Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[willriker]

That is very interesting to hear about rampart being multiplied by a ratio to how many people are in range of it. If rampart really is that strong, it might be a neat way to aproach this problem. It might also get people to rethink iron will merits as well. Seeing that iron will is aoe with the rampart all the tanks would have the 95% - spell interupt, definately a bonus on something the order of AV.

Though i would like to add that you mentioned it in addition to stoneskin from scholar. Ramparts effect does not stack with any sort of stoneskin. If you have stoneskin up... you gain no effect from rampart. If you had rampart up and gain stoneskin... you have no effect from rampart either.

If rampart is the way people are thinging of going, it would suck to have a whm's cure pop stoneskin on you. Yeah that is completely avoidable, but should be kept in mind so that it is avoided.

[HiPotion]

ummm im thinking Meter is position related, like when players everywhere he goes like "wtf they are everywhere, METOER THEM", so im thinking all of you should stand in front of him so he doesnt get distracted and use metoer

metoer seems to be designed like that to be a killer and cannot be weakened but can be avoided, just like spike flail it is supposed to be a killer so that when you screw up you get screwed (also SF is position related but if u steal hate from behind, but still SE can come up with new ideas)

or maybe you should not be very far from him ?, check SE video when bracelet mode they all in front of him and only two behind him (blm idle and the 2nd came @ last 1hp cuz he want his name in chat log)

/theory>

[Mojo]

I haven't played the game for a while but I was under the impression that after this update Stoneskin and Rampart stacked. Maybe someone can confirm whether that's true or not. Also, the formula I provided wasn't conclusively tested all the way up to 6 party members being hit, so it could cap at some value and it would certainly be helpful to have people test this.

I think the ideal tank PT set up would be 4x PLD 1x WHM and the other slot would be open. The WHMs main duty would be to rotate other jobs in to give the PLDs good buffs. If Rampart growth does indeed continue all the way up to n=6, then a Rampart rotation could be possible to actually keep people alive (with or without Stoneskin.) You would need 10 Ramparts on full recast merits to ensure that every possible spell was covered (assuming AV casts every 25 seconds on average.) With 4 PLD, that means you would need 1 level 50+ COR every 100 seconds (or 12 COR total.) That's impractical. However, if you made wise use of Wild Card then 4 COR could give you 33 minutes 20 seconds of coverage to take it from 59% > 0% and 5 COR could give you 50 minutes to go from 59% to 0%.

[Kaylia]

ummm im thinking Meter is position related, like when players everywhere he goes like "wtf they are everywhere, METOER THEM", so im thinking all of you should stand in front of him so he doesnt get distracted and use metoer

metoer seems to be designed like that to be a killer and cannot be weakened but can be avoided, just like spike flail it is supposed to be a killer so that when you screw up you get screwed (also SF is position related but if u steal hate from behind, but still SE can come up with new ideas)

or maybe you should not be very far from him ?, check SE video when bracelet mode they all in front of him and only two behind him (blm idle and the 2nd came @ last 1hp cuz he want his name in chat log)

/theory>

SE video doesnt deal with meteor, but people are spread around normally. People also move in and out a few times (aside the cameraman black mage?).

Not having anyone move before it cast (move right after the spell) might be worth trying, since it's relatively easy to do, but the video didn't indicate anything like this.


[edit]
I know it was discussed over a few threads, but I can't find the answer. Was it debunked that dealing large amount of damage (or very little) could trigger meteor. Maybe you're capped to 5k/minute, or you need to deal above 1k/minute. Otherwise meteor is added to the spell selection.

[HiPotion]

SE said something about being skilled and that the only thing i could think of atm..

[Virtuous Saint]

I know.
And I also thought that AV's meteor could be direction related as well.
That can explain why they have rdm tanks and plds tanks respectly and 2 very strong DD's with /thf sub for hate control and damage.... but /thf sub because they know aerogo 4 can't kill them 1 shot if absorbed by ppl and because they know meteor won't go off at all?

