Starting a Relic - Gungnir: Questions

[Shinryuu]

Alright thanks (sorry for the laziness). This means TPing in ACP and WSing in Zahak's is quite probably the best allround option, given you swap in enough additional ACC on WS.

[Arthars]

dont feel like making a new thread myself so i'll make use of this thread a little

is mythic polearm better than relic polearm?

just wanna know in general :O

[Chen]

both weapon give + acc assuming you're spamming drakes @ 100% tp.
relic has 9 base dmg on it, + triple procs. mythic has the nice 300% TP ws buff.

going to say relic wins in most cases, mythic probably in a zerg starting @ 300tp ~

[Shinryuu]

^That. Goes for most mythics, I presume. The more time passes after the initial 300 TP WS, the more mythics lose in comparison to relics.

If you want to keep up aftermath, you basically forego one weaponskill every 2 (you build TP 50% faster) for the sake of doing more TP damage. Not sure how well that works. Kirschy's tested Liberator, I think.

[Arthars]

my friend had conquerer and bravura

he saved 300% TP before we do ZNM T3 Gotoh Zha

first fight the NM didnt managed to benediction and died during manafont phase(he manafont at about 35%) within 3 mins......we have angon lvl 5 drg in pt

i was apoc drk, another friend relic MNK, and the conquerer dude was WAR(obviously)

i parsed like 8k damage, relic MNK did 7k and the conquerer dude did 11k which made my eyes rolled a little because before this fight, his bravura never outparsed me (yet)
other damage come from THF, drg and blms etc

i cannot believe my eyes and was thinking if the lvl 3 aftermath was that great at all and did a 2nd parse

this time, gotoh zha manafont early(at about 50%), and have time after to use benediction before he dies at about 8% so the fight lasted about 7-8 mins.

this time i parse 16k, relic mnk did 15.6k and the conquerer dude did 15.2k. because the fight lasted longer, BLM had to focus on stunning groundburst etc and didnt damage much, so we get to parse more ^^

i was still a little impressed at how conquerer can do in the long run after the advantage of the opening 300% aftermath

this makes me wonder if mythic polearm can do the same since with mythic polearm, because like conquerer KJ spamming, you will obviously spam drakesbane too and get a slightly sub par acc bonus from gungnir, and the jump augments can boost damage output too

also mythic polearm is cheaper ^^ but more hustle ._.

[Yugl]

Zahak's has ~5 ACC
Aurum has ~6 ACC
ACP has 13-14
Homam has 15

How does Zahak's have less ACC than Aurum?

On that note, it's been mentioned in previous threads that Aurum produces more damage than Zahak's for WS (Assuming Capped ACC).

[Arthars]

i believe aurum is better averages and dahak has slightly better peaks

[Chun Liroy]

Wait, why are we talking about accuracy issues again? He's a dragoon with 20 acc from relic, along with homam legs/feet, love torque and Cuch's he should have plenty enough acc to use a full haste build and askar body (acp with 10 acc and 4sTP wut...?). If you're going for relic, get the top items, seriously. Triumph Earring, hecatomb feet/hands/legs (+1) (I realize your situation for these items and that you will probably get them before your relic but i'm sure your sky ls can put you atop the line if you're going to upgrade a relic...).

Relic v. Mythic I personally am not sure about considering how retarded the only Ryunohige user is, but I would assume relic for the above reasons.

[Shinryuu]

I think Argettio isn't very good with DEX today :D Zahak's has 7.5 ACC and potentially 5% critrate more. The 2 STR is way less of a factor. Aurum offers 15 attack, which matters on every DB hit that doesn't crit, basically.

[Chun Liroy]

I'd take aurum over Zahak's any day... as Shinryuu said the 2 str is negligable, but I like the 15 attack even though it's a crit WS.

[Fiendishone]

If you really have that much gil as stated on ffxiah I no likey you.

[Shinryuu]

I think 3% crit beats 15 attack but I'd have to mathcrunch and I have to go to work like, now. Still, if the 2 extra DEX from Zahak's are the last two it's no competition. Attack is a little underrated for crit weaponskills, though, I'll agree with that (and especially on stuff you're not getting a good dDEX on).

[jimbobsonofgod]

Man if you got 156 mil would it really kill you to get another 9 for a Black Tathlum?

[MeldityofGilgamesh]

check my name in gilgamesh(obv lol) to see what kind of gear you're supposed to be wearing. to understand the concept of stp will help you the most though, so i'd suggest reading how to do that. since vfork is the same delay module as gugnir it'll be easy to figure what you need.

i know i put an item set for a 5 hit mode in drg/war but i'm on the verge of disregarding that and just sticking with the 6 hit build using claymore grip/zahak's mail. lately i felt that i get tp just as fast with /war as i was with /sam due to the immense double attack available.

however double attack has diminishing effects as you stack it, so i try to keep crit/da's evenly put to increase over all tod melee damage. the immense double attack boost from /war is enough alone to get you tp fast enough to do better than /sam. unless your getting immense haste (preferably above 60).


ps. always use marinara pizza on IT and above mobs. otherwise yellow curry bun has some weird effect of giving 85+ attack when in a party of 4 or more.

[Saxon]

(I realize your situation for these items and that you will probably get them before your relic but i'm sure your sky ls can put you atop the line if you're going to upgrade a relic...).

Brb starting on a relic but quitting on stage2 so I get items quicker.

[Chun Liroy]

Meldity, why the hell do you TP in zahak's mail, not wear any attack (4 from Black tathlum, and 11 love torque) and use Pizza over other foods with the amount of acc you have? If you're using pizza, put on a forager's, Blitz Ring, Turban and assault earring. For weaponskill, Cuch belt...? And what's the point of Claymore grip if you don't even attempt to reach cratio(I think that's the term) cap for something as simple as birds?

