Capitalism: a Love Story

[Sirrus_Asura]

Uhh.. just look at the entire cyclical history of the market. No better example than that.

So the market goes up and down. Nothing is a constant in life. What do you suggest as a solution or a better means of exchange.

[Olo401]

So the market goes up and down. Nothing is a constant in life. What do you suggest as a solution or a better means of exchange.

Not just up and down, destroy and recreate.

And where did I ever suggest that I was looking for a different method? I was citing the base definitions of capitalism for fuck's sake!

Are you REALLY that hard to create a fight out of nothing?

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Maybe it's semantics but it's destroy and reallocate to more productive sectors.

[Rhinox]

fuck charlton heston.

we finally got that damn rifle out of his hands.

I lol'd

Moore uses exageration and some times hyperbole to make his point clear. If you're smart enough to understand his underlining point it's that ultimately greed isn't good as the capitalist pig and Gordon gekko would have you believe.

[Sirrus_Asura]

Not just up and down, destroy and recreate.

And where did I ever suggest that I was looking for a different method? I was citing the base definitions of capitalism for fuck's sake!

Are you REALLY that hard to create a fight out of nothing?

Relax kid. I was asking a question. You seemed to have this issue with Capitalism, I asked for your suggestion to fix it. Stop crying so much.

[Olo401]

Relax kid. I was asking a question. You seemed to have this issue with Capitalism, I asked for your suggestion to fix it. Stop crying so much.

No, I have an issue with you twisting my words into something they don't even say. Which is something you do quite often to everyone here, and it makes you look like an asshole.

And thanks for calling me a kid. Makes me feel 20 years younger.

[Sirrus_Asura]

"Death" of Capitalism is a misnomer. Capitalism, by nature and definition, is a chaotic and destructive economic force. That's the unfortunate price that is paid to have a free market.

I'm so sorry I read this as "I have a beef with Capitalism". Chill the fuck out.

[Suited Aces]

meh, I think I'll just wait and buy the DVD at a market competitive price from a national department store chain. Shop around a bit and look for a deal, maybe wait for a sale or use a coupon.

[Dimmauk]

So you are saying Moore is capitalizing on Capitalism? I'll just DL that shit for free. LOL

[wipers]

Of course he is. He wants to make money and be a capitalist while bitching about capitalism.

[Olo401]

Of course he is. He wants to make money and be a capitalist while bitching about capitalism.

...but that's not Moore's point with this latest film. His goal is to highlight those who are gaming the capitalist system.

Similarly his goal with Sicko was to highlight the problems with the health care system and those who were abusing others for financial gain. Or his goal with BFC was to highlight those using the defense industry and gun rights to justify profiteering from murder and war.

I may not agree with his methods in some instances and think he's a shady fucker, but I do agree with the actual messages. We need changes to prevent profiteering off the sick & dying. We need regulations in place to prevent companies from stealing both from their investors and from the taxpayers. We need federally-mandated checks in place to prevent criminals from obtaining assault weapons from gun show dealers, and to prevent war profiteering by large companies. What is not needed is a fabricated reason to support any of these measures.

[Darus Grey]

I have a beef with capitalism! argue with me! I wrote my political science thesis on how capitalism is a failed system.

Hell I'll boil it down to a simple parable.

The fundamental basic flaw of capitalism is that there is no amount of regulation that can keep it from becoming corrupted.

Capitalism follows the simple truth of the golden rule "He who has the gold, makes the rules". In a capitalist system, money is analog to power, and those with power, will do anything in their means to keep power. Which is why *every* capitalist system ever implemented sees a slow erosional effect as money continues to conglomerate in the hands of those who already have it, well the middle class continually shrinks.

This is why Marx theorized that the next stage of capitalism was socialism, because the only way to combat this erosion was to redistribute wealth. Unfortunately this principle is often at conflicts with revolutionary theory in that it is always those who have wealth who facilitate revolution. So the only time a system is changed, is by people who have an incentive to maintain and increase their power-base, which is always at odds with those who fought for the change.

This is why we've yet to see either a true socialist or communist state(yes, there has yet to be a single one, the ones we've had are in name only, they don't function like social or communal states). Because those who facilitate the revolution, are naturally inclined to betray those who fought for it.

