Absolute Virtue Information (OP Updated)

[Cyprias]

So that's the hint the whole time! Chi blast burn; sure missed that one.

Although, in a serious note, who knows how effective it is; doubt it's anything spectacular to beating him though.

[TheMysteriousX]

One thing I noticed was that our pld did spirits within for 843 dmg and also my chi blast did 243 dmg after like 3 boosts. I was only wearing an osode when I did that and wasnt expecting to really do any damage. Any mnk out there with full mind gear try to chi blast this thing?

Spirits within and chi blast do constant damage unless the target has special resistance to it. 18 monks chi blasting is not the answer.

[Thorny]

Stupid question: Have chi blast, atonement, and spirits within been confirmed to recieve the damage dealt cut as AV's hp drops? I would assume they do and the people talking about it simply tried at 100%, but no firsthand experience with spirits/chi and atonement can be written off as poor enmity if it looks weak.

If they are not nerfed, a MNK can average 800 damage per chi blast easily, on a 4 min timer(3 min recast but every other one will need weakness waited out). At 15 chi blasts per hour, that would be 12000 damage. Six monks could overkill AV within an hour by 'spamming' chi and using hymnused mules to keep it from regenning. A melee with a hp build could also replace a MNK, assuming someone held mobs for them to tp off of while weakened so once unweak they only need a cure and can go asap. Of course, I'm assuming the damage-% also applies to chi and spirits, but if it doesn't here's the next cheap shot until patch.

[Dramafinderftw]

If they are not nerfed, a MNK can average 800 damage per chi blast e

Would this require some fucking epic pwn chi-blast set?

[Thorny]

Would this require some fucking epic pwn chi-blast set?

No, that's rather low-end as an estimate. I'm fairly sure this is all irrelevant as he gets a straight damage taken-% as his hp drops, but if it doesn't apply to chi/spirits it wouldn't be particularly difficult to zombie him down.

[D44kpunk]

No, that's rather low-end as an estimate. I'm fairly sure this is all irrelevant as he gets a straight damage taken-% as his hp drops, but if it doesn't apply to chi/spirits it wouldn't be particularly difficult to zombie him down.

i don't think it woulda been that hard to zombie him down in the first place with sam/thfs(if its even doable, i personally think AV would ready an action before 1shotting you with an attack and bene would ruin strat) i could be wrong though

[Mojo]

I've seen Chi Blast do around 1500-1700 to AV, so it doesn't have any special resistance (maybe Alariko of Hades still has the screenshot if you can find him.) However, Chi Blast does experience the same sort of penalty that elemental magic does (lower damage after first one goes off, etc.) If you broke AVs regen and had some mules that could hold it so it didn't regen, you could probably zombie it with Chi Blasts if you had a good number of MNKs.

[willriker]

Chi Blast!? LMAO every time i hear of Chi Blast it triggers memories of old school kited Kirins. Man those were good times.

On a bit more of a serious note. Now that Wyvern Glitching, Wall of Justice, Soul Eater zerg, and Helix's are out of the question. I would agree that Chis Blast would be a reasonable aproach. Especialy seeing that moderately geared MNK's can put out 800 damage Chi Blasts every 4-5minutes. 6 should be able to kill this in an hour. So the damage does fall within the time limit (assuming it doesnt take terribly long to lock Beni.)

Figure the best LS's can tank it down to 80%+ while locking things like beni and reducing AV's Regen. If they can do that preperation AV would have regen locked up as much as possible, no Beni, and be at ~56000 HP with about 70 minutes left on the clock.

This means that you would need about 70 Chi Blasts for 800 damage a pop. Lets say you have 6 MNK's. That is ~12 Chi Blasts each. While waiting for weakness to wear off, so 5 minute recast, You are looking at 60 minutes of Chi Blasting. So, you have about 10 minutes to spare. Assuming a zombie type of strategy and the MNK's getting R3's; each MNK would lose about 3600 exp.

6 MNK's would be cutting the timer a bit too close for me. And, i do not think many of the best LS's would have trouble mustering up 10 MNK's. I mean these are not properly Merited SCH's that we are talking about. Nor are we talking about Uber geared MNK's. With 10 MNK's the picture changes a bit.

Assuming the same prep work is done before Chi Blasts, but now 10 MNK's. Youll still need 70 chi blasts at 800 per blast. Each MNK would need to pump out 7 Chi Blasts. 5 min per Chi Blast is 35 minutes. And a loss of 2100 exp/mnk.


