HQ Crafting: Revisited 2009

[barber2006]

[QUOTE=Liminality;3051861]All rights to this information go to Eruntalon of Alla /QUOTE]


Stopped reading there. The guy claimed a 100% HQ rate on items when he 'waited for the right conditions'. Was later exposed through admins, screenshots, lack of evidence, (not to mention refusing to do it in front of anybody at all), etc as a complete fraud. yeah, he compiled some info at the beginning that was useful, but for all practical purposes he was quizatsa 3 years before quiz. Superstitions like direction have never ever ever been supported by any credible evidence whatsoever.

And no, 'everything' does not revolve around the crystals. Facing the blue star doesn't give you a bonus to HQ just like facing the blue star doesn't give you a bonus on your Blizzard IV. Breeze rings don't reduce the damage you take from wind spells just because they are made with a wind bead. Elegy doesn't miss on merit mobs just because you happen to be facing 'the crystal strong to earth'. Zaldon doesn't hand out ebisu items at a rate of 1/10 on watersday. Provoke is not more powerful on lightsday just because Pld af has CHR on it. etc etc etc

[Baelorn]

My stance on this will always be the same: If it doesn't help it doesn't hurt. It's not even worth testing at this stage in the game because anyone who finds conclusive info that helps/hurts HQ rates would be better off keeping it to themselves.

[Liminality]

Yes, I believe all three posters to be correct.

1) HQ rates are, in a sense, completely /random as they are decided, what we believe, in a "die roll".

2) If indeed it is completely impossible to push this % into our favor, some people will still prefer to synth maybe on a certain day, moon phase, direction, equipment, certain job, etc.

3) Synthin' could have been different in 2004, and in 2006, and even now. We don't know wtf SE does half the time.

The way I look at it, since I'm of the superstitious sort, is if I find something interesting... it really wouldn't hurt or help me to try it, especially since most don't believe it. I'll take those extra 2-3 seconds out of my day to turn to face a certain direction, just because.



My personal superstitions: (This is all just personal speculation/beliefs. Just take it for what it's worth to you. None of these are in no way confirmed, or backed by any fact what-so-ever.)

New Moon and Full Moon -
I really don't believe that either is completely good or completely bad. When it comes to HQ, I look @ it like this...

New Moon - Best for HQ on "Light-based crystals". Since we can associate New Moon to Dark, this makes since to me. Therefore, you're best HQ's on a New Moon would be Thunder, Wind, and Fire crystals. We have all known that Odin and Alexander are not opposite of each other, so a "Light in the North" and "Dark in the South" compass makes no sense. On the accepted compass, Alexander is in the Northeast, meaning all of the NW, SW, NE, and NW components of the compass are considered "light-based crystals". Also, I understand that "Desynth" can be very different from normal results, so this may/may not be a very good success rate. This is all just speculation.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/ff...tellar_map.png

*Full Moon - Best for HQ on "Dark-based crystals". We can associate Full Moon to Light. Therefore, your best HQ's would be with Earth, Water, and Ice. On the accepted compass, Odin is in the North, meaning all of the , S, E, and W components of the compass are considered "dark-based crystals".

*If you go to the Amazing Crafts 4 post, Zouri (sp?) synth'd a Cerberus Mantle +1, Dusk Gloves +1, and Blessed Pumps +1 all in the span of 1 hour. This is one game day in Vana'diel and it was done on Darksday, Full Moon. Now if you go and look up these synths, it's x2 Earth Crystal and x1 Ice Crystal... these are "dark-based crystals", which from my own superstition, gave her the best possible HQ chances, and those were practically T0/T1 synths. Again, this is all just personal speculation.

Directions for Synthing -
I honestly don't really know what to believe here. I find that sometimes it helps, other times... not so much. I will still take the time to turn to face a certain direction that the crystal may be weak to, just for personal reasons.

However, relating direction back to the moon phase, they sort of tie in together for me. You'll notice if you are using a "Light-based Crystal" the direction you're supposed to believe to face is a "Dark-based direction".

Ex: Wind Crystal is Light-based. To HQ, you face Shiva (East), which is dark-based.
Ice Crystal is Dark-based. To HQ, you face Ifrit (Northwest), which is light-based.

Again, just another superstition I have. However, I believe the Moon Phases/Day, for me, hold more merit than the actual direction you decide to synth on.

