Certified COPY of Obama Kenyan Birth Certificate

[Zosi]

Bad habit to double post, etc etc etc, but this deserves its own post so you might actually read it.

I'm going to use my CoLB as an example, because... well, it's right in front of me, and I know it's valid. Here's what it says right above the doctor's signature:

"I certify that the stated information concerning this child is true to the best of my knowledge and belief."

To the right of that, it has a date of signing (my birthday, what a coincidence!) and a checkbox to choose whether the signer is either type of doctor (M.D. or D.O.), a midwife/nurse or "Other". In other words, a doctor's signature isn't required, it's simply the signature of someone who was there at the birth. This is a basic part of a birth certificate, it's not a valid birth certificate AT ALL without that signature. It has nothing to do with whether it's a certified copy or not, because it's on both certified and uncertified copies.

Outside of the actual birth certificate form, down by the raised seals, there's a second signature, the signature of the register of deeds. This one says:

"I certify that this document contains a true and correct reproduction of facts on file with the Wisconsin Vital Records Office."

That's the signature that makes it a certified copy. That's the signature that is missing on uncertified copies, because a copy can't be certified unless it's on the special paper with the raised seal - otherwise any moron could make a fake "certified copy" with 10 minutes in Photoshop.

[Lee]

I am 100% sure after his frustration and complaining "But it's certified! Look here!", she responded "It is CERTIFIED yes, but it ALSO requires a raised seal." Then she handed him that pdf I linked and pointed to that very line. Now tell me, that line doesn't just say certified does it? It adds the raised seal on purpose, because a certification does not require a raised seal. I believe you are the one who is ignorant.

The only thing that I could do at this point is to trust her word, or to trust yours. I think I'll go with the former for now unless you start showing me some type of substance.

[Plow]

**Edit - DAMN, BEATEN! ; ;

From the Constitution, Article 2 Clause 5:

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States. "

What that means is you have to be born in US territory (or be a citizen when the Constitution was ratified), be over 35 years old, AND have been a resident for at least 14 years. The first batch of Presidents (up to Martin Van Buren) were all born as British subjects, and a couple after him were too (William Henry Harrison, for instance, who was old as fuck when he was elected.)

McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, which, at the time, was considered US property, so he is eligible. The birthers argue (rather stupidly, if you ask me) that Obama was born in Kenya, and have constantly been proven wrong.

You're a tiny bit off here.

Natural born citizen means *EITHER* you were born on U.S. soil to persons who were here legally, *OR* you were born to parents who were both citizens.

I.E., since Obama's mother was in the U.S. legally when he was born to her, even if her and his dad were both Kenyan citizens, he could still be a "natural born citizen" of the U.S., as long as that's what the parents decided to register him as.

If he had been born in Kenya, but both parents were U.S. citizens (and not dual citizens, I think is also required), he would still be able to be a "natural born" U.S. citizen.

Since his dad was a Kenyan citizen, if he had actually been born there, he would not be able to be a natural born U.S. citizen.

Essentially, if you're not born here to parents that are here legally (hell it can be on vacation), or to parents that are both solely citizens of the U.S. anywhere in the world, then you have to be naturalized and are not eligible for the presidency.



McCain would be fine even if the canal wasn't U.S. property at the time, because both his parents were citizens. He was born on a military base as well, and they were the primary reason for that allowance in the first place.


As far as the original founders and the presidency, Washington for example was born in what's now known as West Virginia, which was under British control at the time. To put it quite simply, nobody could be a natural born citizen of the U.S. and meet the 35 years old requirement until 35 years after the constitution was established as law, so they had to make exceptions at the very least until then, and obviously the exceptions carried on a bit longer than that. The first natural born president was John Tyler, a few days after he turned 51.

[Zosi]

I am 100% sure after his frustration and complaining "But it's certified! Look here!", she responded "It is CERTIFIED yes, but it ALSO requires a raised seal." Then she handed him that pdf I linked and pointed to that very line. Now tell me, that line doesn't just say certified does it? It adds the raised seal on purpose, because a certification does not require a raised seal. I believe you are the one who is ignorant.

The only thing that I could do at this point is to trust her word, or to trust yours. I think I'll go with the former for now unless you start showing me some type of substance.

