COR/WHM

[Carrilei]

There's almost no need for "/Whm gear," which I take is a synonym for MP gear. It obviously depends on what you're doing, but if you are /mage, the MP you'll have natively is enough - especially considering partial or full MP merits, food, and an elemental grip if using a stave, or Legion Scutum if using melee gear.

There's a long list of gear concerns with COR, but strait MP is not one of them. Don't waste time listening to any people that obstinately think 200~300~ max MP isn't enough for sporadic status fixes and back-up cures. It's enough; rate of MP regeration is what matters far more. If for whatever reason, you cannot contribute at all with physical or QD damage, then sure, go wild with the Morgana Choker's and Lamia Mantle's - but that is either never or almost never the case, and hypothetically if it did occur... You'd only use MP gear because there's nothing else that would be helpful.

[thetruepandagod]

Carrilei aren't you the troll from the allah cor forums?

edit: before you reply with your familiar retardation let me first say that i think a cor should be capable of properly playing whatever sub is asked of out and that no /sub should be shunned solely because it will hurt your epeen damage. A linkshell won't tell you to go /whm unless they actually feel that they will need the back up help on erasing ailments for example small man tiamat.

[nitsuj]

Man if we let members come whatever job they wanted to events we'd end up with 0 rdms, 0 brds, and probably a nin tank lol. We do our best to cycle people on their jobs, but our members also realize their nin or bst will probably never see the light of an event. Then again our members know that they are expected to play the job/sj at events which will most positively benefit the outcome of the event. If you're unhappy then ya quit, but if it said in the LS rules that you're expected to play what you ask then you're SOL.

Not "let them come any job they want". I'm saying the individual shouldn't level something they don't enjoy, and they shouldn't do something in game they don't enjoy.

More of a pet peeve when people level BRD or WHM to get into endgame, then complain that they have to come BRD or WHM to events >.>.

This is a game first and foremost. So the game should be enjoyed. Just level the jobs you WANT to play and then when the linkshell says "Oh Nitsuj, you have to come WHM tonight" you won't be like "Gahhh I HATE WHM!"

Personally, /WHM isn't as fun as COR can be, I'll admit that. But situationally it has its uses. I usually /WHM in Einherjar to help with status ailments. To the OP, I'm just saying if he's not having fun, and the linkshell refuses to acknowledge that situationally, /NIN, /RNG, /RGM and /WAR (maybe even /BRD!) have their uses on COR then he should find one that does, because that means they obviously don't know their shit.

[Carrilei]

truepandagod, feel free to show me where exactly I shunned a SJ here. I've shunned the statement that COR cannot DD "in any way, at any event," as well as using MP gear instead of physical damage or QD gear... But I don't recall bashing a SJ. I may have forgotten though, it has been awhile since I made these posts. . .

Kudos on contributing nothing but negative and incorrect thoughts. Nice reading comprehension. Why did I even respond? Waste of time.

[Thorny]

truepandagod, feel free to show me where exactly I shunned a SJ here. I've shunned the statement that COR cannot DD "in any way, at any event," as well as using MP gear instead of physical damage or QD gear... But I don't recall bashing a SJ. I may have forgotten though, it has been awhile since I made these posts. . .

Kudos on contributing nothing but negative and incorrect thoughts. Nice reading comprehension. Why did I even respond? Waste of time.

I'd do your avatar and OP's avatar. At the same time.

[Carrilei]

I'd do your avatar and OP's avatar. At the same time.

Mihli's mine!

[Sinharvest]

Before I start OP, this isnt directed towards you.

First off, Panda is correct. A truely good COR will be exceptional in all variations of support. I had a RDM recently apply to the LS who "refused" to level WHM sub and needless to say, he was denied. I'm sure everyone recognizes and can agree on the benefits of having both WHM and BLM subs for a RDM in an HNMLS right? So why is COR any different? What gives a COR the right to disregard and argue against having a sub that can be, beyond a shadow of a doubt, useful to a LS's success at an event? Advocating that COR DD is the only way to go just shows the sheer ignorance of the COR community and saying how a LS should bend to the will of a single job is appauling, especially when you're looking at potentially being counter productive.

I'm inclined to think that either most CORs have never done anything end game or these supposed end game LS's on other servers are incredibly gimp. I'm not advocating that /WHM is the only way to go, because it's not. But COR DD, melee or otherwise, is nice but shouldnt be relied upon, rather its a nice bonus. COR can put up some really nice numbers DDing, but in the grand scheme of things, your damage output will not compete with top tier DD. Leave DDing up to the real DDs and support them in the most efficient way possible. If it means you also DD, then cool but if it means cure support, then man the hell up and do what's best for your team.