6 MNK's + 800 damage/blast + 5 min/blast + 100% AV (~70,000 HP)
88 blasts
15 blasts/mnk
75 minutes
4500 exp loss per MNK (R3)
19,500 exp loss per MNK (R1)

10 MNK's + 800 damage/blast + 5 min/blast + 100% AV (~70,000 HP)
87 blasts
9 blasts/mnk
44 minutes
2700 exp loss per MNK (R3)
11,700 exp loss per MNK (R1)


6 MNK's + 800 damage/blast + 5 min/blast + 80% AV (~56,000 HP)
70 blasts
12 blasts/mnk
60 minutes
3600 exp lost per MNK (R3)
15,600 exp lost per MNK (R1)


10 MNK's + 800 damage/blast + 5 min/blast + 80% AV (~56,000 HP)
70 blasts
7 blasts/MNK
35 minutes
2100 exp lost per MNK (R3)
9100 exp lost per MNK (R1)


Knowns:
-Chi Blast hits for full damage, assuming 100% AV HP
-takes less coordination than Zergs/straight tanking/Helix strats
-jobs required are more common to most LS's
-can strike AV with Chi Blast as an opening action, cant hit you first


Unknowns:
-Does AV's damage reduction effect Chi Blast as its HP is reduced. This is the big one.
-How much MND gear are we talking about. People say Average gear. But numbers would help people.
-Is it worth it for the MNKs to join a buff type of party, then disband, before they blast. Is DMG/SEC increased by enough of a margin to take in the down time it involves toget your buffs.

[Yinnyth]

In my experience with AV, zombie tactics are extremely difficult to pull off well. Not that it would be impossible, but he shrugs off all DoT when he puts away his spear. If you leave him on his own for (...is it 30 seconds for first tick...?) he gets back ~7k HP which is pretty painful. If you're talking about doing this with chi blast, you're talking about a very small window of opportunity each monk gets to hit AV with their full power. It only takes one mistake-- one person who forgets their place in the order or screws up their timing-- to ruin the entire attempt. To make matters worse, once he hits 79% and gets access to meteor, he can pick off any overly curious members standing too close to the person currently on zombie duty. I don't want to say it's impossible to pull off, but I really think even with a very skilled group, it's a one in a million chance.

I've thought heavily about ways to zombie AV and the conclusion I've come to is that the absolute best you can hope for is preventing his idle-time regen by throwing ~3-6 PUPs or /PUPs at him for activate deploy deactivate trick. Even with AV's regen fully sealed, even with PUPs ADDing him to prevent idle-time regen, AV still gets enough passive regen to make every second that you don't have a full ally on him hurt.

I would love to be proven wrong though. My LS doesn't exactly have an abundance of members, and an effective zombie tactic would be very nice for keeping our progress while we recover from a wipe.

[DrRuler]

Generally MND*10 is the unmodified damage of a 12 boost Chi Blast (nobody has ever cared enough to use revitalizer/COR 20min/2H to try fitting more than 12 boost in the Chi blast cycle afaik)

Assuming every Chi blast is done in the 15 second window of 12 Boosts (this doesn't always happen, due to random human error on someone's part) 800 DMG only requires 80 MND, which is easily obtainable just through the AH for most monks.

All this being said, fuck the idea of Chi Blast whoring being the secret to AV...

[Mojo]

Trying to time it so that your Chi Blasts went off like that would be foolish. DoTs fall off AV, but you can still hold it and stop it from those huge chunks of Regen with a BRD and some level one people (Hymnus, break PT, die one at a time, reraise + join PT for Hymnus.)

Also, it's certainly not the secret, but it's definitely a possible way to kill it via brute force.

[NervosaEternal]

In my experience with AV, zombie tactics are extremely difficult to pull off well. Not that it would be impossible, but he shrugs off all DoT when he puts away his spear. If you leave him on his own for (...is it 30 seconds for first tick...?) he gets back ~7k HP which is pretty painful. If you're talking about doing this with chi blast, you're talking about a very small window of opportunity each monk gets to hit AV with their full power. It only takes one mistake-- one person who forgets their place in the order or screws up their timing-- to ruin the entire attempt. To make matters worse, once he hits 79% and gets access to meteor, he can pick off any overly curious members standing too close to the person currently on zombie duty. I don't want to say it's impossible to pull off, but I really think even with a very skilled group, it's a one in a million chance.

