Starting a Relic - Gungnir: Questions

[Limlight]

if you're really into gungir and gearing for it. Talk to Rhealana, I'll ass him into posting in this thread for you.

One of the best drg's i've seen.

[Shinryuu]

Aurum in situations where you have uncapped ACC without body
Askar in situations where you have capped ACC without body
Ares in situations where you solo

Edit: Shin, with Rose Strap, you still need 1 more sTP to reach a true 6-hit Build.

Yeah, correct. The probability of landing at least 2 hits of Drakesbane is sufficiently high to warrant using either Askar or Rose Strap + Homam, though. Again, Aurum's your guy when using Wheeling.

[Atoreis]

What i was always wondering was is Hidden 2,5x can proc on jumps? Anyone know for sure it can or cant?

[Chun Liroy]

Yes

[Malacite]

IMO, you should try for Ryunohige instead...

Arguably a lot more effort than Gugnir, but it's the better weapon by virtue of affecting your wyvern with the aftermath as well as yourself.

[Atoreis]

IMO, you should try for Ryunohige instead...

Arguably a lot more effort than Gugnir, but it's the better weapon by virtue of affecting your wyvern with the aftermath as well as yourself.

Seriously aftermath for Wyvern is last thing i would take into count if i will compare those 2 weapons.

Imo Ryu wins in merits/zerg Gungnir wins anywhere else.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Seriously aftermath for Wyvern is last thing i would take into count if i will compare those 2 weapons.

Imo Ryu wins in merits/zerg Gungnir wins anywhere else.

Ryu really doesn't belong at birds. One Feather Tickle and its out of commission for a long time.

[Malacite]

Like building 300 TP on DRG/SAM is hard. It won't kill you to hold back for the 1st couple of mobs and then kick it into high gear.

The DPS difference (according to wiki) is 1.1, not the end of the world when you consider the super crits are about a 5% proc rate? Oh and lolshock spikes. The key difference is AM3 vs the Weakens Defense & constant +20 Acc (which almost seems irrelevant in DRG's case given the 2 native traits and an A+ weapon)

[Yugl]

DRG has better options in terms of TP gear when at capped ACC early. Having said that, look at the conditions for Ryunohige to get ahead:

- Intentionally reduce damage to avoid feather tickle
- In cases where that isn't possible (And it likely won't be if you're in AMIII mode DAing most swings), you waste 1-2 WSs if you get feather tickled while saving TP. Even more so if you try to save up the TP again (4 WS Total)

[Tortalius]

well also the 300% Drakes should be > than a 100%Drakes. Not as good as 2 probably, but arguably you're not losing 2 full wses, more likely 1 1/2 depending on crit modifier.

[Yugl]

well also the 300% Drakes should be > than a 100%Drakes. Not as good as 2 probably, but arguably you're not losing 2 full wses, more likely 1 1/2 depending on crit modifier.

I highly doubt going from 100% to 300% Drakesbane is adding an entire 50% DMG. Actually I'm going to tell you it won't. That and it can actually be four WSs potentially if TP gets tickled or an RNG move the mob.

[Atoreis]

Why ppl comparing Relic and mythic on lol merit if even compere it on mamols not birds...

