Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Virtuous Saint]

I was at the 2007 fanfest where they didn't show the AV video.
SE's explanation was that it would taken them the entire eng/testing team of (about 20-30 ppl), 10+ hours to kill AV, and they needed the time to get WoG done.

I don't think they were lying as they had to scramble and hired some band to play a mini-concert for us (rather than scheduling the Star Onion). If the thought of cheating had occurred to them, I think they would have done it to make it happen for the fanfest.

I don't think that means much really lol, they had to take time to get people to do the video which they clearly couldn't do at the time whether they cheated or not (then again that could have easily been a lie). Based on the video, if they didn't take like 20-30hr or reset 2hrs constantly it doesn't make sense. They all 2hr multiple times Iceday and Lightning day. Who cares about this anyway tho..

[Kaeko]

Here was an old private post I made regarding this (written towards Odin team) back in June. A couple parts of this are probably outdated. This is a non-ONEVENT strategy (though I do not condemn its use for AV testing). I have personally never heard of a group successfully locking even half of AV's 2hrs without massive use of ONEVENT though - the success rate doing it manually is just too low to work with the 2hr time limit.

Kanican - Absolute Virtue Lock Mechanism

There were at least 6 LSs going at this over the course of the last 5 months. I think it's safe to say that we tested a good portion of the 'crazy ideas' and came up with only loses. I truly hope some fresh blood can come in here and pick up where we left off.

My personal best strategy right now would be to do this...

(1) kill JoL at 30min mark to remove as much regen as possible from pets.
(2) lock AV using a tool-based strategy + reduce regen with elemental nukes
(3) move AV to the palace entrance (see blog about that)
(4) use ramp to block meteor on the backline
(5) use some form of DD to slowly kill it.

Lastly, just so credit is given where it is due, the LS that discovered this basically never posts on BG, so please don't think that any of us 'figured' this out. We simply have added to it in our own various ways.

Best of luck to anyone that's still serious about this.

[Siniroth]

Kaeko continues to be awesome

[thetruepandagod]

How long does it take to take AV to the bridge with the annoying draw in now?

[donnie]

How long does it take to take AV to the bridge with the annoying draw in now?

took us 10-13min from past tries.

[Kaeko]

How long does it take to take AV to the bridge with the annoying draw in now?

About 10 minutes. Sac with lvl 1 mules works pretty well. As does SMN Garuda assault > retreat > run.

Another thing you can do is PUP DAD to hold AV in place (it'll walk back if it stays idle for about 15 seconds).

We had an alternative 'cheese' strategy involving zone-nuke LVL1 PUP sub DAD but that one didn't turn out well either really. Odin team never Onevented so we pretty much resorted to cheese testing unfortunately. The PUP DAD was pretty good; however, the regen rate was too high to counter with zone-nuke.

EDIT:

This is the DAD strategy we were using (did not work due to high regen). Just a copy paste.

This was the rough plan discussed by Chalis, Donnie, and myself after last weekend's PW fight.

At this point, I will assume that everyone reading this knows the lock method and the idea that we match 2hr via animation. This strategy does use this lock, HOWEVER, we are NOT locking all 2hrs with this strategy. This strategy is NOT 100% legit, and it is a CHEESE KILL. I will explain in detail starting with these facts given to us by one of my sources (who wishes to remain anon), Apathy from Remora, as well as our own attempts and testing.

Sections:
(1) Know These Facts Before Moving Forward
(2) Strategy Overview
(3) Zone-Nuke
(4) XXX/PUP Holding
(5) Putting It All Together
(6) Benediction and Other 2HRs
(7) Alliance Setups For Zone-Nuke
(8) Leadership

****************

(1) Know These Facts Before Moving Forward

1) Regen can be 100% nerfed by waiting out JoL adds (basically until it spawns only sharks) before killing it, then when AV pops, nuking the element of day repeatedly (roughly 100x should be sufficient). The damage does NOT matter, the tier of nuke does NOT matter. It is best to use tier 1 nukes or dia1 / bio1. Once this is nerfed, Regen will disappear and will not return, even after wipes and idling.

2) This method does NOT remove the regen nearly all mobs in the game have when they idle (10% chunks if left idle w/o DoT for about 10+ seconds). I've sure you've all seen this before (especially if you're a BST). Because AV removes all enfeebles, including DoTs, when it idles, the only way you can prevent this type of regen is by constantly claiming it, an issue I will get into later.