Capitalism has no benefits for *society*, it is simply a meat-grinder that kills those unlucky enough to be at the bottom, notice I didn't say stupid, or unskilled, it's just LUCK, social mobility is partially a myth, the only people who break these cycles are the ones that are so exceptional at human manipulation that they can't help but succeed at life. Which gives the stark illusion of mobility, in reality the "Work hard and you'll succeed" mantra of America is nothing but Hyperbole, as it's clear to see those who actually work the hardest, are statistically the lowest earners.

[Sirrus_Asura]

So you are saying Moore is capitalizing on Capitalism? I'll just DL that shit for free. LOL

http://www.claustrumradio.com/Hannadick.jpg
You're a great American, my friend.

[Sirrus_Asura]

I have a beef with capitalism! argue with me! I wrote my political science thesis on how capitalism is a failed system.

Hell I'll boil it down to a simple parable.

The fundamental basic flaw of capitalism is that there is no amount of regulation that can keep it from becoming corrupted.

Capitalism follows the simple truth of the golden rule "He who has the gold, makes the rules". In a capitalist system, money is analog to power, and those with power, will do anything in their means to keep power. Which is why *every* capitalist system ever implemented sees a slow erosional effect as money continues to conglomerate in the hands of those who already have it, well the middle class continually shrinks.

This is why Marx theorized that the next stage of capitalism was socialism, because the only way to combat this erosion was to redistribute wealth. Unfortunately this principle is often at conflicts with revolutionary theory in that it is always those who have wealth who facilitate revolution. So the only time a system is changed, is by people who have an incentive to maintain and increase their power-base, which is always at odds with those who fought for the change.

This is why we've yet to see either a true socialist or communist state(yes, there has yet to be a single one, the ones we've had are in name only, they don't function like social or communal states). Because those who facilitate the revolution, are naturally inclined to betray those who fought for it.

Capitalism has no benefits for *society*, it is simply a meat-grinder that kills those unlucky enough to be at the bottom, notice I didn't say stupid, or unskilled, it's just LUCK, social mobility is partially a myth, the only people who break these cycles are the ones that are so exceptional at human manipulation that they can't help but succeed at life. Which gives the stark illusion of mobility, in reality the "Work hard and you'll succeed" mantra of America is nothing but Hyperbole, as it's clear to see those who actually work the hardest, are statistically the lowest earners.

Well, since you say no "True Socialist State" has been created. Care to define what exactly that is? I'm really interested now.

[Correction]

So you are saying Moore is capitalizing on Capitalism? I'll just DL that shit for free. LOL

Didn't he publicly not give a fuck when his last movie was being torrented before release?

[Dimmauk]

Didn't he publicly not give a fuck when his last movie was being torrented before release?

I don't agree with copyright laws and I don't have a problem with people downloading the movie and sharing it...as long as they're not trying to make a profit off my labor...

That is cool. I guess he understands that paid or free, anytime people watch his message, its a win for him.

[Sirrus_Asura]

Didn't he publicly not give a fuck when his last movie was being torrented before release?

That's nice and all, but if he's against capitalism so much, would you not expect him to put his balls on the line and just offer it for free period?

That just screams "I'm against capitalism when its convenient for me" In my eyes.

[Kuya]

He is an excellent troll and i love him for that. And i seem to recall that i used to hear how horrible and untrue his Sicko movie was, and now recently i hear that there was an actual campaign to discredit him, so i think i'll give this movie a chance.

Darus, may i see your thesis?

[Correction]

That's nice and all, but if he's against capitalism so much, would you not expect him to put his balls on the line and just offer it for free period?

That just screams "I'm against capitalism when its convenient for me" In my eyes.

To me it screams "I need funding in order to make more movies, so I'm not about to completely screw over the studio/investors/publishers who paid for most of what was spent to make this last movie."

Michael Moore is in the business of staying famous. I'm not condemning him for anything but the fact that I'm done learning stuff from him. If he wants to sell his movie but doesn't care if folks get it for free I don't really see a glaring contradiction there.

[Sirrus_Asura]

To me it screams "I need funding in order to make more movies, so I'm not about to completely screw over the studio/investors/publishers who paid for most of what was spent to make this last movie."

Michael Moore is in the business of staying famous. I'm not condemning him for anything but the fact that I'm done learning stuff from him. If he wants to sell his movie but doesn't care if folks get it for free I don't really see a glaring contradiction there.

Donations? If this guy speaks that much wisdom, I'm sure he'd do just fine with contributions. Regardless, I think he'd be a much bolder figure in that regard.