Gungnir probably still could win a parse in merit situacion if you be lucky on getting weak def before WSes a lot.
Gungnir probably cant win in zerg situaction when you throw Angon and start with 300% tp WS
Lol Shock Spikes? If this stun rate is as high as its said on Wiki (50%) thats a lot. In solo situaction thats can let You kill much stronger mobs if you can throw 2x cure in 1 mob round and also on mobs you can solo w/o it that gives You more time w/o healing and more time with hitting. Also tanking mnk type mobs or fast hitting mobs can be cool with that.
+20 acc can be good on jumps you can throw more att,str,vit.
If for example you will be allowed to go on some hnm as DRG and be allowed only for meditate,jumps and then wsing with TA or SA or just WS. Ryu can be better cuz of crit jump but thats in perfect math. In practise hidden can proc on jump or jump with Ryu can miss and Gungnir will outparse it.
On all mobs that like to spam def boost Gungnir will win.
Also it need to be said that Gungnir will boost dmg of whole party ally not only drg and in case of ally for example on Ein weak def alone will add more dmg overall from all melee then DRG itself and this is imo why Gungnir win for me.
Summing up:
Solo - gungnir wins cuz of weak def and shock spikes (if its realy that proc rate)
Zerg (300% tp start fight like KV for example or bahamut) - Ryu wins cuz you have angon there and also high chance for double attacks crit jump and double attack high jump (x2 both with 2hr)
HNMs - Depends what You are allowed to do but in 90% gungnir wins
Ein,Dynamis,Salvage,Nyzul,Limbus - Gungnir wins ( for me ) cuz it boost dmg from whole party,ally
Merit (only drg dmg) - I dont know, probably varies on luck with hidden proc and weak def proc before ws.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Like building 300 TP on DRG/SAM is hard. It won't kill you to hold back for the 1st couple of mobs and then kick it into high gear.

The DPS difference (according to wiki) is 1.1, not the end of the world when you consider the super crits are about a 5% proc rate? Oh and lolshock spikes. The key difference is AM3 vs the Weakens Defense & constant +20 Acc (which almost seems irrelevant in DRG's case given the 2 native traits and an A+ weapon)

Any little thing that prevents AM3 from being active 100% of the time, or causes you to sacrifice more Drakesbanes is in favor of Gungnir, and 10% hit-rate isn't even close to being irrelevant, regardless of what job you're on.

[Malacite]

I dunno, I honestly believe you're seriously underestimating the potential damage output of +45% DA on a 91 DMG polearm, not to mention the wyvern DA as well. It's not like the little guy doesn't do any noticeable damage. It also means more TP for the breath attacks.

But shit is situational.

[Yugl]

Why ppl comparing Relic and mythic on lol merit if even compere it on mamols not birds...

Merit parties was your idea. Colibris just happens to be the most likely camp.

[Nightfyre]

I dunno, I honestly believe you're seriously underestimating the potential damage output of +45% DA on a 91 DMG polearm, not to mention the wyvern DA as well. It's not like the little guy doesn't do any noticeable damage. It also means more TP for the breath attacks.

But shit is situational.

It's not so much the fact that we're ignoring the DA as it is merits were brought up which generally translates to birds. Birds have Feather Tickle, which throws an exceptionally nasty wrench into the mechanics of using a Ryunohige for maximum benefit. In addition, you're severely underplaying all the benefits of Gungnir.

+1 to weapon rank at 100 base D, random super crits 10% of the time, 20 ACC fulltime, not having to store tp for 300% WS and possibly losing DPS by getting there too late/too early, and defense down make for a very compelling argument for Gungnir.

[Atoreis]

Merit parties was your idea. Colibris just happens to be the most likely camp.

>.> Where it was my idea? I only mentioned zerg and zerg for my is pure zerg like KV, Kirin, Bahamut, DL when You start with maks buff and fight is end in short time.

EDIT: ok i see now i wrote in merit/zerg, ok i wrote this as one aspect of whole game "merit/zerg and all other" and it turned into merit only somehow. Even if You compare on merits its just stupid to compare on birds where best DD get most Tp reset and if /nin loosing time on shadows.

[Yugl]

>.> Where it was my idea? I only mentioned zerg and zerg for my is pure zerg like KV, Kirin, Bahamut, DL when You start with maks buff and fight is end in short time.

EDIT: ok i see now i wrote in merit/zerg, ok i wrote this as one aspect of whole game "merit/zerg and all other" and it turned into merit only somehow. Even if You compare on merits its just stupid to compare on birds where best DD get most Tp reset and if /nin loosing time on shadows.

1. It turned into "merits onry" because that's the only portion people are disagreeing with you about.

2. If we're talking about merit PTs, birds is your best comparison since it's where DRGs excel and is where you're most likely to end up. Furthermore, you /SAM merit mobs.

