Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Siniroth]

The main logical reason AV uses Call Wyvern more frequently than any other 2hr is because it cannot use Familiar, Astral Flow, or Mijin Gakure without wynavs up, I just don't understand why every person who thinks about AV doesn't consider this above all else.

I have to agree with that, but if there hasn't been a documented test since the last change to AV, would be good to test just to get out of the way for all the people thinking it could be the way to weaken him somewhat, and if it IS the way, just makes it all the sweeter

[Virtuous Saint]

I would like to point out that a very longtime ago, People have locked AV's meteor by consistantly killing his wyverns each time they popped at the same exact time using ALOT of blms. The HP on the wyverns was much higher.

I wouldn't debunk this theory yet because of 3 A.I reasons.

-Killing JOLs pets over and over does something to JOL so the feature is in the game.
-Killing Ying and Yang at the same time weakens Dynamis Lord so that feature is in the game.
-Doing anything to his pets might weaken in some way or form. This works for COUNTLESS mobs in the game ranging from dynamis lord, fortitude, ix drk, ANNM treasure coffer results, Splitting heirs BCNM or SCNM (one of those), PW's lamps, the list goes on, I name like 50 mobs that their pets affect them in some way or form.

Sundi was talking fight speed, not sure if he meant fight speed or regen but if he was talking about fight speed then he could have meant something like

-Hold AV, dont damage him too much. Nuke away his regen.
-Hold AV, Lock all is 2 hrs except call wyvern. Not locking call wyvern would slow down time if he keeps doing the same 2 hr. At the same time kill the wyverns with ga spell maybe 10 sets of wyvern.
-Lock the remaining 2 hours except call wyvern.
-Bring him down to bracelets mode and nuke all 6 wyverns down.
-Killing all the wyverns on 10 sets possibly locks or weakens MAB on bracelets but nothing else such as attack power.
-Finally start damaging AV some more and kill him.
-39% he starts to gain access to the last 2 hours you didn't lock, and does them in combination order back to back. such as mighty strikes, hundred fists, MS, HF, MS, HF... ect until you lock them.
-19% he gets a final defense boost and attack boost and slight evasion boost.
-0% he dies and drops raphaels rod and earth crystal. You get Virtious Saint title and start jumping up and down in your white underwears.



Ok so that was partially a joke, but killin sets of Wyverns was my serious idea in this post and is worth a shot. Not locking Call wyvern kills time because he uses that 2 hr alot slowing down the progress you have on locking the OTHER 2 hours, HOWEVER, because he uses call wyvern alot, you can kill them in sets and test if it does anything because it has locked AV in the past and so many mobs in this game are affected by their pets.
The key is in the fight speed... hold AV, lock every single fucking thing you can, then fight him. This is possibly what sundi could have also meant. You can do this test at 100% which makes it great to test but you need to get him to at least 79% to see if it worked or not.

I can tell you with about 90% certainty the reason it wasn't able to cast Meteor back then when people killed an enormous amount of wynav sets, in effect locking AV. The reason for this most likely was because back then there was a glitch with AV's AI where it tried to use AF/Familiar/MG when no wynavs were out, and it would constantly attempt to use it until it died. The reason it took so many wyvan sets usually was due to the fact that it could have attempted to use all other 2hrs instead of one of those 3, including call wyvern again which is the most used 2hr AV has.

Anyway, when it finally tried to use one of the 3, its AI would be locked to attempting to use that, and obviously it couldn't with no wynavs up. When its AI was locked it wasn't able to use any other 2hr (hence people thinking they locked all 2hrs) nor could it do anything but idle attack (I was not playing the game during those kills so I'm not sure if it was even able to cast at all) and pull out bracelets at 59% (can't explain this, but I don't need to).

Side note: PW's lamps do not affect him, and if you were to lock all 2hrs except CW it would use it once, then never again (read OP.....).

[Virtuous Saint]

I have to agree with that, but if there hasn't been a documented test since the last change to AV, would be good to test just to get out of the way for all the people thinking it could be the way to weaken him somewhat, and if it IS the way, just makes it all the sweeter

Ya I agree it could be wynavs for all I know, but I was just stating the most likely reason it uses CW more than anything else.

[Virtuous Saint]

.AV kind of works the same way, because he is HARDER with bracelets mode on, but he is easier because his 2 hours lock by themselves even if you didnt lock them after he uses them once each in bracelets mode... So his mode is both at the same time just like wyrm... but of course the obvious, AV is way stronger in bracelets mode but he also loses one thing (2 hrs) to gain another (broken high MAB).AV.