COR/WHM is not being lazy and sometimes the littlest of things can make the biggest impact. Gadritan said it best in his post.

I hate playing cor/whm, but the new ls im in seems to think that corsairs cannot DD in any way at any event, so im forced to play as /whm, problem is i have no gear for /whm and even less of an idea on how to make this anywhere near usefull other than stoneskin and 1 curaga II evry 5 mins

so i guess what im asking is, what gear should i get and what should my macro's look like for this class combo :/

Gear I would recommend using would be as follows:

Weapon: Apollo's Staff.
Sub: Staff Strap.
Ranged: I use Peacemaker for sleeps/dispels, Corsair's Gun +1 for DD Quickdraws, and Martial for WS.
Ammo: Steel Bullets.
Head: I personally use Blood Mask. Regen is nice to idle in and the enfeebling skill is good for sleeps when curing on SCH sub (provided you need a dark based sleep). Faerie Hairpin is a big chunk of mp or if you're low on inventory, W.turban works too.
Neck: Morgana's Choker.
Ear1: Loquacious Earring.
Ear2: Astral Earring.
Body: Crimson Scale Mail ideally but Blue Cotehardie works too.
Hands: Since I'm hume, I use Marine M Gloves. Blood Finger Gauntlets work too.
Ring1: Luzaf's Ring and Ether ring. Luzaf's mainly if I'm doing a 2-3 roll cycle in a BLM PT as a healer. Ether if I'm doing a 4-5 roll cycle in a more diverse PT. Vivian ring is obviously better than Ether if you happen to have one.
Ring2: Serket Ring or Vivian ring.
Back: Lamia Mantle +1 or something like an Altruistic cape. They're close in terms of mp.
Waist: Ocean Rope, again because I'm Hume. Any mp related belt works.
Legs: Prince's Slops or Blood Cuisses.
Feet: Blood Greaves.

As for macros, I just keep certain spells like handy for status cures and what not.

Again, some of this gear is subjective to your race but you'd want to go with what gives the most mp. As a Hume, I have 547mp with no mp merits yet. The amount of stress I can relieve off of the healers isinvaluable in certain situations. Carrilei saying not to gear for mp has done nothing but succeed in ruining the credibility of his opinions and advice. For those who watched the live stream of Sylph's AV fight, you'll see a perfect example of why a COR should gear for mp. With Evokers roll and Ghorn ballad, my mp was constantly being drained helping our WHM cure the BLMs along with curing myself, reapplying stoneskin, putting up Reraise, etc. Your native mp gained from sub job alone WOULD NOT have been enough to sustain the damage taken.

This also proves my point of when DD becomes counter productive. I could have come COR/RDM in my full AGI/MAB gear to put up some decent numbers with QD but it wouldnt have been worth it. The native mp from RDM sub alone pretty much allows for me to protect myself only with Phalanx, Stoneskin, and cures. So the question becomes, how many BLM would die as a result of my unwillingness to sub WHM and help cure? The BLMs are providing a higher consistent form of damage than what my QDs will so you'd think it would make sense to keep them alive over DDing.

Another sub to consider OP, is SCH sub for healing. Someone touched on that as well and I use the same mp setup with that sub. As you become to a custom to your LS's ways, you'll learn to adapt and know when to use each sub. If you dont enjoy WHM or SCH subs then perhaps end game COR isnt for you. I dont say that to be mean at all but the single greatest thing about COR is how incredibly versatile it can be to adapt to almost every situation. People like Carrilei arguing the effectiveness of COR DD being applied to virtually every situation is like a child trying to fit that rectangular block through the circular hole. I mean, I'm sure you could push and push and eventually shove it through, but in the end was it really worth it?

I take a lot of pride in my Corsair. I have RNG, WAR, NIN, WHM, BLM, RDM, SCH, and DNC all leveled as potential subs with gear sets to match (BLU coming eventually). I say this with no ego but I have almost all the best possible gear a COR can equip for every situation (Melee, Ranged, WS, AGI/MAB, Haste, and MP. I'll even post screen shots for those who want proof of my credibility) but my willingness to embrace the myriad of uses a COR can excel at is what separates me from most of the narrow minded community.

It sickens me that important factors such as versatility fall by the way side in a community of CORs trying to make everyone believe they're a credible DD job. We fucking know COR can DD, show people that when the opportunities arises in the correct situations. The OP was looking for advice on gear and macros but instead got responses like "find a new LS". It's quite sad.