Vana'diel Day -
Pretty self-explanatory of what most people believe here. If you want to try and HQ, do it on Darksday or "the day the crystal you are using is weak to", which just so happens the day the crystal is believed to be weak to is always the opposite element of the crystal. Not much to be said here.




Again, take this AS IS and has no data to support it. That's just how I see crafting and how it kind of all ties into together for me. Point being it's like reading something, then flaming it without any facts, either. We all know we've read the Wiki on crafting @ one time or another and tried some of the stupid shit in there just to see if it works. Until results are actually shown to either disprove/confirm any said myths, we will never know. However, if they were to be disproven, then by all means synth when you want to. But, if some of these were to be proven, I'd rather have already been doing them than not. Just my two cents.

As stated earlier, there are some even weirder quirks and practices out there, but I won't get into those

[Pirian]

Where the fuck did sath go

[Liminality]

Where the fuck did sath go

Way to contribute nothing of interest to the topic, as per usual of a BG "Post+1".

Cause obviously a BG post back from 2005 still has merit here *sarcasm*

[Eanae]

Where the fuck did sath go

+1. SHINE THE SATH SIGNAL.

[nitsuj]

I will say that the fact that the apron's have elemental resist on them has always had my interest...

But then again, the alchemy club has "resist paralyze" or something, doesn't it? Not sure how that increases crafting ability..

(inb4 you can't craft while paralyzed!)

My original argument was that HQ staves don't affect crafting because it wouldn't be fair to level 1 crafting accounts, and that's why the the +1 items from the guild are level 1.

But then we have hocho katana....

So if the staves ended up affecting HQ rate somehow, I wouldn't really be all that shocked.

[BerenTebogo]

Way to contribute nothing of interest to the topic, as per usual of a BG "Post+1".

Cause obviously a BG post back from 2005 still has merit here *sarcasm*

No it was more of a call for me to come in here and clean this shit up. I apologize to everyone that I missed this thread for so long.

OP you are wrong, have no understanding of statistics or the application of a random number generator, let alone one that operates within specified boundaries (i.e. tiers)

You are wrong in every way and are spouting the FFXI equivalent of reading palms. Stop. The astrological chart exists for the same reasons that GMs greet me with "Hello brave warrior Valkyris!" it's a fantasy game, an extensive one at that. The more you craft the more you will HQ and the more you will break.

Stop this, seriously, I'm so sick of cleaning up this shit every 3-4 months because somebody linked BG to KI or Alla, or some 16 year old leveled a craft to 100 and thinks they discovered something that physicists, engineers, computer programmers, and people with common sense have all missed.

Go do 10,000 synths and document every single one. Including material synths. Come back here with that data and we'll listen to you. Everything you've posted is neon-colored bullshit and should be banworthy, if not arson-worthy. Math isn't voodoo, math is math. Learn more, it helps.

[Eanae]

[Liminality]

No it was more of a call for me to come in here and clean this shit up. I apologize to everyone that I missed this thread for so long.

OP you are wrong, have no understanding of statistics or the application of a random number generator, let alone one that operates within specified boundaries (i.e. tiers)

You are wrong in every way and are spouting the FFXI equivalent of reading palms. Stop. The astrological chart exists for the same reasons that GMs greet me with "Hello brave warrior Valkyris!" it's a fantasy game, an extensive one at that. The more you craft the more you will HQ and the more you will break.

Stop this, seriously, I'm so sick of cleaning up this shit every 3-4 months because somebody linked BG to KI or Alla, or some 16 year old leveled a craft to 100 and thinks they discovered something that physicists, engineers, computer programmers, and people with common sense have all missed.

Go do 10,000 synths and document every single one. Including material synths. Come back here with that data and we'll listen to you. Everything you've posted is neon-colored bullshit and should be banworthy, if not arson-worthy. Math isn't voodoo, math is math. Learn more, it helps.

Then show me the math that disproves said theories and were these supposed engineers and mathematicians have said this information is inconclusive.

Point is you cannot expect one person to tackle said thing alone. Things will be leveled towards biases, uncontrolled variables, and time management.

Also, this is a discussion about said theories. Obviously if it was already proved completely false, I believe some "asshole" *cough* would have taken the time to edit it and post said sources. Without bouncing ideas off of others, it would be stupid to accept everything @ face value.