The people behind AV has absolutely no hate on him at all and are cameraman.
Everyone else is to the side similar how to ppl go to side when fighting tiamat.
Just like tinnin and tiamat... if you spam TA WS on your tanks like crazy. Blms won't ever move the mob as they rarely pull hate even though they do 90% of the damage on the mob. (comparing it to AV because most all of his dmg comes from nukes, TA WS and skillchains, which is very similar to tinnin) Tiamat wasn't a perfect example because your nukes don't do much to him.

Play with AV at 79% before bracelets mode and at least see if meteor is position related at all in the slightest bit.
Kaiser PLDs with VIT build and MDB build RDM tanks for aeroga 4 only is really starting to make sense on the SE video if that is true about meteor. As well as /thf DDs.

I am well aware that /thf DD's can possibly get destroyed by Aeroga IV in bracelets mode and possibly some of the absorbers.

You have to be fucking kidding me lol. I love this statement "Tiamat wasn't a perfect example because your nukes don't do much to him.", if this is supposed to be a comparison to AV................ Oh god.

[Virtuous Saint]

SE video doesnt deal with meteor, but people are spread around normally. People also move in and out a few times (aside the cameraman black mage?).

Not having anyone move before it cast (move right after the spell) might be worth trying, since it's relatively easy to do, but the video didn't indicate anything like this.


[edit]
I know it was discussed over a few threads, but I can't find the answer. Was it debunked that dealing large amount of damage (or very little) could trigger meteor. Maybe you're capped to 5k/minute, or you need to deal above 1k/minute. Otherwise meteor is added to the spell selection.

First of all, it most definitely has nothing to do with player position. Secondly it has nothing to do with damage, we have dealt 0 damage and HUGE damage, it is simply random idk how people can't come to this conclusion watching the videos I posted, I mean come on.

[Chaz]

Because they don't watch, and even if they did they'd still be ignorant to any facts that actually matter. This thread should have a screening process, if you know your shit you can post here...if you're retarded, go hold your head under water until you feel sleepy.

I have to be honest here VS, I've read every post in this thread and there are about 85 different occasions where I /facepalmed at a question that someone asked you and you've kept your cool through 99% of it. Hats off to you.

I know it would only be marginally helpful, but some of my LS members were talking recently about trying to pinpoint exactly how many sets of JoL's Summons you need to kill to cut AV's regen as far as that side will take it. Its been shown that even without this information people are completely cutting the Regen, but if you can save a few minutes here or there...in the long run maybe its worth it. We typically kill JoL once a week so perhaps soon we will have some data to contribute to the community.

[Virtuous Saint]

I know it would only be marginally helpful, but some of my LS members were talking recently about trying to pinpoint exactly how many sets of JoL's Summons you need to kill to cut AV's regen as far as that side will take it. Its been shown that even without this information people are completely cutting the Regen, but if you can save a few minutes here or there...in the long run maybe its worth it. We typically kill JoL once a week so perhaps soon we will have some data to contribute to the community.

Ya that would be great to know, but I think it would be pretty hard to figure out because of how AV seems to still have some regen no matter what, but you could at least get an idea I think.

[BerenTebogo]

I thought it was generally accepted that @ shark only was the number? Is that an over-approximation?

[Xaetica]

Has anyone figured out the riddle regarding SE stating that mobs around/near AV affect him in a certain way? Or was that just a red herring they threw at us.

[Ramses]

Has anyone figured out the riddle regarding SE stating that mobs around/near AV affect him in a certain way? Or was that just a red herring they threw at us.

SE never said that, just like SE never said that our fight speed is wrong, just like SE never said it was originally supposed to be an 18 hour fight. All those things were said by people who don't work for SE yet has been spread like gospel ever since. Gotta love the internets.

[hypnotizd]

I thought it was generally accepted that @ shark only was the number? Is that an over-approximation?