Read the post I just posted regarding doctor's certification and government certification. There's a difference - even uncertified copies have "a certification", and that's what the idiot was pointing to. It's just the wrong certification. The clerk can't deny that there's a certification, but it's also not the right one - a better choice of words would've been "I'm sorry, but we need a copy certified by the state and printed on paper with a raised seal", but given how you claim he was uncooperative, I can't really blame her for shortening it up just to get him out of the office to hunt down the right document.

Regarding the PDF, you're reading what you want to read, not what's written. That little bit about the raised seal is what's called an "explanatory clause". It's a phrase that clarifies another part of the sentence, usually the one immediately preceeding it. It might make more sense if you use parenthesis instead, because that's how explanatory clauses are more commonly rendered nowadays:

a certified copy of the birth certificate (with the raised
seal of the local governmental agency) is required.

It's clarifying that "certified copy" refers to a copy with the raised seal of the local government agency - which is precisely the opposite of what you are arguing. You should be much more careful about what you quote.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Yes, they should. And they should both be punished equally, by being removed from office.

Edit:



Bush's support was only for political reasons. If it's OK for Senators to pander for votes, why isn't it OK for a President?

Pander =/ fear-mongering and threats, really poh? I give you a little more credit than that, I mean it's an internet argument so you have to front until you win but, ....really? I mean.... really?

[Lee]

Read the post I just posted regarding doctor's certification and government certification. There's a difference - even uncertified copies have "a certification", and that's what the idiot was pointing to. It's just the wrong certification. The clerk can't deny that there's a certification, but it's also not the right one - a better choice of words would've been "I'm sorry, but we need a copy certified by the state and printed on paper with a raised seal", but given how you claim he was uncooperative, I can't really blame her for shortening it up just to get him out of the office to hunt down the right document.

Regarding the PDF, you're reading what you want to read, not what's written. That little bit about the raised seal is what's called an "explanatory clause". It's a phrase that clarifies another part of the sentence, usually the one immediately preceeding it. It might make more sense if you use parenthesis instead, because that's how explanatory clauses are more commonly rendered nowadays:



It's clarifying that "certified copy" refers to a copy with the raised seal of the local government agency - which is precisely the opposite of what you are arguing. You should be much more careful about what you quote.

Alright, I see now. Thank you for clarifying without insulting me outright this time.

[Ivve]

How to Apply In Person

*A certified birth certificate has a registrar's raised, embossed, impressed or multicolored seal, registrar's signature, and the date the certificate was filed with the registrar's office, which must be within 1 year of your birth. Please note, some short (abstract) versions of birth certificates may not be acceptable for passport purposes.

Spoilers: the bitch you talked to very likely used incorrect terminology, didn't know her shit, failed to properly explain, etc. Anything that lacks a raised seal or watermark and signature together is simply invalid for everything from getting a passport to applying for a driver's license to applying for a marriage certificate or name change. Trust me; I've done all of those things within the past 3 years and had to make a special trip to get a proper certified copy.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

How to Apply In Person



Spoilers: the bitch you talked to very likely used incorrect terminology, didn't know her shit, failed to properly explain, etc. Anything that lacks a raised seal or watermark and signature together is simply invalid for everything from getting a passport to applying for a driver's license to applying for a marriage certificate or name change. Trust me; I've done all of those things within the past 3 years and had to make a special trip to get a proper certified copy.

ohshi- angrybitch woke up japan is fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu-

[Ivve]

huhwut

Just saying, it's got to have all those things happening at once to have the right amount of certificationness going for it. NO HALFSIES

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

huhwut

Just saying, it's got to have all those things happening at once to have the right amount of certificationness going for it. NO HALFSIES

oh you know just see you in GD and I had to cruise down the avenue for some grade A http://eatourbrains.com/EoB/wp-conte...7/05/troll.jpgin'

[Ivve]

That was not grade A bb, even I know I'm a giant raging cunt. Trying to have my title changed, but to no avail. I can't believe some of those comments on this FO' REAL CERTIFRIED CERTIFIKATE. Makes me ashamed to be military affiliated. If it makes you all feel better or restores some faith in humanity, everyone I know on base thinks this shit is utterly ridiculous.

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

That was not grade A bb, even I know I'm a giant raging cunt. Trying to have my title changed, but to no avail. I can't believe some of those comments on this FO' REAL CERTIFRIED CERTIFIKATE. Makes me ashamed to be military affiliated. If it makes you all feel better or restores some faith in humanity, everyone I know on base thinks this shit is utterly ridiculous.

