COR/WHM

[nitsuj]

I find it interesting that people honestly believe that there is such a thing as too much MP for COR/WHM.

When I'm COR/WHM in Dynamis, I have no problem whatsoever using up all of my MP curing everyone in my alliance. A C3 that I cast is a Regen3 or C4 that a WHM doesn't have to stand up to cast. If you really, truly, honestly cannot find something to use your MP on, then one of two things is the case:

1) you aren't trying
2) your extra healing is completely unnecessary and you shouldn't be /mage at all

As for /WHM vs. /RDM: sorry, I just don't see the point of subbing RDM in most events. The question is, what kind of mobs would compel me NOT to melee?

a) mobs with pervasive AoE debuffs
b) mobs with heavy AoE damage

If it's a), -na will be relevant. If it's b), Curaga will be relevant. If it's neither, why would I sub mage at all?

I'm also a fan of MP on COR/WHM during events like that. However, I just wanted to chime in that /RDM is mainly taking sacrifices for Magic Attack Bonus. But I'm sure you knew that.

[FailureMidgard]

Duh.

Most Blms always ask me for warlocks over wizards.


You know how to read a wiki, thats nice, and if you have a brd and cor(In a non-merit setting since cor should never be /whm in merits) then the brd most likely will have /whm, so you can go /rdm or melee sub. Unless of course your main healers and Brds are incredible slackers, in which case you should replace those not make the cor gimp.

Every single time a group has asked me to /whm, /rdm would have been a better choice, every time.

In einherjar to start, bards should be party hopping as Thorny said...I'm not sure what subjob I personally think a cor should be using, but it depends on how good your white mages are. Since the addition of Esuna, I find /whm on both cors and bards in situations such as Ein to be much less useful than before. That being said, your SJ (and thus role) should still be tailored to the group your with. If you have a group with amazing DD, and a little light on support, you should be /whm helping with support. If you have a group with special bus DD but some amazing support, then you should probably be helping with the DD aspect more. I think any corsair who comes here and says one way or the other way is the only way to play in Einherjar is completely off base.

On other fights, like Wyrm, Ouryu /rdm is garbage. A corsair (or bard) with 400-500 MP can solo heal a full party from all the wings/air aoes/touchdown/etc, and max MP -does- help, as it's a rather short fight (or in the case of Ouryu, short bursts that can be intensive followed by long downtimes).

As for merits, I think corsairs vastly overrate their subjobs. Without a doubt, I want a corsair that is up there trying to do some damage. I get a little annoyed when they sit back and afk as /whm, but that being said, if melee aren't all Hassoing and getting instant erases (I guarantee you they aren't in your parties), you're vastly overrating what your damage does for the party compared to the support you could be offering. Really, again, it's going to be based on the party, and 1 sj is not superior on it's own.

[Mizango]

This thread just keeps getting better.

[Cesaria]

A nice chunk of starting MP is always handy (hell I carry around a stupid MP set for BST/WHM cos it's essentially a free reraise and set of buffs)... and anyone who doesn't have <stnpc> macros for sleeping stuff deserves to be taken outside, put against a wall and shot repeatedly... with either bullets or flying playing cards - your free choice.

One of the things I love about COR is the versitility of what it can do - why limit that?

[Mizango]

anyone who doesn't have <stnpc> macros for sleeping stuff deserves to be taken outside, put against a wall and shot repeatedly... with either bullets or flying playing cards - your free choice.

Agreed 100%.

Unfortunately this is from pure experience and endless head scratching on my part. It is a sad sight to behold.

One of the things I love about COR is the versitility of what it can do - why limit that?

Correct again.

[Spider-Dan]

As for merits, I think corsairs vastly overrate their subjobs. Without a doubt, I want a corsair that is up there trying to do some damage. I get a little annoyed when they sit back and afk as /whm, but that being said, if melee aren't all Hassoing and getting instant erases (I guarantee you they aren't in your parties), you're vastly overrating what your damage does for the party compared to the support you could be offering.

Ironically enough, COR/DNC addresses all of your concerns. It's primarily up front dealing damage, and has a truly instant erase.

Really, again, it's going to be based on the party, and 1 sj is not superior on it's own.

I tend to disagree. Unless you are in a DD DD COR BRD BRD mage configuration, I'd say that /DNC is the superior merit SJ, particularly for birds/wivres. But that's me.

[FailureMidgard]

Ironically enough, COR/DNC addresses all of your concerns. It's primarily up front dealing damage, and has a truly instant erase.


I tend to disagree. Unless you are in a DD DD COR BRD BRD mage configuration, I'd say that /DNC is the superior merit SJ, particularly for birds/wivres. But that's me.

If I had to pick a SJ for meriting, I would say /dnc is the most universal, sure. But that being said, I do merit a decent bit with 2dd, 3buff, mage (2cor brd or 2brd cor), and while you say you disagree, your next statement then says "well except different situations do change things".

Also, I'd like to point out that the only thing cor/dnc has that cor/whm doesn't is a resource that is renewed by meleeing. If your only goal is to erase attack downs or elegy or something, sure, /whm has a cast time, but it also has a shorter recast time (if you want to erase yourself after 1 DD, say). You -can- play cor/whm nearly the same as you play cor/dnc, people just don't...

[Tulun]

what a Cor subs should be based on the task and the composition of the party (/ alliance(s)), no? The situation matters.