3) AV is movable. We proved this last attempt when we moved it to the palace. It draws in but can still be moved with sac or by slowly walking. It took us roughly 12 minutes to move it from spawn to palace via Hynmus sac last attempt. ~10 minutes is probably a reasonable estimate of time for this next attempt.

4) The height difference of the ramp at the palace entrance does block meteor. For instance, if AV meteors the tank below, the mages at the top of the ramp will be spared.

****************

(2) Strategy Overview

This strategy is based on a "nuke-zone" cheese kill strategy. The basics are that we...

1) Wait out JoL adds (until only sharks) then kill it (25-30min)
2) Immediately claim AV and hold, attempting to lock DRG 2hr while spamming 'correct' element nukes to nerf regen
2a) While not essential, we will make TEN ATTEMPTS to lock BLM and PLD 2hrs specifically via animation match
3) Move AV to the palace entrance (DRG needs to be locked, BLM and PLD are optional and luck basically)
4) Zone Nuke Strategy + PUP Hold Strategy (will go in depth on this)

The first 4 parts of this are things we as a group have already attempted and tested. Killing JoL and waiting out adds should be self explanatory. Holding AV and attempting locks we have tried twice. We know DRG will be used very early - PLD and BLM are common but not 100%. We will essentially have 10 BLMs (used from JoL anyways) and 10 PLDs ready to sub in and out attempting to match AV by animation (luck). These are locks of convenience and if neither occurs we will proceed anyways. During this hold, we will also have 4-5 players spamming tier 1 nukes. The damage doesn't matter, just quantity of nukes.

I will outline the final part of the strategy in a separate section...

****************

(3) Zone-Nuke

We will position AV similar to how we tried last attempt; PLD tanks at the bottom of the ramp, all backline at the top. For this attempt that will include BLMs, some CORs, and WHM party. This serves 2 key benefits - 1) Height block of meteor, 2) immediate access to a zone. The alliance for attacking AV will consist of...

PLD COR BLM x4
COR BLM x5
COR BLM x5
(SCH can be used instead of BLM)
(COR uses Warlocks, Wizard Rolls)

PLD is at the bottom, others at the top.

When ready to attack, PLD uses Fealty and proceeds to claim and Sentinel on AV. During this ~30-60 sec period, the PLD will be immune to essentially every enfeeble other than Soul Voice Charm. In addition, meteor damage will be cut by -90%. Sentinel will provide physical damage protection. He will also have a WHM party ready to cure spam. The goal of the PLD is not to necessarily tank AV long term, but to hold it in place and survive for 30-60 seconds.

As the PLD claims, all BLMs should have Rolls up (possibly Weather if using SCH). BLMs spam 2-3 nukes then immediately zones out and stays zoned until the PLD and all others have died (basically until AV resets). You can nuke any element you please - once regen is nerfed you are not required to continue nuking the 'correct' element. If you are a BLM, all you really have to know are these things:

1) If you see the PLD die, zone asap regardless of your nuke situation.
2) If it has been ~30 seconds since the PLD's claim, zone asap - he's not surviving much longer.
3) If you see anyone get drawn in, zone asap.
4) If you see AV moving significant (likely rounding towards the ramp), zone asap.
5) Once you zone, don't zone back out until given the signal that AV has reset.
6) Nuke whatever element you want for maximum damage
7) Use ES whenever possible
8) Always wait for the PLD to initiate the claim. Do not nuke an idle AV - always wait for the PLD to begin.
9) There is no complex "timing" to nuke at the same time. You see your PLD claim, you spam nukes.

This is very basic. These same rules apply to the WHM party as well as the CORs (basically ANYONE that touches or gets on the hate list during the short gank). Zone out and try to keep yourself alive.

Damage is dealt in these short spurts of damage. The key thing for this is...

The PLD initiates the attack. No one in this group of players should ever claim AV other than the PLD.

"Progress" on AV's HP will be "saved" by the fact regen has been nerfed, coupled with the fact that another team will dedicate themselves to solely preventing Regen 10% chunks due to idle.

****************

(4) XXX/PUP Holding

Attacks via the strategy written above occur at slightly random and spaced out times. In between attacks, in order to ensure that AV remains at the palace and that Regen 10%s do not occur, this team will constantly claim and reset AV. Here are some facts about puppets that are relevant to this strategy:

1) Puppet hate is not linked to the PUP. For instance, if you "deploy" (the assault command for pup), the puppet will cast dia (at lvl1). If the puppet dies or is deactivated (released), the mob will idle and not attack the pup.