That's what I've always heard. 3 sets of phuabos/xzomits/hpemdes at 3 min recast each before sharks only. So minimum time before sharks only is roughly 30 minutes. Leaving 1h30m for AV if you kill JoL right on the 4th shark summon.

[Virtuous Saint]

I thought it was generally accepted that @ shark only was the number? Is that an over-approximation?

It makes sense, but the fact is no one knows, it is really hard to tell because there are 2 parts to the regen neither of which we know how much is necessary to lock.

[Changz]

Someone mentioned warping back to town and changing jobs to reset abilities, then heading back to the palace. Anyone know what the turn around time is from the moment they warp to the moment they are back at the palace?

[Hogie]

Ok so after re-reading some of the old interviews, this one seems to strike me odd. I highlighted in bold what im talking about...

Originally Posted by Excerpt taken from the August 2007 interview of the FFXI Development Team at the Games Convention in Leipzig, Germany
Bercus: I really need to answer that question. After 2 years across the NA, EU and Japanese player base, no one can successfully defeat Absolute Virtue. Because the problems are the 2 hours and the magic casting… the instant use of all those immense attacks. All the tips you have given in the past were about the Regen, but this is a minor issue. That´s no problem. Is there any hint you can give today or maybe at the Fan Festival? After you fixed it we can´t beat it anymore.
Sundi: I wish we could call it fix.
Bercus: The wall trick?
Sundi: Yeah. You know all the hints that we already revealed.
Bercus: That´s only about Regen.
Sundi: Yeah.
Bercus: The Regen is no problem. After 2 years we can´t beat it.
Sundi: Speed.
Bercus: The speed? How you fight it?
Sundi: Right.

They seem to think people don't understand their hint. It sounds like there aren't any other secrets yet people are clamoring for more hints, so they are confused.

Sundi: We still need to fix the hint that the wait of the Regen will be decreased if you do something.
Bercus: During the fight against AV?

Reiterates there is a way to decrease the regen effect of AV

Sundi: During the fight. You can almost stop regening
Bercus: Regen is no problem!!!! The 2 hours are. Sealing the 2hours. One Linkshell did this. But they don´t know why, and we can´t practice more on AV, because AV is not a 100% pop. Jailer of Love is an easy fight.

(I don´t think anyone knew what I was trying to ask)

Sundi: You have to wait till the Regen is completely stopped. Regen of the HP has completely stopped.
Bercus: Then you can stop the other abilities?
Sundi: No. Only the speed of the Regen. At this time, by doing certain action during the fight.
Bercus: And then the whole monster will clam down and stop using these crazy attacks and 2hours? That´s what we need to know because that´s the problem.
Saori: There are still a few secrets.
Sundi: Yeah.
Bercus: You offered to maybe beat it at the Fan Festival by Development people. Is this still possible? Can you show people how to beat it at the Fan Festival?

(I looked at Sundi who started laughing)

Bercus: I think you brought it up right, at one Interview at the E3.
Sundi: Possible..
Bercus: No cheating when you do that. (everyone laughed)… normal equipment.
Explaining the request to show players a fight against AV
Sundi: What about not the fight, but taking a video?
Bercus: That´s ok too. (Sundi smiled) Ok, let´s not waste all our time about AV.

(I will E-Mail them a 20-30 question Interview after the VU and will get responds to all those questions more detailed asap, also about AV)

Also there was a statement made at the Premier Site Summit (or w/e that stupid shit was) from Sundi about the fact that he was certain everything was in the video and the fight is expected to be at least 10hr if you are lucky.

Yes I know everyone has seen this interview many times, we always brushed it off as Sundi is a moron and didn't understand what we were saying. What if Sundi did fully understand what we were asking, but rather did not know how to word his answer right to let us know what we need to know?

After re-reading it, Sundi seems like he is saying that only once the Regen is completely stopped will you be able to "by doing certain action during the fight" to make it calm down. Bercus keeps mentioning that regen isnt a problem, but stopping his abilities is the problem. So maybe once his Regen is completely gone that is when you will be able to make him calm down.

