Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Mojo]

I recall there was a post by someone stating that they locked a lot of AV's 2hrs with just Call Wyvern, but never really saw any follow up on that. If that were the case, it would perhaps make sense as to why there is such a short locking window (the attempt should follow AV's animation for a 2hr as opposed to waiting for the 2hr animation, waiting for it to pop in log, hope that the job that is supposed to be locking is not dead/doing another action, fire 2hr for that specific job). Can anyone confirm or deny this claim that was made?

I think it's best to be very cautious in regards to these claims. People also said that they had locked Manafont by killing certain Aerns because they got lucky and it didn't use Manafont for a while after they did whatever they did. It took me a while to disprove this but I did provide a very thorough examination on every Aern in Sea and it was more or less conclusive that they had absolutely no affect on anything. Either way, if it's not well documented, it should be dismissed.

[Mojo]

So was it never said, or was it said by someone who didn't work for SE? You yourself seem to be implying it WAS stated, just not by someone that worked for SE. Now you are saying it wasn't stated at all.

I think he's getting his quotes confused. Sundi was probably speaking about Regen in that interview. The stuff that wasn't said by Square Enix was the stuff about Aerns. It was either a lie posted by some fanatic or was said by one of the volunteers. Like, the people in the black shirts. I was one of those people the year before. The person who gave that response could have been someone who read BG forums and interpreted the current theory thread as fact and then when asked about it just regurgitated information.

[Narse]

I think it's best to be very cautious in regards to these claims. People also said that they had locked Manafont by killing certain Aerns because they got lucky and it didn't use Manafont for a while after they did whatever they did. It took me a while to disprove this but I did provide a very thorough examination on every Aern in Sea and it was more or less conclusive that they had absolutely no affect on anything. Either way, if it's not well documented, it should be dismissed.

The group that made the claim stated they locked 13 of 15 2hrs that way. When AV is rotating between only two 2hrs, and they happened to be the two you did not attempt to lock using this method, I think it's safe to say that you're not just getting lucky as the people who were playing with the aerns did. That group was the only group to mention this, and the post has neither had anyone confirm or deny a single thing from it. That, along with the fact that it would justify such a short 2hr window... I think it is worth investigating, honestly.

[Ramses]

So was it never said, or was it said by someone who didn't work for SE? You yourself seem to be implying it WAS stated, just not by someone that worked for SE. Now you are saying it wasn't stated at all.

No, I meant it was not stated by SE just like I said. People always say that SE said "your fight speed is wrong" SE never said that. People who don't work for SE say that all the time based on an interview where Sundi was talking about regen. There is no contradiction in anything I said, I just though it was obvious enough where I didn't have to spell it out so much.

[kobain]

VS, has any LS tried locking only the two hours that SE spams on their Video? they try to lock:

PLD
BLM
WHM
SAM
DRG
SMN (doesn’t make much sense since the pets were not out at the time) but it might have been one of the ways they changed AV to make it easier.
DRK
RDM

2 hours left:
Ranger
Ninja (can’t use without pets)
Monk
War
Thf
Familiar (can’t use without pets)

[Ramses]

While we're at it, I guess I'll spell out where the 18 hour thing is probably wrong also. Some guy at ffxiclopedia says that Sundi told him off the record in some chat over lunch that AV is an 18 hour fight. So you have to trust this guy in what was said, that Sundi wasn't joking or being cynical or sarcastic and that this guy didn't just misunderstand something. That is way too much for me to take on faith from something so unofficial.

[HBX]

Let's assume that Meteor can be locked by way of some "trick" as is true for regen and 2hrs. Let's also assume that this "trick" follows the use of basic play style and doesn't involve outside items or influence (again, similar to 2hr and regen). If that is true, then it is somewhat likely that some group at some point would have accidentally locked meteor at some point in the past without even trying.

Let's be realistic. 2hrs had to have been occasionally locked long before the secret was discovered. It was never really mentioned, however, because the group either didn't notice since we're talking about 1 out of 15 2hrs not showing up (very likely) or because they thought it was a "glitch" that couldn't be consistently reproduced. The same could easily be said for reducing regen as nuking on the element of the day isn't exactly an uncommon behavior.

My point is, rather than overindulging the SWAG method, perhaps we should pay more attention when people do happen to point out favorable behavior from AV that is out of the ordinary and attack them for every drop of useful information.

I found this on page 13:

Interestingly enough, I fought an AV once that didn't Meteor during Manafont. We were in sea messing around with UFOs and some LS was taking a painfully long time to down JoL. They had alot of trouble and finally got it down and we played with their AV once they did. It used manafont either as the first or 2nd 2 hour and did 4x Comet in that time. I found it rather odd it didn't do Meteor and I think it's possible it might've been locked. Unfortunately, we only had a few people and were messing around as you can see. This was ~5 months ago so my memory is a little hazy

Here's the log:

(He provided screenshots that I removed for brevity.)