[MeldityofGilgamesh]

i usually just mix and match depending on the type of mob, i mostly just fight hnm's though so thats why i put what i have there currently.

i don't care to list what i wear for lesser mobs like birds(lol) as my crit rate/attack is almost nearly capped anyway. i have most of ares but it's not worth using penta thrust unless your da is through the roof and the mobs defense is so low that drakes' crits don't even matter. (/war)

im a storage whore for drg, i mostly have everything they need to wear except the ones i specified. don't take what i have in item sets the only equip i have, lol.


edit: cuch belt is better just for the fact that it has +10 attack. +10 attack isn't much but when your always getting chaos roll or minuet's(me) then that attack goes up tremendously when you get enough. like i said /sam and /war change your gear drastically depending on situation and whether or not your berserk is currently on. but on /war my priorities are evening out attack and dex/crit rate first. come to think about it i should prolly get a +5 dex ring.

use coeurl sub on weak mobs, use pizza on big mofos. a good example would be using sub during the beginning of salvage and use pizza on salvage boss. obvious i hope.

[Dathus]

One of the other reasons I said it wasn't worth the gil is because my LS also camps Sandworm when he behaves and stays in our time zone, so it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility to get one from him, sooner or later.

Also, I do apologize as seeing a few people got upset I started a new thread about the Gungnir. I did so because I was curious about the weapon itself PLUS other items attached to the owning of a relic, so I asked since this was technically still Standard in a new thread.

Still a little curious about the ACP body vs Aurum vs Ares's. From the posts I've seen, it looks like Ares's is a WS piece when ACC wouldn't really matter(zerging?), Aurum could be full-timed on like, Colibri merits, And Homam+Rose Strap+Zahak's/ACP + Zahak's would be for situations where I'd need high amounts of ACC (Mamools, maybe Einherjar?)

As for getting the last stage or currency 100s, I'm honestly not worried about that. Borrowing the last 30 from another LS and sponsoring Dynas/being picked up as a LS relic(hopefully), I'm more worried about working towards stage 3/4 truthfully.

As for the other pieces, as I stated before we need to actually go BACK to sky to get the heca hands/feet, and have Odin put out for Heca legs(we've not actively camped Kings in a while), and I am working on getting a Trumph earring for my second ear slot. And also note, I asked what I should be looking at upgrading before I even start.

@Mel: Looking at your gear sets, I've gotten slightly curious. In your DRG 6-hit build, have you really had better results with Zahak's body meleeing over something like the Askar body, or even Aurum/Ares's? And yes, looking at the haste set-up, the Wyrm mail +1 is a fair bit of a dream, but how nice would it be to have that dream?

Also, where in specifically have you seen Penta beat out Drakes? I would assume when zerging(again), and getting 2x March/Min/Mad+ Chaos, plus curry bun/attack food, and/or again Colibri with Angon, 2x Min + Chaos Roll

[MeldityofGilgamesh]

@Mel: Looking at your gear sets, I've gotten slightly curious. In your DRG 6-hit build, have you really had better results with Zahak's body meleeing over something like the Askar body, or even Aurum/Ares's? And yes, looking at the haste set-up, the Wyrm mail +1 is a fair bit of a dream, but how nice would it be to have that dream?

Also, where in specifically have you seen Penta beat out Drakes? I would assume when zerging(again), and getting 2x March/Min/Mad+ Chaos, plus curry bun/attack food, and/or again Colibri with Angon, 2x Min + Chaos Roll

the only times i've seen penta out perform drakes is whenever a drg stacks double attack/attack to the extreme and using /war and full ares. keep in mind nailing a crit on a mob only makes that hit go up 1.0 PDIF, however if your PDIF is already capped, a crit won't do more than a normal hit from penta thrust. of course you need a lot of attack buffs and appliances as well, but sometimes just a chaos roll and dia/berserk/food is enough for weaker mobs.

in terms of my zahak's mail, yes I actually have better performance just tp'ing in zahak's rather than askar as i don't need the extra stp from askar body or it's extra double attack. as i said before, double attack dimishes over time and use as you stack it more. lets say you have 10%, adding another 1% will become more like 0.5%. thats why it's good to keep crit/da balanced. HOWEVER, if your crit is already capped i'd hope you'll be using something else like ares body. but that's somewhat hard to do without the use of zahak's.

[Dathus]

the only times i've seen penta out perform drakes is whenever a drg stacks double attack/attack to the extreme and using /war and full ares. keep in mind nailing a crit on a mob only makes that hit go up 1.0 PDIF, however if your PDIF is already capped, a crit won't do more than a normal hit from penta thrust. of course you need a lot of attack buffs and appliances as well, but sometimes just a chaos roll and dia/berserk/food is enough for weaker mobs.

in terms of my zahak's mail, yes I actually have better performance just tp'ing in zahak's rather than askar as i don't need the extra stp from askar body or it's extra double attack. as i said before, double attack dimishes over time and use as you stack it more. lets say you have 10%, adding another 1% will become more like 0.5%. thats why it's good to keep crit/da balanced. HOWEVER, if your crit is already capped i'd hope you'll be using something else like ares body. but that's somewhat hard to do without the use of zahak's.

Where would you full-time Zahak's as a TP piece? Like what specific situations have YOU done it with? Makes me curious as to when I could/couldn't use it full-timed.

Also, about full Ares's set: Is it worth it? Also, what kind of results have you seen from the Cuirass in TP/WSing? I'd not really seen myself in getting one, as I said my lack of a Salvage 100% static eludes me, but I've always wondered about full Ares's. I'd wanna try and get the Flanchard for sure as they are just bad-ass overall.