2) "Activate" (basically call puppet) is on a 20 minute JA timer. However, similar to the Dragoon call pet, if your "Deactivate" (dismiss) the puppet at 100% HP, the activate recast timer automatically resets to 0. Because of this, if your puppet never gets hit, you can call your puppet once a minute (limited by the 1 minute recast of "Deactivate")

3) Unlike DRG, when you sub PUP, you still gain access to a puppet.

This holding strategy requires roughly 6 (possibly a few more just in case) 75XXX/01PUP jobs. Really the job doesn't matter - as long as you're subbing or main lvl1 PUP or greater. There's really infinite flexibility for this part since the only moves you need are lvl1 pup moves.

The ~6 PUPs basically rotate doing this sequence of actions...

1) Activate Puppet
2) "Deploy" on AV (puppet will Dia if LVL1)
3) IMMEDIATELY "Deactivate" the puppet after Dia lands
4) Wait 1 minute for "Deactivate" timer to reset

You basically need a /PUP to claim with the puppet once every ~10 seconds to prevent the 10% regen chunks and keep AV at the right spot. This is relatively simple and you just need to keep a good order. The key is to deactivate your puppet the instant the dia lands - the puppet needs to be deactivated with 100% HP to reset the activate recast timer. In addition, you don't want AV spamming meteor on the puppet because it'll wipe everyone not on the ramp.

The best thing about this is every time you claim AV, it takes 3-4 seconds to draw out its weapon before doing any actions. This is true regardless of what HP% it is. Because of this "grace period", you should ALWAYS be able to deactivate your puppet well before AV attempts any actions.

This alliance/party of /PUPs acts COMPLETELY SEPARATE from the attack alliance in the previous section. The SOLE JOB of this group is to prevent 10% regen and constantly keep AV claimed and at the right position. Do not worry about when the PLD wants to yank AV off you - just keep the claims and the /PUP deploy order. Without this group, no progress can be 'saved' on AV.

In my opinion, this is the MOST CRUCIAL part of the strategy and the easiest to screw up. Because of this, I highly suggest that the most reliable (perhaps the better word is awake) players do this job. You can be any level so long as pup is unlocked.

****************

(5) Putting It All Together

Once AV is at the ramp, the PUPs begin rotating deploy and deactivates to hold AV in place and 'save progress' on HP. Because the puppet is always removed during the "grace period" after AV is claimed, AV will not actually be able to do anything while you hold it if done correctly.

Meanwhile, the attack alliance readies itself. PLD at the bottom, all others at the top including the WHM party. When ready, the PLD claims AV and the attack begins. You do NOT need to coordinate with the /PUPs when you want to claim - just do it if you're the PLD. When the PLD has claimed, all PUPs need to bail to avoid Meteor deaths. Once the attack is over (all zoned and PLD dead), the PUPs will rush back in and regain control over AV and being the order again. Continue until the next attack is ready.

This requires multiple PLDs to run efficiently. Because you need Fealty (20MIN JA for most PLDs), once a PLD goes, they need to zone back and change jobs to and back to PLD to reset JA timers then come back. We estimate 4-5 PLDs needed for optimal efficiency.

AV has roughly 66,000 HP. Nukes range from 400-800 damage on AV depending on Bracers, individual BLM strength, and the elemental magic building resists nerf. With 13-14 BLMs each spamming ~2 nukes per attack, you're looking at roughly 26-28 nukes. If all of these nukes do around 500 damage (very conservative estimate), you're looking at 13k-14k damage per attack, or ~20% of AV's HP! This is extremely fast if worked efficiently. Ideally we will have about 1 hour to attempt this zone nuke idea and it should only really take 15-20 minutes to pull this off in my opinion.

****************

(6) Benediction and Other 2HRs

Ideally if this strategy plays out, the only thing that can halt it is Benediction spam (which it will do quite frequently after 59% bracers come out. In addition, some of the other 2hrs are quite nasty as well. At the beginning I mentioned that we will focus on DRG as the 'must lock' 2hr and make ~10 ATTEMPTS to lock PLD and BLM 2hrs. Locking BLM is purely convenience. Locking PLD is to indirectly lock Benediction.

AV uses 2hrs in 'combos' after 59%. One of these combos is PLD > WHM > NIN. By locking PLD early on, the theory is you will lock the entire combo, includinb Benediction. As AV cannot use Benediction alone outside of this combo, you will essentially lock WHM and NIN by locking PLD. However, locking PLD is not 100% and we are only 'attempting' it early on. In the event that it is not locked...

