Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[cloudedge]

It's suicidal (but so is any AV attempt anyway), but what if we left Manafont unlock.

Do we think Manafont Metero and below 79% Metero can be locked by the same mechanic?

[Chaz]

If you can manage to last that long it's probably worth a shot, though I hope for everyone's sake that it isn't the trick.

Forcing everyone to leave Manafont unlocked for any amount of time makes me cringe.

[Hogie]

I have thrown out so many idea's for Meteor recently i have already forgot half of them, but what if AV works in the same fashion as say KS99 Wyrm where at 59% he pulls out the ass wooping bracelets and then say at 39% he pulls them back in?

[Mojo]

That would have been observed in the zerg kills at least once, and it never was.

[Kaylia]

Going back to random theories. They are not easy to test by any means even if you can lock two hours. Again, even when an obvious hint was put right in front of our noses, it took people a year to finally test it properly. There are countless random theories in this thread already, more than will ever be tested. There is no point to suggesting them. You're not going to make some 'GREAT DISCOVERY', nobody is going to test them. It's just going to clutter everything up and make people not want to read the thread and consequently lose interest in methods that could potentially kill AV. This is exactly what happened when the videos were released and it's exactly why it took people a year to actually figure out how to lock two hours.

Hmm? Most gimmicks posted are easy to test, and are already ingame one way or the other. The tank parties are rarely involved, and all you have to do is set a 3rd party to test specific action. If you can hold AV outside of meteor, you can test stuff. Just make a list of 3-4 things you want to test beforehand, design a few people for each, and once it pop the gauntlet, try it. There was retarded ideas that were posted (pop every jailers in sea) that can't possibly be right for many reasons, but many are on par with "mimicking AV 2h" in term of simplicity.

We could say that no one test gimmick because they are constantly being frowned upon. We could also say that not many linkshell seriously attempt AV, and most attempts are duplicate in term of strategy and what is done. We could also blame the large amount of very deadly move it used to have (now it's limited to 1), the task might have seemed impossible at first. We could say it took so long because the time window is ridiculously short, and people were not using 3rd party.

Blamming the lack on progress on random theories that are posted is ridiculous. It would only be a tiny part of a much bigger issue, assuming it's even a problem.

[Suiram]

If people are interested in figuring out Bracelets damage bonus (and eventually, hopefully, Meteor damage formula), then someone could do this: A person (or even a lv1 mule) with no buffs, less than 89 INT, no magic damage or MDB gear (naked even better), stand in range of Aeroga 4 while AV is in bracelets mode. You don't have to be in the alliance; you could even be a spectator at someone else's fight. Report your INT (make sure if you used food you account for that, and preferably don't use food for that reason), and how many people in total got hit with it (make sure to turn off the appropriate filters to see this), as well as the damage you took.

[Yinnyth]

I have thrown out so many idea's for Meteor recently i have already forgot half of them, but what if AV works in the same fashion as say KS99 Wyrm where at 59% he pulls out the ass wooping bracelets and then say at 39% he pulls them back in?

I'll admit I don't know enough about AV to say that's impossible, but I do know enough about Wyrm to say that's not how he works. Wyrm goes through 3 distinctly different phases based on HP: Ground >> air >> wings up while on ground (like nidhogg after 2hr animation). SE has never really been a fan of making things get easier further along in the fight, but to be completely honest I've been sorta hoping for the same thing :/

[willriker]

That would have been observed in the zerg kills at least once, and it never was.

I dont know if anyone can really say this for certain. the whole reason why AV zerg worked was that we dropped AV's hp% so fast that the trigger for the second event, lets say 59% bracelets mode, activated before the first trigger could fully execute. This is the same reason why Bahamut V2 zergs are successful. When you glitch the AI like this you really dont know whats going on with the mob. for example when Bahamut V2 is at 49%.. what special move is he currently trying to use? Its almost impossible to tell cause the AI s all jumbled up from our point of view.

There are a few things you can get out of the AV zergs though. These would be:

It is/was killable.
He has triggers that activate at certain % HP.
These triggers do not activate instantly, rather you have a few moments to prepare for Whats coming if fighting normaly.
We found out how much HP AV has.

His behavior very well may change at lower HP%. You cant get this information from the successful zergs. On the other hand, the unsuccessful zergs, ones where the alliance could not damage AV fast enough can be used to see if this is true or not.

[Beave]

intelligent stuffs

Kay, I love you. Hope my net gets fixed soon so I can play again...also because bg on iPhone isn't so friendly

[Cairthenn]

^What is this shit?

[Siniroth]

I would like to point out that a very longtime ago, People have locked AV's meteor by consistantly killing his wyverns each time they popped at the same exact time.

They did?

[Therin]

Yeah, in like 2005. You can ignore that comment.

