COR/WHM

[Corrderio]

/WHM is fine under some conditions, though yeah I really don't like people that sub it in EXP PTs

[Starr]

This is how to play COR:

http://i79.photobucket.com/albums/j152/VioletUK/fd.jpg

(I am Darkstarr and Kaitos, ignore Boggs in the parse)

[Mizango]

lol

[Jak]

Seeing the parses and knowing I could get by with very good XP.. sometimes I wish I had been a cheap ass Cor and saved millions of gil not spamming barrage and WSs.. and just cured my way to capped merits and 75. And I'm really surprised this topic is still going on.. Here's to hoping Cor makes it in some form to FFXIV.

[Mizango]

Here's to hoping Cor makes it in some form to FFXIV.

Exactly what I am waiting to see, If not then idk.

[FailureMidgard]

Speaking as a COR, the amount of 3-support parties that I've been in is so vanishingly small that I don't particularly consider it to be significant. Using not-/DNC in 3-support parties is about as relevant as using /NIN and pulling in a 1-support party (and I've done the latter a hell of a lot more than the former), yet I doubt anyone is going to tout the importance of COR/NIN pulling anytime soon.

The point that I'm getting at is that the ratio of time spent talking about non-DNC SJs in meripo to time that CORs should be subbing DNC in meripo is incredibly, obscenely out-of-whack. If you are talking about meriting on COR, /DNC should be the starting point, with other SJs being the Rare Situational Exception.


Incorrect. Outside of the little things like Accuracy Up trait and Desperate Flourish/Steps, there are 2 other major differences:

1) +MP gear for COR/WHM directly conflicts with damage-dealing gear; COR/DNC can wear exactly the same gear as any other SJ (and swap for CHR on waltzes if you are really serious) with no penalty whatsoever

2) COR/WHM needs refresh to maintain an MP pool, which means that you either need to try to time Evoker's Roll on yourself (I personally almost never even use Evoker's, so...) or run back for Ballad; in either case, you lose DD buffs. The third option is to ask for Refresh from RDM, which is certainly viable but less self-sufficient than TP.

I'm also fairly certain that Drain Samba II is vastly more time-efficient than anything /WHM has in their arsenal, but I've never done the math on it.

You misunderstand what I'm saying. I specifically said if your only goal was to erase an attack down fast, and didn't need to cure, then /whm would let you erase yourself faster. I fully realize the difference, and stated the different that you then elaborated on, that has -0- to do with my random side comment.

I was also unaware that dnc got an accuracy bonus trait, my bad. My point was, if you're just doing a few -nas, and curing is covered, you DONT NEED MP GEAR. You can DD as well as a cor/dnc if you just wear the gear for it, outside of the 10 missing accuracy.

So War/whm would be that same as war/sam or war/nin? that basically the logic you are using...

Again, Sam/whm is better than sam/war ? Why wouldn't Cor/Rng be more viable than Cor/whm, oh right, it would be fine.

You are really bad at reading. War/nin is identical to war/whm on the dmg front, however. Which is almost identical to war/dnc. Try again.

You -can- play cor/whm nearly the same as you play cor/dnc, people just don't...

That was my statement, though before it's taken out of context again, that is if healing is covered and you just want more -na access. Evoker's roll can cover -na cost, and /whm can -na more often than /dnc can. Period.

[Spider-Dan]

You misunderstand what I'm saying. I specifically said if your only goal was to erase an attack down fast, and didn't need to cure, then /whm would let you erase yourself faster.

I suppose this is technically true if you presume that COR would always be erasing someone else first. Given that (as COR) my WS are almost certainly going to outdamage anyone but RNG or Mandau THF, I generally just erase whoever has the most TP (including myself); the second erase is not really as important at that point because if more than two people have TP (one erased by me, one erased by mage), the mob is almost certainly dead. So the recast on second erase is really a non-factor.

Erase is also a really bad example to pick, as it has the same base recast as Healing Waltz (15s) but takes 2.5s to cast. You need an extremely robust haste setup for COR (and haste spell, and double march) for Erase not to lose.

I was also unaware that dnc got an accuracy bonus trait, my bad. My point was, if you're just doing a few -nas, and curing is covered, you DONT NEED MP GEAR. You can DD as well as a cor/dnc if you just wear the gear for it, outside of the 10 missing accuracy.