[Carrilei]

If you run out of MP with a max of 300, the same thing is going to happen if you have 550. And it won't delay that happening by much if you're really having to spam spells that fucking much on COR. This all to completely ignore gear to boost damage dealt.

I'm not saying completely disregard MP. You need enough of a pool to utilize everything you're doing /mage. To bring up things I've already mentioned: MP merits, food, and 20 from grip. You shouldn't need more than that, no.

You seem to know an awful lot about the exact playstyle COR should use on a mob that isn't being beaten. Perhaps AV is one example where MP gear would be more helpful than it normally is - but fuck, nobody is beating it, so until he's being beaten and the strategy shows 550 MP being enough and 300 not, I fail to see much signifigance in it..

You should know that I've utilized even more SJ's than you listed, and because of doing so much Salvage, have probably been on /Whm more than any other SJ. But those kind of facts work in the opposite way of what you're trying to spew, so go ahead and ignore.

Edit - and by the way, use a gd Reraise Earring in that situation on AV, instead of continually burning 150 MP over and again for no reason. Are you not thinking? Or do you just enjoy throwing away most of the MP you've managed to get over a COR gearing for damage, before insulting them?

With Evokers roll and Ghorn ballad, my mp was constantly being drained helping our WHM cure the BLMs along with curing myself, reapplying stoneskin, putting up Reraise, etc.

[DeathbySnoosnoo]

If you can hit it constantly with sushi, /Dnc > /Whm, if you can't but can QD it, /Rdm > /Whm, if all you can do is buff and backup heal, tell those mother fuckers to get a bard.

[Sinharvest]

If you run out of MP with a max of 300, the same thing is going to happen if you have 550. And it won't delay that happening by much if you're really having to spam spells that fucking much on COR. This all to completely ignore gear to boost damage dealt.

Of course the same thing is going to happen. The same thing will happen if you run out of mp with any amount so where is that justification to get by with what you feel is the minimum? Running out of mp isnt really the issue (well it is kinda) but in this respect, it's how efficient you can be with your mp before you run out and ideally you dont ever want to run out. But some times things cant be helped and in situations where you're curing multiple people, mp usage adds up. And really, if you're COR/WHM why are you trying to boost damage dealt? I would think if you're COR/WHM, the DD aspect of what ever it is you're trying to do is taken care of or else you wouldnt be asked to sub WHM. Either that, or the mob doesnt make it feasible for you as a COR to make DDing worthwhile. So why not focus on being purely support? The only way I could see that being worthwhile would be a very low man situation and even then, I'd think COR/DNC would possibly be more beneficial.

I'm not saying completely disregard MP. You need enough of a pool to utilize everything you're doing /mage. To bring up things I've already mentioned: MP merits, food, and 20 from grip/shield. You shouldn't need more than that, no.

My COR/WHM has 137mp naked. Factor in 80mp from merits, 50mp from something like Rolanberry pies, and 20mp from a grip. I'd have 287mp. Barring any type of refresh, that's a whole 6 cure 3s. If you casted cure 3 those 6 times, you'd be left with 11mp, and depending on the intervals you were casting, you'd need 6 ticks of 6mp/tick refresh (Generic 3mp refesh 3mp evokers for the sake of argument) just to be able to cast cure 3 one more time. So I can see where you'd be right, but you'd have to be casting pretty damn infrequently. And that's not even counting status cures, stoneskin, or anything else. You definitely need more than what you mention. Of course, this is my opinion and what works for me and I understand you have your opinion and I'll respect that despite how wrong I feel it is. Also, I know there's better mp food but again for the sake of argument, I just use something simple and effective.

You seem to know an awful lot about the exact playstyle COR should use on a mob that isn't being beaten. Perhaps AV is one example where MP gear would be more helpful than it normally is - but fuck, nobody is beating it, so until he's being beaten and the strategy shows 550 MP being enough and 300 not, I fail to see much signifigance in it..

I never said that was the exact playstyle of a COR on AV, however, through experience it is a playstyle that has obviously proven to be effective and in my opinion, proven to be the most effective. I think you fail to see the significance because you've talked yourself into a hole you cant dig yourself out of now.