As I respect your opinion, I believe I'll disregard it as having anything to contribute other than your own personal opinions upon mine, which you can choose to take with a grain of salt.

/end Sath discussion

I will say that the fact that the apron's have elemental resist on them has always had my interest...

But then again, the alchemy club has "resist paralyze" or something, doesn't it? Not sure how that increases crafting ability..

(inb4 you can't craft while paralyzed!)

My original argument was that HQ staves don't affect crafting because it wouldn't be fair to level 1 crafting accounts, and that's why the the +1 items from the guild are level 1.

But then we have hocho katana....

So if the staves ended up affecting HQ rate somehow, I wouldn't really be all that shocked.

Yea. That has puzzled me for awhile, as well. That's true to SE style, though. You know how they may add like +VIT to BLM AF2 gear? I think they probably just said, "Let's throw a resist paralyze on the Alchemy Club!"... literally, lol

[BerenTebogo]

The math has been posted 1,000 times over the past few years. I'm so fucking sorry you're too new to crafting to have read it, and more importantly can't operate a fucking search function.

Seriously, I was polite. Get the fuck out. You're wrong. You want research from other people? Look it the fuck up.

Everyone has an opinion, yours just happens to be wrong. So sorry.

[barber2006]

ok....I'll throw this out there. The cooking link you provided that you found 'very informative' had gems like this in it:


This method enabled me to produce 1-2.5 stacks of HQ pie per 12 synths. This is HQing about half the time on a level 90 recipe under my ideal conditions.

Take it or leave it - that was my findings after years of mass production.


There you go.....a 50% hq rate over time on a T1. I'm totally sure this is true and we should all be mocked for not looking at posts like this more seriously.......

[Liminality]

ok....I'll throw this out there. The cooking link you provided that you found 'very informative' had gems like this in it:


This method enabled me to produce 1-2.5 stacks of HQ pie per 12 synths. This is HQing about half the time on a level 90 recipe under my ideal conditions.

Take it or leave it - that was my findings after years of mass production.


There you go.....a 50% hq rate over time on a T1. I'm totally sure this is true and we should all be mocked for not looking at posts like this more seriously.......

Lol, I understand that. It's like how you can't believe everything you read/see on TV. Just cause someone says something, doesn't mean it's true.

It's the same outlook here. I'm just tossing around ideas. None of it is fact.

When people don't believe in these ideas, that is also just that... an idea. NO ONE had has any proof that either case is true or false. If they do, then obviously they haven't shared it for personal gain. I'm not suggesting conspiracy theories here, either.

My point is that if this was diproven/proven "1000's of times" like has been stated... then I wouldn't be searching through old message boards, articles, livejournals, etc... to try and find the information I'm looking for.

If someone had posted something truly groundbreaking, it would have been common knowledge a long time ago.

HQ crafting conditions, an idea. HQ crafting being completely /random, an idea. People doing wtf ever they choose to do when they craft in hopes it will increase/decrease what they want, an idea.

Absolutely nothing about crafting is proven fact other than your skill level and the materials you need to do a synth.

[BerenTebogo]

Tiers are proven, the %s aren't 100% but they're a theory on the same level that relativity is a theory.

Again, so sorry that you're oblivious. Ignorance, however, is not an excuse for carrying on with this shit. Just because you don't like something, or the idiots on whatever forums you came from can't understand the math and don't want to believe in tiers doesn't make them not true.

The 3 / 10 / 25 / 33 has been revised to be about 1-2 / 7-8 / 15-20 / 25ish and is widely accepted among the community as a whole. If you don't like the burden is on YOU to offer proof and tests - not say "this is what I imagined it could be! Prove me wrong!"

Your idiocy makes me angry.

[Liminality]

Tiers are proven, the %s aren't 100% but they're a theory on the same level that relativity is a theory.

Again, so sorry that you're oblivious. Ignorance, however, is not an excuse for carrying on with this shit. Just because you don't like something, or the idiots on whatever forums you came from can't understand the math and don't want to believe in tiers doesn't make them true.

The 3 / 10 / 25 / 33 has been revised to be about 1-2 / 7-8 / 15-20 / 25ish and is widely accepted among the community as a whole. If you don't like the burden is on YOU to offer proof and tests - not say "this is what I imagined it could be! Prove me wrong!"

Your idiocy makes me angry.

Where in any of my posts have I tried to debunk the acceptance of Tiers for crafting?