Because AV is very predictable as to which 2hrs are used after 59%, we will simple place 1 WHM in the attack alliance during our attacks. When AV readies and uses Invincible after 59%, you 100% KNOW the next 2hr will be Benediction. Because of this, the WHM can simply react to the animation w/o seeing the 2HR in log because the combo is predictable. In this method, we lock Benediction (lose our current progress, but lock nonetheless).

****************

(7) Alliance Setups For Zone-Nuke

Attack Alliance
PLD COR BLMx4
COR BLMx5
COR BLMx5

(Spare BLMs - variable amount)

PLD x4 (waiting rotation into the main attack alliance)

BRD WHM x4-5 (Priority for Ghorn Here)

PUP Hold Alliance
XXX/PUP x6
(possibly extras)

This strategy only really takes ~30 people to run effectively. We will find room for extras though.

****************

(8) Leadership

Finally, while this strategy takes about ~30 people near the end (probably more to run quickly at the start with locking), I have narrowed do about 13 key spots that are absolutely critical to the zone nuke strategy. These are the spots that require either the most sense of timing or are just the spots where "you can't screw up".

x6 XXX/PUP positions - critical to preventing regen and requires coordinate and timing

x4 PLD puller positions - initiates all attacks and requires fealty merit

BLM alliance leader - coordinates DDs from inside the attack group

WHM party leader - coordinates PLD healing from ramp position

AV Lock Party Leader - during lock of initial hold of AV, constantly rotates PLD BLM and DRG in and out for locks. This requires you know who's next etc. and getting people invited in a timely manner.

If you are reading this and personally want to be one of these positions, please post back here or talk to one of the leaders in game. We need these spots filled prior to the fight to ensure good coordination during the fight. I especially need help filling the PUP positions - you only need PUP unlocked. It's OK if you have absolutely no clue how to play PUP - Chalis and I will be doing a run-through with the pup holders on a normal Aern mob so you can get used to things.

[thetruepandagod]

I have a 75 whm mule with sea access we been using to sac AV if your interested in playing it some time kaeko to test some things

[Kaeko]

I have a 75 whm mule with sea access we been using to sac AV if your interested in playing it some time kaeko to test some things

I actually don't play much/any atm b/c of school - just trolling forums. Still, hoping someone finishes AV off.

EDIT:

More info to be dumped. This one may not be that useful but whatever.

http://www13.atwiki.jp/bartlett/pages/291.html

JP link that goes over the fact that AV has different 'color' dust clouds (pics included). Found it interested and even showed it to Corinth for translation awhile back. I'm not sure if it means anything.

[thetruepandagod]

kk

edit: oh wow that jp link u posted is actually a group on sylph that i have been talking to

[Ramses]

I don't think the SE video is more than 2-3hr, the camera people likely had specific filters which let them indicate the hints they were trying to convey. Clearly by the fact that they all just 2hred every single time it 2hred, they weren't looking at chat log. I am highly confident they cheated by way of no recast on 2hrs in order to more easily show their hints, and kill it quickly. They could have cheated in other ways we don't know but it doesn't really matter tbh.

I didn't find out how to lock the 2hrs, I'm just stating how you do it.

In one of the SE videos, they all 2 hour to counter hundred fists when there is clearly no mnk anywhere near AV. Why would they actually chose this segment to show us when it is actually NOT the way to lock AV? If it was just that they were auto 2 houring every time AV did, why would they not leave out the ones that didn't show the proper strategy? Idk, just something that is bugging me.

[Mojo]

It's obvious... they didn't want to make it a dead giveaway, so they simply showed that there was some correlation with following AVs two hour abilities with player activated two hour abilities.

[Flic]

A question for Apathy members. Have you guys tryed blu on av in a similar role to what you used to beat pw?

[Kaeko]

Didn't see this in the OP, but the regen rate after all pets killed + 200+ dias on lightsday was about 2%/minute (~60HP/tick). I think we had some debate over this since you claimed 1%/minute with full nerf. We never locked bene though (possible change?).

The regen rate is a pretty huge thing to overcome as you get deeper into the fight. You have to deal with the -30% damage taken at 60-79% and the -50% damage taken at bracers mode 59%, and the regen rate doesn't change. Just something to keep in mind.

Also, random picks of the ideal "ramp positioning" to avoid meteor.

http://img405.imageshack.us/gal.php?...0620192137.png

It's basic height abuse. Note that if you position AV too close under the ramp, it can directly TP move someone from above. When a mob readies a TP move, it only checks X distance, not Y distance, so it can still get off things like Medusa Jav. from below even if you're 10 stories on top of it.