Yes i know it has been said a trillion times, but maybe people are not completely locking his regen? Has anyone tested to see if it regens 1% after say 5min? SE mentioned that JoL's pops had something to do with his Regen and same with nuking to the day. Yes people (I know Kaeko said it for sure) have said that JoL pops dont seem to matter and you can eliminate his regen fully by just nuking to the day, but what if even though his regen doesn't look to be anything, it is still only 1/2 locked?



I honestly give Sundi no credit at all for knowing anything about FFXI, but for some reason after re-reading this interview for the 5000th time, i am starting to see what Sundi said differently....

[Mojo]

Sigh...

[Hogie]

Sigh...

Yeah i know, i took a big sigh at myself as i was typing it.... but honestly its the only thing i can think of for meteor

SE didnt have some big elaborate absorb party with PLD's rotating Rampart and COR's resetting shit....

[Kaylia]

First of all, it most definitely has nothing to do with player position. Secondly it has nothing to do with damage, we have dealt 0 damage and HUGE damage, it is simply random idk how people can't come to this conclusion watching the videos I posted, I mean come on.

When you say it's random, you're basically saying it's impossible to prevent it. Maybe, it is, but unless I missed an interview where SE stated it can't be prevented, the possibility exist. Trying to survive meteor is one thing, but back when it was released, when we had half of the tools we have now (no rampart, no Corsair, less merit and gears, no mantra, less m.def), surviving meteor was unthinkable. Unless SE are fucking retarded, they probably had another gimmick in mind to avoid meteor.


I'm asking because it's 50 times faster than going through every video, finding meteor and looking how much damage was dealt before. If it's too bothersome to give a yes/no answer, you don't have to, I can get my answer through other mean.

When I posted the question in my last post, I had Dyn-Xarc weapon in mind and ToA Bomb in mind. Both react to damage input (and more) in a specific way. If AV was like a Bomb that doesn't grow up, there is a good chance you wouldn't notice meteor getting added/removed from the rotation, assuming you hit the trigger relatively often.

[Virtuous Saint]

When you say it's random, you're basically saying it's impossible to prevent it. Maybe, it is, but unless I missed an interview where SE stated it can't be prevented, the possibility exist. Trying to survive meteor is one thing, but back when it was released, when we had half of the tools we have now (no rampart, no Corsair, less merit and gears, no mantra, less m.def), surviving meteor was unthinkable. Unless SE are fucking retarded, they probably had another gimmick in mind to avoid meteor.


I'm asking because it's 50 times faster than going through every video, finding meteor and looking how much damage was dealt before. If it's too bothersome to give a yes/no answer, you don't have to, I can get my answer through other mean.

When I posted the question in my last post, I had Dyn-Xarc weapon in mind and ToA Bomb in mind. Both react to damage input (and more) in a specific way. If AV was like a Bomb that doesn't grow up, there is a good chance you wouldn't notice meteor getting added/removed from the rotation, assuming you hit the trigger relatively often.

No, when I say it is random I mean it is random... not so sure how you would take me saying that it is random to mean that I think it is impossible to prevent, hmm. Random as in, Meteor will be casted on you at random times throughout the fight after 79%HP, and there is nothing that doing more or less damage does to this. Surviving Meteor is unthinkable now, even with those tools, you can survive 1 yes, but a barrage of Meteors will kill you and there is nothing that would stop it unless you had a constant stream of CORs wild carding Fealty back non-stop.

In fact there was a statement in an interview saying it couldn't be prevented, but you could avoid it if you were skilled (unknown what they meant by this, but they don't know shit if they think you can avoid Meteor). I personally think there is a way to either weaken it or lock it just due to the fact that it is 100 times harder than anything else in the game. We have fought AV dealing almost no damage and it will Meteor the same amount, there is seemingly no difference between what kind of damage/how much damage is dealt.