His 2hrs never lock themselves lol. When AV has 14/15 2hrs, the last 2hr can only be used once because he cannot use the same 2hr back to back (not locked, just can't be used again). When AV has bracelets out he will constantly rotate combinations of 2hrs until you lock at least 2/3 2hrs in each set (cannot use a combination without at least 2/3), he will use a single combination of 2hrs left on him once, then never again because he can't use the same combination back to back. So when he has 1 2hr left it will only be used once, and when he has 1 combination left it will only be used once.

P.S. Read OP%^^^^^^^^^^^^%^%^$#$##@

[Virtuous Saint]

I know that man.... You don't keep it last, u lock the 2 hours that AV normally does when he does them and You simply keep killing wyverns when he calls them out, if you haven't reached 10 sets of dead wyverns, then do not lock the last 2 hour that comes before call wyvern yet. I would try to kill 9 sets of wyverns, then lock all the 2 hrs, then lock the call wyvern during bracelets mode and kill the 6 wyvern in bracelets mode.
If it goes by the number the number of wyverns, then killing 6 wyverns would speed up the process over killing just 3. I am also aware that he will only do this ONCE in bracelets mode, hence why you kill 9 sets of x3 wyvern before bracelets and 1 set of x6 wuvern during bracelets. That = 10 sets.

Except you have to have that combination of 2hrs unlocked, you can't just go into bracelets with it having only CW, or only CW and another random 2hr. It has to have CW and another of the set CW is a part of when it pulls out bracelets.............. Guess what that set it? Look in OP of the thread, that will not be pretty no matter what 2 you leave up.

[Yinnyth]

Once again I know they do not lock themselves, it was just really hard to explain and I think the wyrm guy poster understodd by example and I understood why he compared wyrm to AV. I was always under the impression that he can only use a combination once during bracelets mode even if he had more then 1 combination. Like if he had invincible,benediction and had meiko + eagle eye shot. once he used all 4 two hour specials which is 2 combinations, he can no longer use them correct... or does that only work if he has 1 combination (invincible, benediction). I was under the impression in the OP that they lock once they are used one time in bracelets mode regardless of how many combinations he has left.

To simplify the current understanding of his 2hrs in bracelets mode:
1. His AI has set combinations of 2hrs he uses in bracelets, he will not simply pop 3 completely random ones at the same time.
2. He refuses to use a combination unless he is currently capable of using 2 of the 2hrs required for that combination.
3. He refuses to use the same combination twice in a row.

Even this information isn't 100%, but it's close enough to function as fact for right now. This is an area of research that could certainly use a lot of work since if we never really find a way to seal meteor and your LS doesn't have enough people to zerg, your best hope of winning is leaving him with 2hrs that decrease the frequency of his casting. I hope to get my linkshell to do some testing on this on our next attempt, but that's still a few weeks away... There's so many events ingame that are actually rewarding that it's a bit difficult scheduling in an event that offers nothing but exp loss.

[Virtuous Saint]

To simplify the current understanding of his 2hrs in bracelets mode:
1. His AI has set combinations of 2hrs he uses in bracelets, he will not simply pop 3 completely random ones at the same time.
2. He refuses to use a combination unless he is currently capable of using 2 of the 2hrs required for that combination.
3. He refuses to use the same combination twice in a row.

Even this information isn't 100%, but it's close enough to function as fact for right now. This is an area of research that could certainly use a lot of work since if we never really find a way to seal meteor and your LS doesn't have enough people to zerg, your best hope of winning is leaving him with 2hrs that decrease the frequency of his casting. I hope to get my linkshell to do some testing on this on our next attempt, but that's still a few weeks away... There's so many events ingame that are actually rewarding that it's a bit difficult scheduling in an event that offers nothing but exp loss.

Problem is, even if you slow the frequency they will still get off, and there really aren't going to be many combinations that could even slow it more than 10sec. Simple reality is, you can't survive bracelets Meteor unless you have a huge amount of people whether you slow it or not.

[theXXX]

VS in your opinion if a ls could throw 50-60 active members + mules at AV post 59% could they still win? And if you belive so...what strategy would you use? I was thinking of a regular ally stop @ 60% rest MP then SC MB with a shit load of blms. blms keep nuking their hearts out till the alliance wipes then maybe bring a non drk zerg ally in while the first ally tries to RR and get ready again. I know this strat would prolly be a lot of luck with meteor derailing the zerg but could it work? Reading all of this thread daily has me wanting to try AV even if its just throwing numbers at it.