Personally, it seems like outside of VS's MP drain strategy or sitting around waiting for SE to tell us how to do it, this is the best avenue of pursuit.

[Mojo]

You do know that AV will only use Comet about 1/16 times for every Manafont based on sheer luck?

[Mojo]

The group that made the claim stated they locked 13 of 15 2hrs that way. When AV is rotating between only two 2hrs, and they happened to be the two you did not attempt to lock using this method, I think it's safe to say that you're not just getting lucky as the people who were playing with the aerns did. That group was the only group to mention this, and the post has neither had anyone confirm or deny a single thing from it. That, along with the fact that it would justify such a short 2hr window... I think it is worth investigating, honestly.

Well, if that's the case, then it is worth investigating although I have a feeling that it will probably be a mistake on their part.

[Hogie]

Read the whole thing. At the time of the two lines you chose to single out, it is obvious they aren't talking about the same thing. Bercus even says so. Then Sundi immediately starts talking about regen again, even specifically using the phrase "speed of regen". In the context of the whole interview, it is obvious that Sundi is talking about regen, not fight speed. How could you possibly dismiss everything else being said for one line that was never followed up or clarified? It's blatantly obvious Sundi didn't understand that Bercus was talking about something else. Sundi never, at any point, wavers from his point, which is regen.

I wouldn't say Narse has taken it out of context at all really...

"Sundi: Yeah. You know all the hints that we already revealed.
Bercus: That´s only about Regen.
Sundi: Yeah.
Bercus: The Regen is no problem. After 2 years we can´t beat it.
Sundi: Speed.
Bercus: The speed? How you fight it?
Sundi: Right."

Bercus clearly says "The Regen is no problem" and then Sundi says "Speed" and then it continues where Narse quoted.

[Ramses]

I wouldn't say Narse has taken it out of context at all really...

"Sundi: Yeah. You know all the hints that we already revealed.
Bercus: That´s only about Regen.
Sundi: Yeah.
Bercus: The Regen is no problem. After 2 years we can´t beat it.
Sundi: Speed.
Bercus: The speed? How you fight it?
Sundi: Right."

Bercus clearly says "The Regen is no problem" and then Sundi says "Speed" and then it continues where Narse quoted.

Really? Sundi says "your fight speed is wrong"? Sundi is talking about REGEN. Read the whole interview, or learn to read if that is your problem. You still just chose to quote a small portion of the interview. You forgot the next line where Bercus says that Sundi doesn't seem to understand what he is asking and still talks about REGEN. Sundi is japanese, Bercus is german and they are speaking to each other in english about a mob in a video game where Sundi up until this point was only authorized to comment on the one hint that was released which was REGEN. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it must be a... cow? Seriously.

[Hanyoko]

I've been trying to think of the best way to present this and failed; so please understand the concepts will be slighly disjointed.

I've always made the that connection that the Jailers keeping AV supressed; and thus when you defeat Love AV is set free. As such looking back at what we know now; there are a few subtle hints that the jailers provide. Perhaps we are missing some others?

The biggest being that all the jailers can use their 2hr multiple times. Which if they were 'capturing' AV would be needed in some way.
With that being said, is there any other lessons we have learned from fighting the jailers that can be applied to AV? A few come to mind.

Damage types (temperance)
Retialiation casting (fortitude)
Kill many many pets (Justice / love)
Avoiding charm (Justice) **
something from hope and prudence? more from others? from ix?

**A friend claimed that you can fight justice and how you manage hate can make it less likely to use charm - At the time I wasn't paying attention as I'm always in the BLM line here

[Kaylia]

The ZNM Ob will change behavior entirely based on the use of JAs. I realize Ob was added after AV, but it seems they laid the groundwork for that type of mob behavior with AV, so perhaps we can look to certain ZNM behavior and gimmicks as possible ideas for understanding AV's spellcasting strength and behavior.

Completely forgot about this one.

Not that it change much, I was simply saying that early ToA behavior could be seen on AV, since they were developed around the same time.

ly all of this theory crafting needs to stop. It was amusing to read for a little while but it's getting to the point where it's overcoming the discussion.

Point is, there is only 1 gimmick left that make the fight impossible. I would like to say we will figure it out eventually, but it took 3 years, a video, and 1 more year before any progress was made. Like you said, without the hints, no one would have figured this one out, even if the gimmick was simple.

No one so far accidently locked meteor, so if there is anything, it's not something that involve traditional methods. It will require some nonsensical (but hopefully simple) action. Unlike before, locking meteor is going to make this fight a joke (relatively to unerfed AV), making it much easier to draw conclusion and draw correllation between your action and the lock. Before, you could lock a 2h, but never notice it since you were too busy trying to survive.

Testing "stupid theories" just got insanely easier now that 2h are locked. There is nothing left standing in your way if you eventually hit the right one, unlike before (it was almost impossible to notice a specific 2h lock before. Also, keep it mind what was debunked for 2h might still works.