[Hogie]

I'll admit I don't know enough about AV to say that's impossible, but I do know enough about Wyrm to say that's not how he works. Wyrm goes through 3 distinctly different phases based on HP: Ground >> air >> wings up while on ground (like nidhogg after 2hr animation). SE has never really been a fan of making things get easier further along in the fight, but to be completely honest I've been sorta hoping for the same thing :/

Im talking specifically about KS99 Wyrm. At 66% it will take flight and it will not land until it hits 33%. During the time it flies it opens up a whole new set of abilities. Only reason im saying this is because most of the failed zerg attempts have been wiped mid way to a Meteor and they may not have got past the certain % you need to hit.

After looking back at the SE video though, when AV died he has his rec bracelets on so nvm

[Yinnyth]

Im talking specifically about KS99 Wyrm. At 66% it will take flight and it will not land until it hits 33%. During the time it flies it opens up a whole new set of abilities. Only reason im saying this is because most of the failed zerg attempts have been wiped mid way to a Meteor and they may not have got past the certain % you need to hit.

After looking back at the SE video though, when AV died he has his rec bracelets on so nvm

Yeah, Wyrm. The one that's actually named Wyrm. When he's on his last phase (less than 33% HP), his wings are in the raised position (pointed up instead of folded back... think of like Khim and how he can only use tourbillion while wings are up). While he's in raised wings mode, he gains significant bonuses to practically every stat. Nidhogg does the same thing randomly throughout the fight instead of simply for his last 33% HP, but Nidhogg does a golden 2hr cloud when he uses it and folds his wings back down in about a minute. Wyrm's raised wings are permanent after he lands. The only reason people perceive him as easier in raised wings mode than flying mode is because he only gets 2 WSs while in air, and both of them suck.

However, there have also been extended battles against AV at the wall of virtue wayyyy back in the day, and I don't remember anyone reporting his bracelets going away. Granted it might have been missed, not deemed as important, or even simply changed on any patch SE has ever done. It's possible there's a way to break bracelets, but I think it's more reasonable to hope for some way to make his bracelets less potent than they are in the many failed attempts we've heard about.

Or perhaps the cold, hard truth is that there is no weakening or breaking his ludicrous bracelets meteor, and you just need to have several alliances waiting to take your place when you go splat. Either way, I love a good challenge.

[cloudedge]

I would like to point out that a very longtime ago, People have locked AV's meteor by consistantly killing his wyverns each time they popped at the same exact time using ALOT of blms. The HP on the wyverns was much higher.

The only observed evidence that support this theory is the frequency of which Call-wyvren is used. If every 2 hrs seem to be used randomly, why is the Call-wyvren useage particularly skewed.

Also if JoL and AV are the same mob and the key to weakening JoL is to kill its pets, then perhaps it's worth a try to kill a few rounds of AV's pets...

Beside, did anyone know if SE attempt to lock Call-wyvren in the video when the RDM pull the wyverns away?

Edit: I checked up on the video. In the Eng version, it was the last 2hr they locked before cutting to the kill scene. It looks like they lock it around lightsday (it looked a bit blurry and that dot looked blue-whitiesh... at times...)

As VS pointed out, logic would say you should want to lock call wyvern first to force AV to use other 2hrs... so why did SE left it unlock for a good 90min...

[Ophannus]

A while back someone mentioned that if you deal enough dmg to the Wynavs that AV uses Spirit Link and loses about 1-2% of his HP. Is this true?

[cloudedge]

Also if JoL and AV are the same mob and the key to weakening JoL is to kill its pets, then perhaps it's worth a try to kill a few rounds of AV's pets...

I believe nuking a particular element and killing pets are the only gimmics that JoL has... so it potentially make sense to carry both of them over to AV

[Sifer]

A while back someone mentioned that if you deal enough dmg to the Wynavs that AV uses Spirit Link and loses about 1-2% of his HP. Is this true?

not true.

[Virtuous Saint]

A while back someone mentioned that if you deal enough dmg to the Wynavs that AV uses Spirit Link and loses about 1-2% of his HP. Is this true?

No possible way that is true.

[Virtuous Saint]

The only observed evidence that support this theory is the frequency of which Call-wyvren is used. If every 2 hrs seem to be used randomly, why is the Call-wyvren useage particularly skewed.

Also if JoL and AV are the same mob and the key to weakening JoL is to kill its pets, then perhaps it's worth a try to kill a few rounds of AV's pets...

Beside, did anyone know if SE attempt to lock Call-wyvren in the video when the RDM pull the wyverns away?

Edit: I checked up on the video. In the Eng version, it was the last 2hr they locked before cutting to the kill scene. It looks like they lock it around lightsday (it looked a bit blurry and that dot looked blue-whitiesh... at times...)

As VS pointed out, logic would say you should want to lock call wyvern first to force AV to use other 2hrs... so why did SE left it unlock for a good 90min...

The main logical reason AV uses Call Wyvern more frequently than any other 2hr is because it cannot use Familiar, Astral Flow, or Mijin Gakure without wynavs up, I just don't understand why every person who thinks about AV doesn't consider this above all else.

Btw we have killed at least 8 sets of wynavs before, which did absolutely nothing, but ya someone else should try like 10 sets to be sure.