The Hyperinflation of 2010

[Nymphadora]

I genuinely don't know whether it's changed or not, but for me, account-hacking has had a far bigger impact on my gameplay than anything else RMT have done before. Losing claim on an NM to RMT can be classed as "annoying" - losing a character is something far more serious (and SE's initial "head-in-the-sand" approach didn't help either, but that's another issue).

Exactly. Hacking is still around although its not as bad as it once was if you've got a token. Only thing you lose in that case is possibly a few years worth of gear and gil. Still a big loss but you can have it rolled back. Point is, I wouldn't feel right buying anything from them when I'm most likely buying stolen goods in the first place. But I'd honestly rather SE implement some sort of low price RMT system and destroy China's market in this game than watch so many old school players being banned for stupid crap like gardening.

[ringthree]

Exactly. Hacking is still around although its not as bad as it once was if you've got a token. Only thing you lose in that case is possibly a few years worth of gear and gil. Still a big loss but you can have it rolled back. Point is, I wouldn't feel right buying anything from them when I'm most likely buying stolen goods in the first place. But I'd honestly rather SE implement some sort of low price RMT system and destroy China's market in this game than watch so many old school players being banned for stupid crap like gardening.

For those of us that had to deal with not getting an Ullikummi for months on end, my level of frustration was enormous compared to any fear I had of being hacked.

Yes, today I am more afraid of being hacked than I am of RMT controlling NMs. But back in the day many LS's had to completely shut down because they could never get Ullikummi let alone any NM in sky. I used to scream at my monitor after watching the RMT hack and claim Ullikummi over and over.

[Mizango]

Nothing that the legendary Pandemonium sky pact of '04 couldn't fix. :D

[Sensui]

Oh.. the memories..

7.7m for NQ Weskit. NQ Staves were over a mil each. AM was 1+ Mil. (So was Water IV)

Shortly after, ToAU was released and you could get Dragon Talon from an ISNM. Then I don't know what happened but everyone and their mom started gardening and Ores dropped and staves became dirt cheap.

Worst time to level BLM. Ever. QQ

Although, it was kind of fun (lie) farming against Viking in sky. I sort of miss the earlier years. When everything felt new and exciting and everyone wasn't using tools and bots except for the RMT.

I like the fact also, that RMT were hated for selling Rare/Ex gear. Now everyone's doing it. Maybe they weren't RMT and were just ahead of the curve.

[Bugpop]

There are laws in the US and Japan that control the use of copyrighted material, or further, profiting off of someone else's copyright without their consent.

Your generation may be OK with the idea of taking intellectual copyrighted material without permission, but that does not make it legal.

You don't know me to know what generation I belong to.

Buying and selling virtual currency does not constitute a copyright infringement. I concede that third party programs may infringe on copyrights but I don't know how third party programs work and it isn't up to me to prove it.

[Vodou]

Usage of third party programs are against the TOS
Purchasing virtual currency with real money is agains the TOS

Both are breach of contract and carry the same penalites. Neither are illegal.

Breach of contract is a legal term. I'm not sure if you are thinking that things that are "illegal" are criminal or what, but "illegal" means against the law and breach of contract is in fact against the law.

You seem to think that because this is a game, the owners have forfeit legal rights and remedies. Users have purchased a service, not the digital code and all rights to it. The TOS is clear on that and the laws are clear that barring illegally constructed TOS', they will grant the software makers the right to sell it as they please.

When you agree to a legal contract and knowingly violate it's terms, the owner has MORE remedies available than simply to no longer provide you service. This is what you seem to think. Remedies to breach of contract are not limited to booting you from the game.

[Vodou]

You don't know me to know what generation I belong to.

Buying and selling virtual currency does not constitute a copyright infringement. I concede that third party programs may infringe on copyrights but I don't know how third party programs work and it isn't up to me to prove it.

While you may have the opinion that buying and selling virtual currency is not copyright infringement, there are no court judgments or laws that back your view.

In fact, as cases move through the courts (e.g., MDY vs Blizzard), its becoming more apparent that the courts are going to view in-game content as owned by the makers and its sale by people not licensed to sell it as copyright infringement. Again, to be clear, the selling of items you don't have a right to sell is both copyright infringement and potentially fraud. The issue in the court systems is whether this is to be applied to virtual in-game items, but its clearly not considered okay.

The fact that no law explicitly says selling currency is prohibited is irrelevant. There are laws regarding copyright infringement that comfortably cover these acts.

[Hanyoko]

Square is actually the one Duping the gil now.