I've thought heavily about ways to zombie AV and the conclusion I've come to is that the absolute best you can hope for is preventing his idle-time regen by throwing ~3-6 PUPs or /PUPs at him for activate deploy deactivate trick. Even with AV's regen fully sealed, even with PUPs ADDing him to prevent idle-time regen, AV still gets enough passive regen to make every second that you don't have a full ally on him hurt.

I would love to be proven wrong though. My LS doesn't exactly have an abundance of members, and an effective zombie tactic would be very nice for keeping our progress while we recover from a wipe.

I've seen meteor at 100% before

[smafdi]

Iirc he can only meteor at 100% under manafont.

[Yinnyth]

I've seen meteor at 100% before

2 possible explanations for that. First one being that he casts 5 spells during manafont with his spellbook restricted to only meteor and comet, and he can use manafont whenever he damn well pleases until you lock it. Second one being if you get him below 79% HP, meteor is added to his casual spellbook and isn't removed even if he regens all the way up to 100%.

Both explanations can be found in the OP which I strongly recommend reading because it really is quite enlightening.

[jaryk]

"Useful" is a relative term. In these 62 pages, people have tested many theories, and for anyone who is truly interested in killing AV, there have been posts with information which may prove useful to their group.

AV's 2hrs follow a color scheme similar (but not identical) to the same color scheme most other creatures use. This is useful to any group who is attempting AV without the use of a bot.

Defense down, attack down, evasion down are all capable of landing on AV. He appears to be immune to slow, paralyze, blind, elegy, etc, though there are uncomfirmed reports of slow landing on him. People have attempted to MB slow to recreate this, but even the MB slow failed to land.

One group successfully locked all 15 2hrs to see if it would weaken bracelets meteor in any way. It didn't.

There are many other examples throughout these hundreds of posts. Are you saying that this information is useless because despite all of it, we still haven't killed AV? If that's the measuring stick you're using, you'd also have to say the OP is useless, which would be just plain silly. The OP was the culmination of many hundreds of tests. The information was condensed and presented for the whole public to see. It makes these other tests seem like pig swill to you because it's 100x more concentrated than any other post here. What you need to realize is that all of that information in the OP started out similarly to what we have here- small tests (the majority of which end up failing) amidst an ocean of theorycraft, bitching, and drama.

I'm saying that aside from the OP and the exception of a handful of posts this is probably the 5th or 6th thread and no one has provided any useful theories, just bitching and drama. What we got was a fantastic gathering of all useful information to date from Virtuous Saint and then 62.. no 63 pages of the usual bullshit theories that have been disproved or ignored. The only reasonable theory was the /cheer theory, just because SE is fucked up. So why then when should the few LS's who are out there making intelligent endeavors share any more information.

[willriker]

Oh i dont know. There was some useful ideas floating around here. Proven and disproven facts about AV has been taken away from here. It is all a function of your position on things.

We had things like;
Helix burn explored
Emotes explored
other ideas for making AV ready instead of use explored
Methods of enfeebling AV explored
There have been a couple attempts at AV, which actualy *gasp* had tests done.

Of course there is bitching. Of course there is drama. There was trolling. And, there was posts which offered ideas that have already been tested, or are impossible to test. That being said, i do not think that you can deem this thread to be a waste. I would agree that we could have done without many posts. But, not the entire thread. In a world where one test is worth a thousand opinions this thread has been worth while.

[Taruking]

I'm saying that aside from the OP and the exception of a handful of posts this is probably the 5th or 6th thread and no one has provided any useful theories, just bitching and drama. What we got was a fantastic gathering of all useful information to date from Virtuous Saint and then 62.. no 63 pages of the usual bullshit theories that have been disproved or ignored. The only reasonable theory was the /cheer theory, just because SE is fucked up. So why then when should the few LS's who are out there making intelligent endeavors share any more information.

Debunking the so-called "bullshit theories" is harder than it sounds. Matching AV 2hrs has been "disproved" numerous times since SE released the video clips before it was finally confirmed to work. Many LS have given up on testing AV theories because there is no guaranteed way to confirm or dispute those theories especially when the desirable outcome is not fully understood.

[Furionstormrage]

I still wonder if straight tanking JOL at his pop point has any relevant effect on AV, has anyone tested this at all?

[willriker]

i think most who do either get charmed or oneshotted at some point. Its not easy to straight tank jol unless your in that sweet spot.

[Mojo]

The "straight tank JoL" idea is completely devoid of any sensibility...