Also, about meteor block, if you are on the underpass of the ramp (on the water, but under the ramp), it will block meteor as well I believe. So if you so wish, you can place your backline below, but directly under the ramp and that should meteor block. I know for sure if you stand OTHER SIDE of the ramp it will block it. I personally think being on top with the zone is better but there are advantages to staying below (for like say COR buffs I guess).

Lastly, in case you are thinking of trying the other ramps (the ones used for CoP missions to get inside where you fight the Aerns), it doesn't work - there's 1 sliver that has enough height and you can't fit 20+ bodies on that 1 small spec of the ramp - so if you want to use height abuse, you'll have to take it to the zone.

[Kipling]

Did someone GM you guys for trying that, Kaeko? Just asking because I saw the last screen, heh.

[Kaeko]

Did someone GM you guys for trying that, Kaeko? Just asking because I saw the last screen, heh.

To move him to a 'raisable' area, we GM'd for him. We never had issues with griefing or other people GM-abusing us. Very well-mannered server. As far as if it is 'legal' to move AV... well half the time people do this accidentally when wiping (and it goes on a killing spree). We just basically had a 10 minute killing spree where we kept inching closer west. As far as I can tell, this is legal, but of course if you get a GM on a bad day they could say otherwise.

It would have been interesting if he had had RR up though.

[Kipling]

To move him to a 'raisable' area, we GM'd for him. We never had issues with griefing or other people GM-abusing us. Very well-mannered server.

It would have been interesting if he had had RR up though.

Oohh.. I see now, ha.

[Virtuous Saint]

A question for Apathy members. Have you guys tryed blu on av in a similar role to what you used to beat pw?

not exactly

[Virtuous Saint]

Didn't see this in the OP, but the regen rate after all pets killed + 200+ dias on lightsday was about 2%/minute (~60HP/tick). I think we had some debate over this since you claimed 1%/minute with full nerf. We never locked bene though (possible change?).

The regen rate is a pretty huge thing to overcome as you get deeper into the fight. You have to deal with the -30% damage taken at 60-79% and the -50% damage taken at bracers mode 59%, and the regen rate doesn't change. Just something to keep in mind.

Also, random picks of the ideal "ramp positioning" to avoid meteor.

ImageShack -

It's basic height abuse. Note that if you position AV too close under the ramp, it can directly TP move someone from above. When a mob readies a TP move, it only checks X distance, not Y distance, so it can still get off things like Medusa Jav. from below even if you're 10 stories on top of it.

Also, about meteor block, if you are on the underpass of the ramp (on the water, but under the ramp), it will block meteor as well I believe. So if you so wish, you can place your backline below, but directly under the ramp and that should meteor block. I know for sure if you stand OTHER SIDE of the ramp it will block it. I personally think being on top with the zone is better but there are advantages to staying below (for like say COR buffs I guess).

Lastly, in case you are thinking of trying the other ramps (the ones used for CoP missions to get inside where you fight the Aerns), it doesn't work - there's 1 sliver that has enough height and you can't fit 20+ bodies on that 1 small spec of the ramp - so if you want to use height abuse, you'll have to take it to the zone.

The -30% and -50% damage taken based on %'s of HP aren't 100% accurate obviously btw. I've watched many of our videos and the strange thing is that Shield Bash damage just seems to get progressively weaker throughout 50-100% HP, and not just at 79% and 59%. I've seen a lot of different amounts of damage come from them, not just 3 select damages 100%, 70%, and 50% damage. All I can say is it actually seems to just take less damage the lower it gets, without having set %s where it receives -30% damage and -50% damage...

[Starr]

It's nice that people have got this far but it's still rediculous to need up to 50 people just for 2 hours and stupid that he takes so little damage, now that we have found SE's funny little secret they should just make it weak enough to kill, maybe increase the HP again but drop the damage reduction shit and make his spells weaker.

[Thunder]

The -30% and -50% damage taken based on %'s of HP aren't 100% accurate obviously btw. I've watched many of our videos and the strange thing is that Shield Bash damage just seems to get progressively weaker throughout 50-100% HP, and not just at 79% and 59%. I've seen a lot of different amounts of damage come from them, not just 3 select damages 100%, 70%, and 50% damage. All I can say is it actually seems to just take less damage the lower it gets, without having set %s where it receives -30% damage and -50% damage...

So your experiences show it taking less damage each 1% hp it goes down?
~30% taken at ~79% hp with ~50% taken at ~59% hp means ~90% taken at ~9% hp?

Or do you know if it stops at 50% like your bolded text suggests?