I thought so.

[isladar]

This will end in tears.

[BerenTebogo]

Lol, I understand that. It's like how you can't believe everything you read/see on TV. Just cause someone says something, doesn't mean it's true.

It's the same outlook here. I'm just tossing around ideas. None of it is fact.

When people don't believe in these ideas, that is also just that... an idea. NO ONE had has any proof that either case is true or false. If they do, then obviously they haven't shared it for personal gain. I'm not suggesting conspiracy theories here, either.

My point is that if this was diproven/proven "1000's of times" like has been stated... then I wouldn't be searching through old message boards, articles, livejournals, etc... to try and find the information I'm looking for.

If someone had posted something truly groundbreaking, it would have been common knowledge a long time ago.

HQ crafting conditions, an idea. HQ crafting being completely /random, an idea. People doing wtf ever they choose to do when they craft in hopes it will increase/decrease what they want, an idea.

Absolutely nothing about crafting is proven fact other than your skill level and the materials you need to do a synth.

Abuhhhhh?

Get. Out.

[Liminality]

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

HQ crafting conditions, I was trying to refer to said theories that you called buttkiss.

HQ crafting being completely /random, as in you can craft on the same day/moon phase and get completely different numbers in every trial.

I was not trying to make Tier synthing inconclusive. I know it is widely accepted where the Tier cut-offs are and what percentages have been rounded to give a better idea/understanding of what you MAY HQ more easily.

Stop trying to pick fights in the dark.

[BerenTebogo]

I think you misinterpreted what I was trying to say.

HQ crafting conditions, I was trying to refer to said theories that you called buttkiss.

HQ crafting being completely /random, as in you can craft on the same day/moon phase and get completely different numbers in every trial.

I was not trying to make Tier synthing inconclusive. I know it is widely accepted where the Tier cut-offs are and what percentages have been rounded to give a better idea/understanding of what you MAY HQ more easily.

Stop trying to pick fights in the dark.

I'm not picking fights in the dark. I'm having the same argument I've had easily 25 times before in this exact forum with the exact mindset you have right now with the exact same people looking on with bags of popcorn waiting for me to explode.

The bottom line is, and I'll bold this for you, you do not get to propose a new crafting theory based on shitty allusions to other shitty theories that use shitty math to produce a shitty result. NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING you have to say means anything unless you, yourself, come here with at least SOMETHING resembling a sample size.

We're all equally tired of "blah blah blah TRY THIS FOR ME!" If Sonomaa knew more about crafting besides the fact that it uses crystals, it would be a bannable offense.

Don't perpetuate shitty information that this community, as a whole, has been working tirelessly to weed out and erase for years unless it comes with solid data. That's the bottom line. There is no argument, there is no "WELL I NEED HELP!" Start documenting and come back in 6 months or admit that you have absolutely no scientific or mathematic basis and while it's still possible. The end.

[Liminality]

I'm not picking fights in the dark. I'm having the same argument I've had easily 25 times before in this exact forum with the exact mindset you have right now with the exact same people looking on with bags of popcorn waiting for me to explode.

The bottom line is, and I'll bold this for you, you do not get to propose a new crafting theory based on shitty allusions to other shitty theories that use shitty math to produce a shitty result. NOTHING, NOTHING, NOTHING you have to say means anything unless you, yourself, come here with at least SOMETHING resembling a sample size.

We're all equally tired of "blah blah blah TRY THIS FOR ME!" If Sonomaa knew more about crafting besides the fact that it uses crystals, it would be a bannable offense.

Don't perpetuate shitty information that this community, as a whole, has been working tirelessly to weed out and erase for years unless it comes with solid data. That's the bottom line. There is no argument, there is no "WELL I NEED HELP!" Start documenting and come back in 6 months or admit that you have absolutely no scientific or mathematic basis and while it's still possible. The end.

I have no idea what this is. I stopped reading after you considered yourself a sideshow attraction.

Anyways, I'll continue to bounce ideas on and off about it and I'll post my experience with HQ on New Moon tomorrow. It is in no way a sample size, mostly for sharing personal experience/beliefs.

It's up to the reader whether they want/wish to try said methods themselves and experiments, read and go on about their synthing, or post something they believe helps in certain situations.

I didn't realize there would be so much butthurt over what other people wish to do, and what some people consider as fact.