The three spells I spammed the most in that fight were Cure 3, Curaga 2, Stoneskin, and to an extent Reraise. Casting each of those once comes to 345mp. Now, you'd definitely have refresh outside of the evokers roll you're providing but having that little bit of mp you feel is sufficient is barely enough to cast all those once. Not to mention spamming Cure 3 at 46mp a pop. You could solve the RR mp expendature with an RR item however but what if there's a time there are no RR items? It's not uncommon for them to go out of stock on the AH when multiple LS buy them up in anticipation for the fight. So it's something you should consider factoring in so you're better prepared. It would really suck if you had a shitty mp pool and unable to secure a RR item. Also, considering how relatively easy it is to get a good mp build on COR, I dont see why you shouldnt if you're expected to be purely support.

The method for us was to get BLMs cured up to full hp as quickly as possible to avoid being wiped if a second meteor went off before we could fully cure everyone. The non manafont meteor is mostly survivable unless of course you eat a second one with all buffs down and low hp. So in a short amount of time, you need to help full cure the alliance and get your stoneskin back up before another meteor goes off. So yes, you spam a lot and blow through a lot of mp.

Edit - and by the way, use a gd Reraise Earring in that situation on AV, instead of continually burning 150 MP over and again for no reason. Are you not thinking? Or do you just enjoy throwing away most of the MP you've managed to get over a COR gearing for damage, before insulting them?

Usually I do use a RR item, but in this instance, I was already running late due to work related stuff and the charges I had on mine ran out. So I guess that was poor planning on my part to not have a fully charged item so I had to make do. However, I implore you, go DD AV on COR and tell me how well that works out for you. Unless your QD is going to consistently out damage the BLMs, you're damage set is useless with the way it's currently being fought. Also, considering you obviously cant spam RR, I thought you'd be smart enough to deduce that most of my mp usage came from curing.

[Mizango]

I see 3 people that know what the fuck they are talking about. Anyone still on that "OMG IM 2 l33T 4 Whm" should be dismissed immediately.

If you're good you will have ALL your subs and have them geared appropriately. Bitching only shows that you know nothing about how your job works. Nothing fails worse than a one trick pony.

[FailureMidgard]

If you can hit it constantly with sushi, /Dnc > /Whm, if you can't but can QD it, /Rdm > /Whm, if all you can do is buff and backup heal, tell those mother fuckers to get a bard.

You're quite ignorant, eh? In case you were unaware, bards and corsairs have different rolls, that do stack. May have heard of Wizard's roll? Sorry, but 1/tick ballad more (at best) doesn't really compare to it.

You also may have heard of Samurai roll or Fighter's Roll? Well, you see, those further enhance the melee that are getting marches from the bard.

I'm not saying you should always sub white mage, I'm saying you're stupid and a little too self-centered if you can't tell where you should use it. Also, if you're ever trying to low-man something like Wyrm, there is a lot to be said about a solid MP build, IMO.

[Carrilei]

I would think if you're COR/WHM, the DD aspect of what ever it is you're trying to do is taken care of or else you wouldnt be asked to sub WHM.

Really? Because the one example we have here from you, the mob got to 65% or something and that was that. More damage would totally not be helpful, right?

My COR/WHM has 137mp naked. Factor in 80mp from merits, 50mp from something like Rolanberry pies, and 20mp from a grip. I'd have 287mp. Barring any type of refresh, that's a whole 6 cure 3s. If you casted cure 3 those 6 times, you'd be left with 11mp, and depending on the intervals you were casting, you'd need 6 ticks of 6mp/tick refresh (Generic 3mp refesh 3mp evokers for the sake of argument) just to be able to cast cure 3 one more time. So I can see where you'd be right, but you'd have to be casting pretty damn infrequently. And that's not even counting status cures, stoneskin, or anything else. You definitely need more than what you mention. Of course, this is my opinion and what works for me and I understand you have your opinion and I'll respect that despite how wrong I feel it is. Also, I know there's better mp food but again for the sake of argument, I just use something simple and effective.

Where exactly are you needing to spam Cure III so hard? Yes, I mean outside of AV losses. Whatever it is, if you quickly lose 300 MP, you'll also quickly lose 550.

I never said that was the exact playstyle of a COR on AV, however, through experience it is a playstyle that has obviously proven to be effective and in my opinion, proven to be the most effective. I think you fail to see the significance because you've talked yourself into a hole you cant dig yourself out of now.