I don't see why I shouldn't sub rdm or blu on something like Kirin, for example.

[Thorny]

what a Cor subs should be based on the task and the composition of the party (/ alliance(s)), no? The situation matters.

I don't see why I shouldn't sub rdm or blu on something like Kirin, for example.

because kirin shouldn't be alive more than 3 quick draws and with 6 SV songs you can put in 2-3k damage /war

[Spider-Dan]

If I had to pick a SJ for meriting, I would say /dnc is the most universal, sure. But that being said, I do merit a decent bit with 2dd, 3buff, mage (2cor brd or 2brd cor), and while you say you disagree, your next statement then says "well except different situations do change things".

Speaking as a COR, the amount of 3-support parties that I've been in is so vanishingly small that I don't particularly consider it to be significant. Using not-/DNC in 3-support parties is about as relevant as using /NIN and pulling in a 1-support party (and I've done the latter a hell of a lot more than the former), yet I doubt anyone is going to tout the importance of COR/NIN pulling anytime soon.

The point that I'm getting at is that the ratio of time spent talking about non-DNC SJs in meripo to time that CORs should be subbing DNC in meripo is incredibly, obscenely out-of-whack. If you are talking about meriting on COR, /DNC should be the starting point, with other SJs being the Rare Situational Exception.

Also, I'd like to point out that the only thing cor/dnc has that cor/whm doesn't is a resource that is renewed by meleeing.

Incorrect. Outside of the little things like Accuracy Up trait and Desperate Flourish/Steps, there are 2 other major differences:

1) +MP gear for COR/WHM directly conflicts with damage-dealing gear; COR/DNC can wear exactly the same gear as any other SJ (and swap for CHR on waltzes if you are really serious) with no penalty whatsoever

2) COR/WHM needs refresh to maintain an MP pool, which means that you either need to try to time Evoker's Roll on yourself (I personally almost never even use Evoker's, so...) or run back for Ballad; in either case, you lose DD buffs. The third option is to ask for Refresh from RDM, which is certainly viable but less self-sufficient than TP.

I'm also fairly certain that Drain Samba II is vastly more time-efficient than anything /WHM has in their arsenal, but I've never done the math on it.

[Starr]

Last time I did Greater Colibri 2boxing WAR and COR/WHM I did 14000 HP curing and the RDM only did 16000, Refresh and occasional Evoker's Roll is plenty of MP.

[DeathbySnoosnoo]

You -can- play cor/whm nearly the same as you play cor/dnc, people just don't...

So War/whm would be that same as war/sam or war/nin? that basically the logic you are using...

On other fights, like Wyrm, Ouryu /rdm is garbage. A corsair (or bard) with 400-500 MP can solo heal a full party from all the wings/air aoes/touchdown/etc, and max MP -does- help, as it's a rather short fight (or in the case of Ouryu, short bursts that can be intensive followed by long downtimes).

Again, Sam/whm is better than sam/war ? Why wouldn't Cor/Rng be more viable than Cor/whm, oh right, it would be fine.

what a Cor subs should be based on the task and the composition of the party (/ alliance(s)), no? The situation matters.

Yes it should, and 9/10 any other sub is better than /whm, and merits there is no reason for a cor to /whm, ever, its for certain events where you lack -na power, thats it, and only it.

Last time I did Greater Colibri 2boxing WAR and COR/WHM I did 14000 HP curing and the RDM only did 16000, Refresh and occasional Evoker's Roll is plenty of MP.

Now do that and just keep up drain samba 2 and you'll cure more with less effort and contribute more to damage.

[Shinryuu]

Drain Samba doesn't work in the IDEAL party of 2x melee, DD COR, DNC, BRD, RDM but ya in any other setting it's kinda nice.

[Spider-Dan]

Last time I did Greater Colibri 2boxing WAR and COR/WHM I did 14000 HP curing and the RDM only did 16000, Refresh and occasional Evoker's Roll is plenty of MP.

And you did this with no MP gear while you were DDing, right?

Since you have the stats on cure totals, I presume you also have the stats on damage output...

[Fallyn]

Gear for MP/QD and sub /RDM or /WHM or whatever, use -na's and cures and just QD every time its up for some dmg, and enjoy ezmode.

[edit] didn't read topic.

[Starr]

And you did this with no MP gear while you were DDing, right?

Since you have the stats on cure totals, I presume you also have the stats on damage output...

Yeah like I can engage twice and WS on time twice etc <_<

[Spider-Dan]

Yeah like I can engage twice and WS on time twice etc <_<

Are you being sarcastic, or what?

No one disputes that a COR/WHM with Light Staff and full MP gear can perform admirably as a secondary healer. This is not in contention. What is under dispute is the idea that a COR/WHM can step up wearing full DD gear and still perform just as well as a COR/WHM that's geared for straight healing.

[Corrderio]

Wow I'm surprised this didn't turn into a flame war.

[Starr]

Are you being sarcastic, or what?

No one disputes that a COR/WHM with Light Staff and full MP gear can perform admirably as a secondary healer. This is not in contention. What is under dispute is the idea that a COR/WHM can step up wearing full DD gear and still perform just as well as a COR/WHM that's geared for straight healing.

I was just wondering why you were acting like it's hard to keep MP up lol, it's not.

[Eleven19]

seriously

I think there should be a test before you're able to unlock cor.