Account gets hacked, items liquidated and gil disbursed in ways which make it hard to trace
Account holder requests a rollback and gets their things/gil returned
Is a GM going to force you to drop that shiny item you got at 50% AH value from a bazaar? I sure hope not.

[Kaibelf]

I personally am still feeling the positive effects of the old hyperinflation. A friend of mine gave me a vermy for my birthday late in the year. It didn't do amazing things for my SMN, and around xmas I unloaded it for 14.7m thanks to a lucky maintenance and Shiki pop. I still, in 2009, have about 2.5m of it left because I happened to just NOT spend anything, and focused on rare/ex items just for show. I managed to parlay it into 94 levels of cloth, and gear for 7 more jobs, as well as never being broke. Good times.

[Bugpop]

While you may have the opinion that buying and selling virtual currency is not copyright infringement, there are no court judgments or laws that back your view.

In fact, as cases move through the courts (e.g., MDY vs Blizzard), its becoming more apparent that the courts are going to view in-game content as owned by the makers and its sale by people not licensed to sell it as copyright infringement.

This is the case I was referring to when I concede third party programs may infringe on copyrights. I think it's a bit of a stretch but the courts sided with Blizzard anyway.

"Blizzard made a direct copyright infringement claim that relied heavily on an earlier Ninth Circuit holding that copyright infringement may be proved in software cases by showing an unauthorized reproduction of a copyrighted software program in a player’s RAM. Blizzard claimed that this license to copy its software into RAM is expressly conditioned on compliance with the contractual restriction prohibiting bot software. Blizzard argued that, because the EULA did not permit a RAM copy of the World of Warcraft software when Glider was also running on the same computer, Glider players were infringing Blizzard’s copyright in the World of Warcraft software by copying it without a license."

"The Court found that because use of the World of Warcraft software in conjunction with Glider falls outside the scope of EULA, Glider players therefore infringe Blizzard’s copyright."

source: Lawyers in a Gamer's World: Blizzard v. MDY Update: $6.5 Million Judgment Stands, Appeal is Imminent

[Bugpop]

Breach of contract is a legal term. I'm not sure if you are thinking that things that are "illegal" are criminal or what, but "illegal" means against the law and breach of contract is in fact against the law.

You seem to think that because this is a game, the owners have forfeit legal rights and remedies. Users have purchased a service, not the digital code and all rights to it. The TOS is clear on that and the laws are clear that barring illegally constructed TOS', they will grant the software makers the right to sell it as they please.

When you agree to a legal contract and knowingly violate it's terms, the owner has MORE remedies available than simply to no longer provide you service. This is what you seem to think. Remedies to breach of contract are not limited to booting you from the game.

As you have said, illegal means against the law, unlawful, or illicit. An illegal act carries penalties according to the law. An illegal act is indeed a criminal act. There is no law in the US that makes it a crime to buy and sell virtual goods. Your claims about my claims are false.

Check out my previous posts. I have said it is against the ToS to engage in RMT and to use third party apps. I have said that using third party apps may violate copyright. I disagree that RMT violates copyright. I do have some arguments that RMT does violate copyright but my opinion of them is that they are flimsy.

[ringthree]

As you have said, illegal means against the law, unlawful, or illicit. An illegal act carries penalties according to the law. An illegal act is indeed a criminal act. There is no law in the US that makes it a crime to buy and sell virtual goods. Your claims about my claims are false.

Check out my previous posts. I have said it is against the ToS to engage in RMT and to use third party apps. I have said that using third party apps may violate copyright. I disagree that RMT violates copyright. I do have some arguments that RMT does violate copyright but my opinion of them is that they are flimsy.

There are laws in the United States that prohibit the distribution of other's copyrighted work, and especially prohibit the distribution of that work for profit without the permission of the copyright owner.

You are just making a semantics argument, not one that is based in reality. There is also no law in the US that say I can't "punch that dude in the fucking face" but there are laws against assault.

Under your understanding of copyright then any distribution of music, movies or games is perfectly legal because no law says I can't "send my friend a copy of my Metalica MP3."

[Bugpop]

There are laws in the United States that prohibit the distribution of other's copyrighted work, and especially prohibit the distribution of that work for profit without the permission of the copyright owner.

You are just making a semantics argument, not one that is based in reality. There is also no law in the US that say I can't "punch that dude in the fucking face" but there are laws against assault.

Under your understanding of copyright then any distribution of music, movies or games is perfectly legal because no law says I can't "send my friend a copy of my Metalica MP3."

I am not making an argument based on semantics.



I heard this argument: RMT violates SE's right choose whether or not they want to offer virtual goods in exchange for real money. SE can choose to offer virtual goods in exchange for real money if they want but they choose not to. They still retain the right to create new gil in exchange for real money. I agree that they should retain this right and protect it.