The three spells I spammed the most in that fight were Cure 3, Curaga 2, Stoneskin, and to an extent Reraise. Casting each of those once comes to 345mp. Now, you'd definitely have refresh outside of the evokers roll you're providing but having that little bit of mp you feel is sufficient is barely enough to cast all those once. Not to mention spamming Cure 3 at 46mp a pop. You could solve the RR mp expendature with an RR item however but what if there's a time there are no RR items? It's not uncommon for them to go out of stock on the AH when multiple LS buy them up in anticipation for the fight. So it's something you should consider factoring in so you're better prepared. It would really suck if you had a shitty mp pool and unable to secure a RR item. Also, considering how relatively easy it is to get a good mp build on COR, I dont see why you shouldnt if you're expected to be purely support.

The method for us was to get BLMs cured up to full hp as quickly as possible to avoid being wiped if a second meteor went off before we could fully cure everyone. The non manafont meteor is mostly survivable unless of course you eat a second one with all buffs down and low hp. So in a short amount of time, you need to help full cure the alliance and get your stoneskin back up before another meteor goes off. So yes, you spam a lot and blow through a lot of mp.

Okay, more of the same examples from AV. I think I've said enough for you to know what I feel here. There's nothing stopping you from using DS/Curaga II's with 300 MP. Healers outside of the BLM party should be the main curing power behind this, no? There's no way a COR with 550 max MP heals them adequately, yet a COR with 300 does not.

Usually I do use a RR item, but in this instance, I was already running late due to work related stuff and the charges I had on mine ran out. So I guess that was poor planning on my part to not have a fully charged item so I had to make do. However, I implore you, go DD AV on COR and tell me how well that works out for you. Unless your QD is going to consistently out damage the BLMs, you're damage set is useless with the way it's currently being fought. Also, considering you obviously cant spam RR, I thought you'd be smart enough to deduce that most of my mp usage came from curing.

I haven't bothered with AV; from what I can see it's a waste of time if SE makes him unbeatable anytime it's beaten. So I don't have personal experiance with how QD performs against him, or /ra for that matter. Let's even assume no physical damage would be in whatever strategy does work. I'd like to show you exactly what you're giving up from a QD damage standpoint.

Corsair's Tricorne +1 is adding 10 base damage to your Gun+Bullet, as well as 4 AGI. Uggalepih Pendant part of the time (a lot of the time, if your claims of your MP 'constantly being drained' are true.. Which is why again, max MP isn't such a big deal, and rate of MP regeneration is). That's 8 MaB, and Caract Chocker is 2, so let's say an average of 5 MaB from Neck. 12 MaB from Earrings, Moldavite and Novio. 5 seconds off QD from Mirke, as well as 5 AGI and 4 MaB. 5 AGI from Skadi's Bazubands. 10 more AGI from Breeze Rings. 3 AGI on Commander's Cape. Sadly no weather in Al'Taieu, which is obviously uncommon with QD damage. Usually you can use an obi to enhance a good deal. So let's say Grenadier Belt's 3 AGI instead, I think that's the best off the top of my head. Nimue's Tights 4 MaB or Denali Keck's 3 MaB 3 AGI and 3 Magic Acc, either way. And finally Corsair's Bottes +1 gives another 5 AGI.

In total this is: 10 base damage added to Gun+Bullet, 5 seconds off QD, bringing 50 seconds to 45. +25 MaB with Nimue's, or 24 with Denali... +35 AGI with Nimue's, or +38 with Denali.. As well as 3 Magic Acc if Denali.

Now it's around 8 am and I haven't slept, hit with insomnia so I hope no typos exist here, but anyone can see there are massive gains to be made to QD damage. Anyone can also see that more damage is needed on AV, so the COR gearing for damage QD's may be the best decision, while having additional outside healing do what no COR can in terms of keeping people alive.

I don't understand why you say, if QD can not out-parse a BLM, it's useless on AV, but then again I haven't been keeping up with what people are doing to that freaking Aern. Feel free to explain, but do realize that in terms of discussing COR playstyle, I don't think fucking AV should be the basis for how to play COR throughout endgame. Whether it's best to use QD gear or MP gear on AV.. You need to break down each event when considering the best playstyle for it, and that varies greatly. That's why I have like 11 or 12 SJ's.

To touch back on the OP, why exactly would you want to join some idiotic LS that only sees COR as /Whm and no damage to everything? Or tell someone who did to just eat it and gear MP? That's not fun, at least if you're at all concerned with player performance, which I would assume is the case here...



(preemptive edit/reminder of what I wrote on page 1.. ...Apologies for the lengthy post)

If for whatever reason, you cannot contribute at all with physical or QD damage, then sure, go wild with the Morgana Choker's and Lamia Mantle's - but that is either never or almost never the case...

