense gear and therefore Meteor will one-shot you anyway. <_<

1. slap kebbie into your build for staff choice on RDM- MDB +5.

No way. You have to use Kirin's Pole or Alkalurops. That's basically -10% Magic Damage Taken from the INT and it doesn't apply to your MDT cap. Also, Asuran Fists is better than Gekko.

[Hogie]

I'm not even sure why this is a discussion. Even with an extra 10 MDB or so you're still going to have maybe 1300 HP in your Magic Defense gear and therefore Meteor will one-shot you anyway. <_<



No way. You have to use Kirin's Pole or Alkalurops. That's basically -10% Magic Damage Taken from the INT and it doesn't apply to your MDT cap. Also, Asuran Fists is better than Gekko.

Good luck equiping Kirin's Pole on RDM

[Therin]

Merely a technicality, my point still stands.