3. As for other camps, it's likely that the added ACC and subsequent 1% Haste from Blitz ring because of it will help you on tougher mobs. In addition, if for any reason you have trouble gaining the 300% TP needed to maintain the aftermath, you're advantage is gone. Flash from puks, EVAs boost move from Wyverns, Lurkers, Warm-up NINs, and other possibilities contribute to restrained TP gain.

[Gtype954]

>.> Where it was my idea? I only mentioned zerg and zerg for my is pure zerg like KV, Kirin, Bahamut, DL when You start with maks buff and fight is end in short time.

EDIT: ok i see now i wrote in merit/zerg, ok i wrote this as one aspect of whole game "merit/zerg and all other" and it turned into merit only somehow. Even if You compare on merits its just stupid to compare on birds where best DD get most Tp reset and if /nin loosing time on shadows.

Any Zerg situation where the mob dies in less then 2-3 mins the mythic weapon of each class beats its relic counterpart.
The relics win in every other situation literally.

+20 acc on a job that is probably the highest acc job in the game plus an A+ weapon rating and on top of that, a sea torque that is better then acc then PCC... is going to open up alot of gear options where you can drop acc on some gear in favor of something else like haste.

When you merit on DRG... a peircing polearm weapon which BIRDs are weak too... then you merit on birds.
-Not meriting in bird camp on a DRAGOON is just retarded and you should not even level the job because that is the place where they are the most deadly possibly in the entire game in damage.
-Mentioning Merit party and Mythic weapon in the same exact sentence is even more retarded and I do not think I need to even explain myself on that.

Gungnir wins in solo situations and you also forgetting that gungnir can use drakesbane as a weaponskill too. It will do more Damage on gungir because you can spam it at 100% TP and the weapon has more base DMG.
You can get TP twice as fast with Ryu but you aren't allowed to WS twice as fast which made the mythics fail. The longer a battle goes especially after 120 sec mark makes the mythics lose to relics by a larger and larger margin as the time passes.

Aftermath 3 is so powerful that can beat a relic weapon and no doubt it isn't underestimated, but relic wins in merit parties especially on birds by far IMO. If you hold back on DRG, then you aren't doing the damage that you can. By hold back I mean store TP to 300% for aftermath and hold back on melee damage to avoid feather tickle.

Ryu wins in jumps damage but gungnir can land a jump every once in a while that will probably do more dmg then a ryu crit jump.

Ryu obviously wins in Zergs as do all mythic weapons because you double your DoT or possibly triple. You can also spam Weaponskills every 100% since you aren't looking to renew the AM3, all your jumps will do crit hits and they reset timers with spirit surge, making this weapon sick with your 2 hour.

-Mythic weapon is only good for 1 thing,
-Zerges. lolSkygods, DL, baha V2, Einherjar with shikoku and icarus wing or a dusty wing from chest. Nyzul isle boss with wing.

The relic weapon is good for
-Merit party
-einherjar
-salvage, nyzul isle (excluding boss with dusty wing. aka the 25 min part of nyzul not the last damn 5 mins)
-Campaign battle
-soloing
-every single assault.

With this weapon as an example as well, Ryu also wins zergs because it doesn't overwrite your angon as well and angon is important on zergs. The problem is, the mythic only shines on 1 form of play style and that is for zergs only IMO and the relic is good for every single other situation in the game and they are also ok for zergs as your buddies probably killed the mob before you can hit it once due to lag.

People also forget that the relic weapon can actually change what gear you equip as well due to its +20 ACC.
Thats like saying a brown belt mnk is as good as a black belt because they can equip imperial ring in assaults with a mar's ring and have the same haste
When a Blk belt can equip a mars's ring and Storm ring and have the same haste.
The Gungnir gives your gear more options and possibly even your food choices.

[ringthree]

IMO, you should try for Ryunohige instead...

Arguably a lot more effort than Gugnir, but it's the better weapon by virtue of affecting your wyvern with the aftermath as well as yourself.

I have to disagree here. I do a lot of events with a Gungnir DRG and it hits like a ton of bricks, I can imagine very little that could compete with the damage output of one.