To get redundant with my quote there, if both physical and magical damage are null and void, then of course the only thing left to do is gear MP if /mage. If it is indeed the case, it would've been nice for you to read that. However if QD damage can be helpful, I stand by my estimate that QD gear + 300 MP > full MP gear..

[Cesaria]

I run around in about 430 MP /WHM... but I'll confess my /WHM gearset is basically cobbled together with stuff that I have from other mage jobs (forgot about the crimson hooker boots that have mouldered on my mannequin for the last 2 years actually) and I've got macros that basically ask me to confirm if I want to drop into QD or /RA gear with the MP loss on them (the old /echo "you really wanna do this" /smile motion <stpc> to give the confirmation or cancel out thing) so I don't accidentally drop half my MP by hitting a macro.

Hate subbing WHM but it's a necessary evil at times I guess.

[Sinharvest]

Really? Because the one example we have here from you, the mob got to 65% or something and that was that. More damage would totally not be helpful, right?

More damage is always nice, however, COR wont provide adequate enough damage to make not going /WHM to help cure during his meteor phase worth it. We had plenty of damage and if it wasnt for AV depopping after 2 hours, I'm sure most could zombie him to death. The only road block really is surviving 79% and below when he can use meteor freely. Of course my statement here stands based on the way he is currently fought and if a new tactic is figured out, I would adjust accordingly. If a method is figured out where cure spamming back to full as quickly as possible isnt necessary then yes, I would explore other options.

Where exactly are you needing to spam Cure III so hard? Yes, I mean outside of AV losses. Whatever it is, if you quickly lose 300 MP, you'll also quickly lose 550.

Einherjar for one can prove to be taxing on the mp. But not every time as it is subjective to the mobs you get. I'm usually in the BLM PT which consists of 4 BLM/RDM, 1 BRD, and myself on COR and our LS usually has 2 of these types of PTs. So besides the BRD in my PT (Who is usually pulling mobs) I'm the only person capable of status cures, erase, and such. All that mp usage adds up. I'm sure you've gotten slimes in einherjar before right? Fluid Spread hurts and within two Curaga 2s, I've used up a good portion of that 300mp. Why stress the healers out more with having to worry about several PTs when I can adequately take care of my BLM PT myself?

That excuse of running out of mp quickly is a flawed theory. Think of what can be done within that extra 250mp. For one, I dont have the rest mp as often if I wind up having to rest at all. Having to take a knee to build my mp back up causes too much of a delay and isnt always possible when you're trying to keep a roll cycle in order. Having more mp floats you over some of the rougher times when you cant rest mp right away.

But I'm sure you'll just dismiss this as the BLMs in LS not having good enough stoneskin sets, damage taken minus sets, or whatever other straw you can grasp at. I could give more examples but you're unwilling to accept what I've provided so far and more than likely unwilling to accept what I just wrote so I'm not even going to bother. I just hope for other CORs out there, they read what both you and I write and learn something from it by formulating their own opinions from our experiences. If one COR improves because of my debating with you, it was worth putting up with your narrow minded nature.

Okay, more of the same examples from AV. I think I've said enough for you to know what I feel here. There's nothing stopping you from using DS/Curaga II's with 300 MP. Healers outside of the BLM party should be the main curing power behind this, no? There's no way a COR with 550 max MP heals them adequately, yet a COR with 300 does not.

With how frequently you're casting, I can tell you from experience, 300mp is not enough with the current way AV is being fought. There's no reason or excuse for a COR to have only 300mp in this situation except for your fictitious beliefs that COR is some how going to be a significant DD on AV as it stands now. Which is not the case. The refresh you have isnt enough to off set how quickly you'll blow through mp however having a higher max mp will reduce how many times you have to take a knee and rest your mp making you more efficient.

As far as people on the outside go, generally they stay out of the range of meteor. Our BLM PT had 3 BLM, 1 WHM, 1 BRD, and myself on COR to help reduce the need of keeping people on the outside possibly in range of meteor, shell 5, and MDB roll. So yes, I do have help curing... Or rather, the WHM has my help curing as I'm not the main cure for obvious reasons. We work together to get everyone healed up as quickly as possible.

In total this is: 10 base damage added to Gun+Bullet, 5 seconds off QD, bringing 50 seconds to 45. +25 MaB with Nimue's, or 24 with Denali... +35 AGI with Nimue's, or +38 with Denali.. As well as 3 Magic Acc if Denali.