[Saithorx]

In regards to using Call Wyvern during every 2 hour from this post http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/3048146-post84.html and http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/3048167-post89.html, could it be that call wyvern toggles AV's use of call wyvern on and off in addition to locking the 2 hour ability used? I'm not going as far to say that this could affect Meteor in any way, but it's interesting that he kept using call wyvern.

[seiji]

was the out of mana strat (by letting CS and another 2h up) tested?didnt read abou t it and it seemed to be somethig worth testing

(ib4 test it your self: i dont have a shell able te survive mpre tha 5min on AV)

[Hogie]

VS in your opinion if a ls could throw 50-60 active members + mules at AV post 59% could they still win? And if you belive so...what strategy would you use? I was thinking of a regular ally stop @ 60% rest MP then SC MB with a shit load of blms. blms keep nuking their hearts out till the alliance wipes then maybe bring a non drk zerg ally in while the first ally tries to RR and get ready again. I know this strat would prolly be a lot of luck with meteor derailing the zerg but could it work? Reading all of this thread daily has me wanting to try AV even if its just throwing numbers at it.

Im not 100% sure of VS's strat, but I had thought about something similar to this but using 1 party at a time to zerg it. Basically get a normal alliance to bring it to 60, at 60 drop a SC MB and then once everything has landed break alliance and log out. Aside from the normal alliance that was fighting it (Tank party, couple melee and blm army) you would have 3 or 4 solid merit partys waiting to go in 1 at a time. for argument sakes lets say WHM BRD RDM WAR WAR WAR (all /nin, and yes i know thats not a standard merit party but you will need the healing power) and they just bounce hate around until they wipe. Once they wipe, merit party 2 runs in and party 1 RRs and runs way the fuck away to rest up. Rinse and repeat for all the number of partys you have. While this is happening the first alliance is keeping a solid tank party around just in case and everyone else is changing to merit party type jobs.

You could even go one step further and make one of the merit partys a like... PLD RDM BLM BLM BLM BLM party and just let the BLM's go nuts as fast as possible every round nuking the element of the day.

Basically throw merit party after merit party at it while everyone is out of range. Would need to keep some absorb people in range for this "strat" like 4 RDM/SMN with carby out.

[HBX]

Ok, another stupid thought, and before I continue might I ask that some respond with a simple, direct, and hopefully polite reason what this observation is unimportant (if it truely is).

Just reviewing the video again *pausing for groans* .....and something about the first half involving JoL seemed a bit odd to me. Although I realize that they are primarily trying to show us that they are killing off lots and lots of pets, I was wondering why the seem intent on pulling them far away from JoL before they aga nuke them down. It seems like they are making sure they don't catch JoL in the AoE. In addition (and correct me if I simply overlooked it) there doesn't appear to be a single spell cast on JoL other than enfeebling magic (could make out lots of flashes, blind, sleep, and dispel) and I believe leviathan (though could have just been meleeing).

I do appologise if this is something easily explained and/or know, but it seemed strange to me.

[Virtuous Saint]

VS in your opinion if a ls could throw 50-60 active members + mules at AV post 59% could they still win? And if you belive so...what strategy would you use? I was thinking of a regular ally stop @ 60% rest MP then SC MB with a shit load of blms. blms keep nuking their hearts out till the alliance wipes then maybe bring a non drk zerg ally in while the first ally tries to RR and get ready again. I know this strat would prolly be a lot of luck with meteor derailing the zerg but could it work? Reading all of this thread daily has me wanting to try AV even if its just throwing numbers at it.

I would take it to 60% having locked every 2hr except PD and MS (PD is irrelevant it will not use it once bracelets are out), and fully locked regen. The alliance that got AV to 60% would then hold it, keeping it as close to 60% as possible. I would have 2 zerg alliances, preferably of WARs for MS crit damage, and a few CORs in the alliance to reset all of the WARs abilities, and possibly reset their MS.


AV has access to 2 2hrs MS and PD, when it uses MS you wait until it is off (soon as you see AV cast after using), you then have the first alliance (most powerful) get full buffs from the CORs and SV songs etc.. The next 2hr AV will use is obviously PD, at this time your players will still be getting buffs (it is vital you start the zerg at the correct time, you do not want to be caught still buffing when the moment comes). Now PD is over and the first zerg alliance is fully buffed, the alliance holding AV unclaims it (do this at anytime while they are buffing) so that the first zerg alliance can go directly to attacking it instead of waiting for death/unclaim.