I could go down the road and hire some day laborers to play ffxi for me for 8 hours a day for 4 weeks on my computer and PS2. There is no copyright infringement here. It might be pricier than I want but I don't have to deal with the grind of farming. What if I outsourced to china instead and hired a bunch of laborers there to earn gil for me. I could pay them for their hard work and as an added bonus, they would be cheaper than the day laborers. How is this copyright infringement? The only difference is they used their own computers.

Despite the long distances involved, the owners of the accounts, or the actual player there was never any copyright infringement.

I claim that RMT is not illegal because it does not violate copyright laws. Transferring virtual currency from one account to another account is not a copyright violation.

[frodnonnag]

playing devil's advocate for a minute, a dumb friend once said this about buying gold in WoW for an epic mount: "it is either an investment of time or an investment of money, i'd rather pay the money now and have the time to enjoy it, than grind though all that shit at what amounts to $2 an hour worth of gold if sold and i still might not get the item."

to him, it was the $$ cost of the gold upfront vs how much gold he'd make by farming it and how much money/time invested he'd "lose" by grinding it out instead.

[Bugpop]

playing devil's advocate for a minute, a dumb friend once said this about buying gold in WoW for an epic mount: "it is either an investment of time or an investment of money, i'd rather pay the money now and have the time to enjoy it, than grind though all that shit at what amounts to $2 an hour worth of gold if sold and i still might not get the item."

to him, it was the $$ cost of the gold upfront vs how much gold he'd make by farming it and how much money/time invested he'd "lose" by grinding it out instead.

I see nothing wrong with that.

[frodnonnag]

I see nothing wrong with that.

and therein lies the problem. these games are designed to be pure time wasters. it is entirely about the treadmill there, rather than the actual prize, because as everyone knows, once you achieve that prize, there isn't much left to do, except quit and move on.

[Malacite]

Keep in mind that SE is keeping tabs on RMT activity much more closely and viciously now.

They didn't have all the tools at their disposal then that they do now, and I'm fairly confident that anyone stupid enough to take part in a mass gil-buying spree that would lead to a return of the inflation era would be met with a swift banning.

[Bugpop]

I think an earlier post of mine was ignored...

After the last wave of bannings I only saw the price of Gil increase around 50%. At MOGS what was selling for $25/mil pre ban was selling for $38 afterward. Currently prices are at $30/mil.Companies that sell online currency seem to now only broker deals from from seller to buyer -- similar to hotwire or priceline. In-game trade only occuring between gilseller and gilbuyer.

SE's banhammer was so heavy that it banned everyone that had what they had programmed as characteristic gilseller actions. It may be that this business model keeps gil-trading networks so small that it is difficult for their algorithm to spot RMT from non-RMT trades.

If true, RMT has an advantage here but I admit I am speculating off of what I have gleaned from current RMT methods.

Right now RMT is resorting to gil-farming activities that closely mimic that of a genuine player. As far as SE is concerned there is no easy money. If you have a a technique which nets easy money then you stand in the way of getting banned.

[Thiefami]

I think an earlier post of mine was ignored...



Right now RMT is resorting to gil-farming activities that closely mimic that of a genuine player. As far as SE is concerned there is no easy money. If you have a a technique which nets easy money then you stand in the way of getting banned.

they drove the shit out of nebimonite prices, i'll assume once fishing gets high enough they will greatly lower the worth of other fish too. I also believe they got privvy and sent fish to hacked or characters for sale to be sold on auctionhouse to avoid detection.

[fussel]

If you think padded caps came anywhere near tavnazian safehold in terms of gil generated, you're badly mistaken.

But padded caps were there before CoP was released. Remember Rabao being full of people with nobody actually being there? Everyone and their mother fishbotted the hell out of that.

The Safehold exploit was fixed pretty fast, but fishbots were going on for years.

On the original topic: I've never seen more than 2000 people online on Odin in the last couple of weeks (ok, I'm in the EU timezone, but still, half a year ago, it was always 3000+ with 6000 tops). Reduction of demand.

/edit:

Introduction of Sushi was a huge money sink. ~3k straight to the NPC for Ground Wasabi and other ingredients only available at NPC vendors. IIRC, introduction of sushi was after the great inflation.

Crafting bots. Did you ever try outcrafting RMT on high-throughput consumables (Meat Mithkabob, Shihei)? They even sold at a loss just to drive you away and then raised prices again. While this doesn't remove/create money from the game, it still moves money to the RMTs stockpiles making their offers cheaper.