And I agree, QD in a very impressive form of damage. What I've been trying to say, is that's it's not always applicable to every situation and you're trying to make it seem as though it is. Like the world is losing out if a COR cant DD in some way, shape, or form. I love DDing on COR just as much as the next guy but I also know when to use my versatility to my team's advantage. And all that great QD gear wont mean anything to anyone if you were needed to be full cure support. Also, I have most of what you've mentioned for my AGI/MAB set and while using food and being merited, I've been decently resisted if not constantly resisted on some HNM. Dark Ixion and Khimaira come to mind to be exact. I know they are naturally resistant but I wanted to personally test it just to see. So, yes, there are massive gains to QD like you said but they cant always be applied if you're active in all aspects of the end game scene. And the general concensus I see when reading all these posts are that you need to DD in some compacity at every event. Which I disagree with and have supplied my reasoning why.

I don't understand why you say, if QD can not out-parse a BLM, it's useless on AV, but then again I haven't been keeping up with what people are doing to that freaking Aern. Feel free to explain, but do realize that in terms of discussing COR playstyle, I don't think fucking AV should be the basis for how to play COR throughout endgame. Whether it's best to use QD gear or MP gear on AV..

I say that because we cycle in replacement BLMs once they use up all their mp. So unless you're putting up consistent comparable numbers to a BLM, I feel you're better suited to be focused on keeping them alive so they can do their thing. There's not going to be an instance where the BLMs are resting mp and damage slows down enough for you to possibly get close to their total damage with QD's while they're resting. And like I said before, damaging AV isnt the problem, it's surviving the onslaught of meteors after 79% that only get stronger as his hp drops.

AV shouldnt be the basis for how a COR plays end game, you're correct. But that was a perfect example to argue against your post where you say dont gear for mp and to ignore those who say otherwise. That in itself is bad advice to a COR looking to adapt to their LS. The OP was humble enough to accept the fact that he could potentially be full support in some situations and wanted advice. Instead he got you posting your opinions worded as if they were facts.

You need to break down each event when considering the best playstyle for it, and that varies greatly. That's why I have like 11 or 12 SJ's.

That would be a great statement but it's discredited by your refusal to accept that /WHM with a max mp build as full support as a legitimate playstyle dispite the examples I've provided. Like I've said before, the versatility of a COR is what makes them an asset to their LS.

To get redundant with my quote there, if both physical and magical damage are null and void, then of course the only thing left to do is gear MP if /mage. If it is indeed the case, it would've been nice for you to read that. However if QD damage can be helpful, I stand by my estimate that QD gear + 300 MP > full MP gear..

Are you still talking about /WHM or just /mage in general? Because I almost agree with that except for one part. Why do you feel the need to restrict yourself to 300mp as your cap? I carry my QD set on me when /WHM and yes I do lose some mp when I macro it in but when I macro back into mp gear I dont have this limited mp cap for when my casting slows down and my various refreshes can put me over this 300mp cap you limit yourself with. I mean, in your situation, if you're only expecting 300mp while /mage (going to assume /WHM) then hell, any mp you get above 300 are like free spells.

And in my einherjar example at the start, I dont normally QD the normal mobs for the damage and enhanced debuffs if I'm /WHM because they die too fast. To me, it would be a waste of my mp to change the gear. However, by the time we get to the boss my mp is down around your 300mp cap you put yourself at so it's not like I'm "losing" mp by changing gear to QD by your logic. In my eyes and going by your logic I'm at full mp by the time we fight the boss and I can QD without me losing my max mp meaning that 250 extra mp during the normal mobs were all free supportive casts.

To touch back on the OP, why exactly would you want to join some idiotic LS that only sees COR as /Whm and no damage to everything? Or tell someone who did to just eat it and gear MP? That's not fun, at least if you're at all concerned with player performance, which I would assume is the case here...

This goes both ways. If a LS refuses to acknowledge the myriad of uses a COR can provide, then perhaps that LS isnt right for you either. It's your responsibility to be versatile and as accomodating as possible as a support job and it is your LS's responsibility to keep an open mind and utilize your abilities to their fullest. Forcing someone to be perma /WHM is just as bad as the player refusing to be /WHM over other subs.

[Carrilei]

Why do I feel I should limit myself to a 'cap' of 300 or so MP, to paraphrase? I've found that kind of MP pool on COR is enough to utilize all the spells you're using - if you're constantly spamming Cure III and/or Curaga II to keep people alive, I can tell you that will not end well, additional MP gear or not. People are going to drop fast, period. Either the mob is too difficult like AV, or the people around you are taking too much damage for you to help from a 550 MP start.