The next 2hr it will use will be MS, everyone in the first zerg alliance should be engaged and fully buffed, when they see the dust cloud they immediately begin attacking. They have 45sec on AV and it cannot WS (aoe stun them), cast, or pull out bracelets until it is off. AV will have virtually no way of killing anyone during this 45sec due to rapid hate changing. When the first zerg alliance goes the second is getting fully buffed, and after the first zerg alliance is all dead and AV goes unclaimed, the second alliance goes immediately, hopefully killing it quickly as it will be a million times harder than when it was under MS. If this doesn't kill it, it is just a matter of having even more players at your disposal.

[Yinnyth]

Edit: VS beat me to it

[Diomer]

I would take it to 60% having locked every 2hr except PD and MS (PD is irrelevant it will not use it once bracelets are out), and fully locked regen. The alliance that got AV to 60% would then hold it, keeping it as close to 60% as possible. I would have 2 zerg alliances, preferably of WARs for MS crit damage, and a few CORs in the alliance to reset all of the WARs abilities, and possibly reset their MS.


AV has access to 2 2hrs MS and PD, when it uses MS you wait until it is off (soon as you see AV cast after using), you then have the first alliance (most powerful) get full buffs from the CORs and SV songs etc.. The next 2hr AV will use is obviously PD, at this time your players will still be getting buffs (it is vital you start the zerg at the correct time, you do not want to be caught still buffing when the moment comes). Now PD is over and the first zerg alliance is fully buffed, the alliance holding AV unclaims it (do this at anytime while they are buffing) so that the first zerg alliance can go directly to attacking it instead of waiting for death/unclaim.

The next 2hr it will use will be MS, everyone in the first zerg alliance should be engaged and fully buffed, when they see the dust cloud they immediately begin attacking. They have 45sec on AV and it cannot WS (aoe stun them), cast, or pull out bracelets until it is off. AV will have virtually no way of killing anyone during this 45sec due to rapid hate changing. When the first zerg alliance goes the second is getting fully buffed, and after the first zerg alliance is all dead and AV goes unclaimed, the second alliance goes immediately, hopefully killing it quickly as it will be a million times harder than when it was under MS. If this doesn't kill it, it is just a matter of having even more players at your disposal.

Assuming the holding alli could get enough hate above the zerging WARs at least for a bit, you could have both zerg allis go at the same time until one of them pulled enough hate to get it claimed to that alli (In fact, everyone except the holding party could) Once it gets claimed to one alli, the other one backs off and finishes it off if need be after the first one goes down. If AV dies unclaimed, the alli with the person who killed it gets the drops so that's not a problem but I don't think the holding alli could keep hate that long anyway.

[Shinryuu]

18 WARs with Mighty Strikes?

[Yugl]

Any of you AV testers want to transfer to Diaboros and give me JoL items?

[Virtuous Saint]

Assuming the holding alli could get enough hate above the zerging WARs at least for a bit, you could have both zerg allis go at the same time until one of them pulled enough hate to get it claimed to that alli (In fact, everyone except the holding party could) Once it gets claimed to one alli, the other one backs off and finishes it off if need be after the first one goes down. If AV dies unclaimed, the alli with the person who killed it gets the drops so that's not a problem but I don't think the holding alli could keep hate that long anyway.

Not practical, and people's buffs would wear before they could get a chance to fight it as one of the alliances claims it almost instantly. You don't need a lot of hate to claim it, it would be claimed almost instantaneously.

[Virtuous Saint]

18 WARs with Mighty Strikes?

Pretty much, but throw in a COR in each party after everyone is fully buffed. 1COR in each party would be more effective than an extra WAR in each party just due to them getting at least all abilities back instantly. They should obviously have Berserk and Aggressor up when PD ends so they don't waste additional time when they start. MS>Steel Cyclone>Meditate>Wing>Steel Cyclone>Wild Card>Meditate>Raging Rush etc., basically just deal as much damage as possible in 45sec. Btw at 100%-57%ish which is what our WAR zerg got it to before we knew how to lock 2hrs, Steel Cyclones did 1500-2000+damage per, but obviously unknown how much less damage AV will take when it gets extremely low.

* Depending on if/how much TP the wild card gets them back, they could do another Steel Cyclone instead of a different WS.

[Narse]

Tested the idea that multiple 2hrs at the same time AV uses his can lock multiple 2hrs at once. Did not happen. Tested that any 2hr can lock any 2hr (use manafont against Call Wyvern, for example). Did not happen. May have made a HUGE discovery though, not certain, must talk to a person concerning it to verify.