Beckwin

[Colenzo]

so much text

[Conrad]

I think i got the solution to this Beckwin. I don't believe that any argument based on reason or emotion will convince you, rather, we must rely on experience to educate you. It would perhaps be of great benefit if the American polity were to descend to such extremes that you'd have no choice but to abbandon your lofty ideas that seem to seemingly be born out of some affection for institutions that are no longer capable of effective governance. If the government were to dive further into extremism (going even further with torture, going even further with wars, going even further with detention), the economy were to collapse even further or to a larger degree with only a few benefitting, and violence and disorder to reign supreme in the american republic, you'd have no choice but to demand and desire a complete change of system, and never trust a politician again.

Hmm, with this into consideration, perhaps more betrayals from the democrats and other liberal institutions, and the republicans winning in 2012 would be the best scenario.

We must destroy the village to save the village.

[Kuya]

Nah, fuck the village.

[Conrad]

So we must fuck the village to save the village? That seems convoluted.

[Kuya]

No reason to keep the village if the village is designed to fuck you over. Think of it like this, said village is designed for gays, and as a straight man you will always be at a disadvantage, so the village must die.

[Conrad]

Though I am a socialist, I am not in full agreement of an American revolutionary movement which involves tearing down the infrastructure and rebuilding anew. Capitalism is indeed a flawed system and becoming far too unstable to function correctly, but what other type of system would be appropriate for housing the massive American financial base? Socialism, which would logically follow in a Marxist structure, would continue to reward the elites who helped rebuild society without permitting competition at the lowest levels. Society would stagnate in a socialist system rather than overextend itself in capitalism, and neither is favorable.

[Conrad]

That combination of words I just wrote sounds very intellectual. One would think I went to Princeton or something.

[Kuya]

It does not matter, capitalism and the American system in particular is unsustainable. Americans will be forced to change regardless of their aversion to revolutions, and in any case, revolutions need not happen due to movements or by blood.

[Kuya]

Although blood will certainly be spilt.

[Kuya]

Basically, due to the nature of capitalism and American military adventures and consumerism, it is simply impossible for America to stand as it is. This means that regardless of whether there exists a revolutionary movement to change the American way of life or not, the system will collapse. There is no need for a movement as it will happen automatically, however if you want to make sure that the future is beneficial to you, it might be a good idea to do something. Sadly, there is no certainty that whatever comes next will be good to us.

[Conrad]

It does not matter, capitalism and the American system in particular is unsustainable. Americans will be forced to change regardless of their aversion to revolutions, and in any case, revolutions need not happen due to movements or by blood.

But will the revolution be a rejection of the capitalist structure and wealthy elites, or will it be the disenfranchised conservative base that takes their protests a bit too far and sparks general chaos and the total rejection of our government? I would prefer the former, but I fear for the latter given current trends.

[Kuya]

It looks like the latter, but that might be a positive thing.

[Kuya]

Real change, not Obama change, happens when the status quo becomes unbearable for most people. If the right is an instrument towards that end, then it would perhaps be of benefit for those who oppose the current system to encourage their extremism. We don't get our hands bloody, but they do.

[Conrad]

Also, a society so fearful of breaking social norms such as America would have a difficult time assembling civilian masses to rise up against what they see to be an oppressive power, in whatever method they find most appealing. Revolutionaries would be seen as lunatics or cult leaders. It would take a major smoking gun to ignite the sort of radical change you are suggesting.

[Kuya]

As i've said, they don't have to do anything. Their way of life and capitalism is breaking apart their society anyway. Americans don't have to rebel against anything, because there won't be anything to rebel against.

[Kuya]

To be incredibly vague, there are two possible outcomes. Either we get the same thing but with a different colour, like feudalism to capitalism. Or we get something completely different, which might be worse than what we have now (to some or most people).

[Conrad]

Am I an appropriate substitute for Beckwin, Kuya?

[Kuya]

Well, we haven't really gotten into anything specific so i can't say for sure, but thus far, no, you are not a good imitator of Beckwin as you have not been using enough platitudes.

[Conrad]

Oh

[Conrad]

I can be more dull and irrational, if you'd prefer.