You seriously go full MP gear to Einherjar? Melee TP where? Ranged TP on Odin? Do you not ranged TP on Ixion, either..? It's starting to look like you tack on full MP to anything that isn't a Colibri.

Anyway, if you want to speak about ficticious beliefs about COR, you're on the wrong side of the big one concerning damage entirely. That is, as you've stated clearly here, if the COR can't out-parse <whatever DD>, their damage doesn't matter at all. It's as if only having a chance to parse #1 warrants trying to deal damage. Keep in mind QD feeds 0 TP - there are only positives from improved QD damage.

And by the way, I'll gladly accept /Whm with full MP gear as a legitimate playstyle when I see 300 MP is not enough, but 500 or 600 is. I've done nearly everything in the game besides banging my head against an Aern that can't be killed, and I've yet to see that be the case.


Also a quick edit to your last sentence there - I don't understand why you keep bringing up people unwilling to utilize /Whm. Considering I've stated it has been my most used SJ, I must assume you're not talking about me. . .

[Chen]

You seriously go full MP gear to Einherjar? Melee TP where?

So... you'd rather go cor/whm and melee with a shit mp set, than cor/whm with a decent mp set?

[Marcicus]

About that Einherjar comment, it's perfectly fine going COR/WHM to t1-3; in fact I recommend it. However, come Odin you best be going /RNG and shooting right up there with your RNGs.

[Carrilei]

So... you'd rather go cor/whm and melee with a shit mp set, than cor/whm with a decent mp set?

Yes... You can still TP and WS as /Whm... And it's not shit MP for what you're using it for.

[Sinharvest]

You seriously go full MP gear to Einherjar? Melee TP where? Ranged TP on Odin? Do you not ranged TP on Ixion, either..? It's starting to look like you tack on full MP to anything that isn't a Colibri.

lol, I have a Yoichinoyumi now. I'm lucky if I ever get to do anything damage wise on COR ever again outside of QD. So for Odin, Ixion, Cerb, Khim, etc I'm pretty much always going to be on RNG. And yes, I do go max mp to Einherjar as a pure BLM support because that is what my LS asks of me. I've gone DD COR to Einherjar before in the past but when you have several relics decimating mobs, it was a very lackluster experience. My LS prefers I keep an extra eye on our BLMs and BRDs while I help sleep since we have absolutely no problems with having enough damage.

Anyway, if you want to speak about ficticious beliefs about COR, you're on the wrong side of the big one concerning damage entirely. That is, as you've stated clearly here, if the COR can't out-parse <whatever DD>, their damage doesn't matter at all. It's as if only having a chance to parse #1 warrants trying to deal damage. Keep in mind QD feeds 0 TP - there are only positives from improved QD damage

It's not a matter of out parsing a particular job. It's a matter of in a given situation, is your damage output significant enough to warrent taking up the DD side of COR over the full support side. Sometimes it is, sometime it's not. Part of the skill of COR is knowing when to use which to enhance your team. I've said this numerous times.

And by the way, I'll gladly accept /Whm with full MP gear as a legitimate playstyle when I see 300 MP is not enough, but 500 or 600 is. I've done nearly everything in the game besides banging my head against an Aern that can't be killed, and I've yet to see that be the case.

I have done basically everything you can do end game many times over on various jobs. I will personally hand you a pearl to iiZerg with no application necessary if you think you could come into this LS and sucessfully replace me with your narrow minded views on COR. That is, if you're willing to server transfer. Obviously you're set in your ways and I'm set in mine and I dont see either of us convincing the other through words and opinions. Which is why I'll give you the opportunity to prove me wrong in front of all my peers. Just let me know and I'll make those arrangements. Keep in mind, if you fail, you will be kicked. So to avoid wasting 3 months of your time, I wouldnt suggest taking me up on that offer unless you are 120% sure and confident you could do it.

Also a quick edit to your last sentence there - I don't understand why you keep bringing up people unwilling to utilize /Whm. Considering I've stated it has been my most used SJ, I must assume you're not talking about me. . .

You not so much. My argument with you was/is the playstyle of /WHM. It was more a general statement directed at the general COR community who shuns a CORs versatility so they can pretend they're a RNG.

Yes... You can still TP and WS as /Whm... And it's not shit MP for what you're using it for.

Just because you can doesnt mean you should. I mean, I could show up in a full MND set with an O.bow/Machine Xbow and holy bolts on my RNG but would it really be a good idea? Not only would you be an ineffective DD but now you're an ineffective support healer too. I would think /DNC would be the better choice.