Now, if you want to be helpful, try and get your linkshell to team up with some other linkshell and WAR zerg it or fight it with some sort of Rampart rotation, or really any other sort of strategy that you think may work, but please stop posting random theories about jailer weapons or whatever. That's when people stop reading the thread and stop caring.

People will stop reading the thread anyway if no one post in it. If a new attempt was done and produced valuable info, ask a moderator to update the title with "new information page 32". I agree that kind of talk isn't extremely productive, but it doesn't hurt the current situation like you're implying.

Doing what you said on many smaller servers is virtually impossible. Most dedicated players left the game, drama made certain team up impossible, and your average shell can barely fill an alliance. We all know it's possible to zerg it with an army of people, but if someone manage to kill it like this, people will stop looking for alternative, and AV will be left untouched because gathering 40-50 peoples for a kill is fucking stupid.


Anyway, how far zerg got us so far aside a nerf when it was killed? While it's probably doable, you won't find the gimmick unless you are holding it, and trying "jailer weapon" kind of bullshit. After seeing how ridiculous the time window to lock 2h is, we can expect something equally retarded for meteor.

[HBX]

You do know that AV will only use Comet about 1/16 times for every Manafont based on sheer luck?

You do know that to say something is pure luck is extremely unscientific, counterproductive, and conjecture? You do also know that the method now proven to lock 2hrs was previously "proven" false because people were lazy and too quick to make assumptions right? What if 1/16 times on average people happen to accidentaly perform actions that equate to the locking of Meteor? Is that impossible simply because you like to believe that it's a random, uncontrollable event? Even if this is a "glitch" as you would imply, certain condition still would have had to occur to cause the "glitch". The only real difference between a "glitch" and a "trick", is the conditions for a "glitch" are rediculously hard to track and/or reproduce, while a "trick" can be easily repeated and doesn't get you banned or involve a patch within 24hrs.

I'm simply suggesting that maybe we start looking under our noses since that's where everything else has been hiding....

[Suiram]

What he meant was AV casting 4 spells during manafont (assuming this is always true) with a 50% chance of Meteor or Comet (assuming this is true as well) you'd see a comet-only Manafont in 1 out of every 16 uses on average. While the first two points are somewhat conjecture (sounds right but I don't think anyone has carefully detailed the number of spells used per Font and the chance of each occurring), at that point saying it'll happen 1/16 of the time is perfectly scientific and reasonable, and when it does happen that you get one of those Comet-only manafonts you'll certainly feel lucky, as well.

[Ramses]

You do know that to say something is pure luck is extremely unscientific, counterproductive, and conjecture? You do also know that the method now proven to lock 2hrs was previously "proven" false because people were lazy and too quick to make assumptions right? What if 1/16 times on average people happen to accidentaly perform actions that equate to the locking of Meteor? Is that impossible simply because you like to believe that it's a random, uncontrollable event? Even if this is a "glitch" as you would imply, certain condition still would have had to occur to cause the "glitch". The only real difference between a "glitch" and a "trick", is the conditions for a "glitch" are rediculously hard to track and/or reproduce, while a "trick" can be easily repeated and doesn't get you banned or involve a patch within 24hrs.

I'm simply suggesting that maybe we start looking under our noses since that's where everything else has been hiding....

Nobody said it was a glitch. There are two spells AV can chose from during manafont. There is a % chance it can be either of the spells. It is a certainty that sometimes he will do the same one for the duration of manafont. There is nothing strange about it.

[Mojo]

There is nothing unscientific about what I said. The fact is that Manafont can result in 0 Meteors, it just doesn't happen very often. What was presented was a single occurrence of this. Devoting extra attention to a single occurrence that was predicted to be infrequent and that was not exceptional in any other way would be unscientific.

Going back to random theories. They are not easy to test by any means even if you can lock two hours. Again, even when an obvious hint was put right in front of our noses, it took people a year to finally test it properly. There are countless random theories in this thread already, more than will ever be tested. There is no point to suggesting them. You're not going to make some 'GREAT DISCOVERY', nobody is going to test them. It's just going to clutter everything up and make people not want to read the thread and consequently lose interest in methods that could potentially kill AV. This is exactly what happened when the videos were released and it's exactly why it took people a year to actually figure out how to lock two hours.

[cloudedge]

VS - based on your experience or intuition, do you think that locking Meteor can only be done after bracelet mode is out or can it be done before that?

If there's reasons to believe that Meteor can be locked before bracelet mode, it's a lot easier to test out different theories as AV at 100% is a lot easier to get access to than 79%.

[Therin]

Theoretically, if you could lock Meteor prior to 79% there's no way to know if you've actually locked it until 79% anyway.

[Virtuous Saint]

VS - based on your experience or intuition, do you think that locking Meteor can only be done after bracelet mode is out or can it be done before that?

If there's reasons to believe that Meteor can be locked before bracelet mode, it's a lot easier to test out different theories as AV at 100% is a lot easier to get access to than 79%.

Ya if it can be locked I'm sure you can do it at any %, just like regen and 2hrs.