I had some clever quip to return with then You Are Not Alone came on on iTunes and it fucked my shit up my soul is melting nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Leif]

There is nothing less "actual" about a Certificate of Live Birth. It's not a "piece of paper that says that the certificate exists", it is primary proof, considered legal certification that the person named was born in the state of Hawaii. There is no "higher" or "more actual" proof, or a need for any - a CoLB suffices for any purpose including running for President.

Great, fine, amazing, wonderful. As I said, it's enough for me. Apparently, it's not enough for the "birthers", so deal with it. Don't attack me for what some crazy people think. Why, though, would the left claim to hate these "birthers" yet still allow them to exist and allow their rumors to continue?

Oh, I know!

They enjoy a nice relationship with GOP incumbents because it's automatic votes for republican causes. It's not full-on endorsement because they're terrified of the blowback, not because they don't see it as a convenient relationship.

In the same way that liberals have bought off the black vote, most of the hispanic vote, the jew vote, the gay vote, the illegal vote, the stoners (they didn't have to pay much for that one), and the teacher union vote? At least the few conservatives that let these people whine in peace don't get the birther cause codified into law

did you not look at my post or are you just deciding to ignore it to look like an idiot?

Which post? The ones about the "birthers" and the Ku Klux Klan or the one posting Obama's certificate of live birth which you seem to think is synonymous with a birth certificate?

So, I guess, you were the one who ended up looking like an idiot. I always had my doubts about you (I mean, you did hang around with that "I'm a girl" BoA-obsessed freak Trainwreck who turned out to really be a man back in the day - he/she had some really great things to say about you. Of course, this says nothing about you in the same way Obama's association with Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, Henry Louis Gates, Van Jones, and the rest of his "friends" makes him a middle-of-the-road moderate), but now I'm convinced.

[Ivve]

Your soul melting as you respond to this topic seems appropriate.

[Ivve]

(I mean, you did hang around with that "I'm a girl" BoA-obsessed freak Trainwreck who turned out to really be a man back in the day - he/she had some really great things to say about you)

BOMBS: DROPPED

Feel free to elaborate.

(Fuck, I double posted. Sorry, I forget how much slower it is in here.)

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

Great, fine, amazing, wonderful. As I said, it's enough for me. Apparently, it's not enough for the "birthers", so deal with it. Don't attack me for what some crazy people think. Why, though, would the left claim to hate these "birthers" yet still allow them to exist and allow their rumors to continue?

Oh, I know!


Which post? The ones about the "birthers" and the Ku Klux Klan or the one posting Obama's certificate of live birth which you seem to think is synonymous with a birth certificate?

So, I guess, you were the one who ended up looking like an idiot. I always had my doubts about you (I mean, you did hang around with that "I'm a girl" BoA-obsessed freak Trainwreck who turned out to really be a man back in the day - he/she had some really great things to say about you. Of course, this says nothing about you in the same way Obama's association with Rev. Wright, Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrn, Henry Louis Gates, Van Jones, and the rest of his "friends" means he is a middle-of-the-road moderate), but now I'm convinced.

I think blackilicious over here brought it personal since he can't make sense about anything else on the boards and needs to stutter like the fat kid in Billy Madison through every post.

[Leif]

I didn't make it personal. I thought I made it clear she was stupid because she was stupid.

Anyways, I'd like to rephrase my comments on her relationship with the he/she.

Did you ever cyber with it?

[Ivve]

Just curious, why does it matter so much to some people that the president was born here or born to a set of citizens that met particular criteria? Patriotism is not genetic. Even if he were born on the moon I wouldn't particularly care. Being born somewhere else doesn't make it more certain that he's passing on national secrets or something. That doesn't even make sense. How do people draw those 2 things together? Clearly if everyone born here were 100% loyal, we wouldn't have even needed to put clauses for treason up in our shit.

[Knyghtmayre]

But if he was born on the moon he wouldn't be an earthling.

[Ksandra]

I didn't make it personal. I thought I made it clear she was stupid because she was stupid.

Anyways, I'd like to rephrase my comments on her relationship with the he/she.

Did you ever cyber with it?

umm you must have me confused with someone else, I always hated trainwreck and spent a lot of time trying to get them out of the LS...are you thinking of Katsythe or however that was spelled?

[edit] was already with my fiance by the time I was in that ls...must have cybered a guy I hated when he was away wwwwwwwwwwww

[another edit] to get an idea of my feelings about tw check out this thread:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/74088...nwreck-bc.html

even if you don't care you can check it out cause it's actually a pretty awesomely funny story.