Two things:

1) The accuracy difference is actually more than 10. Desparate Flourish is Evasion-10, and Quickstep is Evasion-8. So, speaking strictly for myself (and ignoring the benefits of the above to the rest of the DDs), for a cost of 10 TP, COR/DNC will get ACC+28 advantage over /WHM (provided that you wanted to use Quickstep over Box Step).

2) If curing is covered, and all that is needed is "a few -nas," why sub WHM at all? The only merit mob I can think of that would require serious -na spamming (wyvern) is a nightmare for COR for completely unrelated reasons (Dispelling Wind).

This is without mentioning the issue of COR/DNC walking all over DD-geared COR/WHM in healing (Samba will ensure that almost by itself).

[FailureMidgard]

I suppose this is technically true if you presume that COR would always be erasing someone else first. Given that (as COR) my WS are almost certainly going to outdamage anyone but RNG or Mandau THF, I generally just erase whoever has the most TP (including myself); the second erase is not really as important at that point because if more than two people have TP (one erased by me, one erased by mage), the mob is almost certainly dead. So the recast on second erase is really a non-factor.

Erase is also a really bad example to pick, as it has the same base recast as Healing Waltz (15s) but takes 2.5s to cast. You need an extremely robust haste setup for COR (and haste spell, and double march) for Erase not to lose.

As I've said before double march should be the basis for all non-rng parties. The cor should also be getting hasted. There is absolutely no reason the cor shouldn't be at near capped recast. It is a corner example, but my only real point was that /whm still has a lot of offensive potential, if you choose to play it that way. You can be a -na bitch and still DD. This extends into einherjar, where there is a bigger variety of nas needed, that whm spells have little to no recast on, and evokers will still let you keep up. cor/whm can still play as a DD while adding a little support.
And uhh, I'm not sure what your cor's WSes average, but I've yet to see one that averages higher than my pentas.

Two things:

1) The accuracy difference is actually more than 10. Desparate Flourish is Evasion-10, and Quickstep is Evasion-8. So, speaking strictly for myself (and ignoring the benefits of the above to the rest of the DDs), for a cost of 10 TP, COR/DNC will get ACC+28 advantage over /WHM (provided that you wanted to use Quickstep over Box Step).

2) If curing is covered, and all that is needed is "a few -nas," why sub WHM at all? The only merit mob I can think of that would require serious -na spamming (wyvern) is a nightmare for COR for completely unrelated reasons (Dispelling Wind).

This is without mentioning the issue of COR/DNC walking all over DD-geared COR/WHM in healing (Samba will ensure that almost by itself).

I'll admit, I haven't really grouped with a good cor/dnc prob ever, was unaware how much they use steps/flourishes. I'd say they should be using boxstep though, as worthwhile DDs should be acc capped.

And yes, /dnc is vastly superior for healing, and in general. I was only saying that a cor/whm can still DD, and still has some benefits. And also, my original statement was that no 1 sj is end all be all, and you should base it on the party/event/etc.

[Kyreth]

Forgive my relative newbieness in saying this, but-

To me, it seems that /WHM vs. /DNC is a matter of what you can deliver.

Are you going to be able to generate steady TP via melee, WS as needed, etc? /DNC if you need to help keep a PT going for status/healing.

Are you going to be backline the entire time, your rolls are the primary contribution to the alliance with minimal TP gain? /WHM. Second best is better than none.

Both have their reasons, though for merits I'd go /DNC or /RNG, then /WHM in that order unless they -had- to have me offheal. Not like a single mage can't pull that off.

[Spider-Dan]

As I've said before double march should be the basis for all non-rng parties. The cor should also be getting hasted. There is absolutely no reason the cor shouldn't be at near capped recast.

Well, of specific relevance to COR/WHM is the fact that if, for whatever reason, you have a ballad on yourself, Erase is almost certainly going to be slower than Healing Waltz. So it's kind of a self-defeating proposition.

And uhh, I'm not sure what your cor's WSes average, but I've yet to see one that averages higher than my pentas.

In the party we were in, your pentas averaged ~1200; in the same party, my RNG's slugs averaged ~2000. I lost most of my COR parses a while back, but one of the few that I have left (here) has my COR at ~1600 per.

Now obviously, different parties are different (there's a SAM in my COR parse that averaged ~1400, after all), but given the drastic difference between my RNG's average and your SAM's average in the same party, and the relative difference in WS power between RNG and COR, I feel pretty comfortable in saying that my COR would likely beat your SAM in WS average at that camp.

[Bakthi]

The only issue I have with /WHM in Einherjar is that it has no defensive capabilities*, and depending on the mob, if I tried to DD as /WHM I could easily cost more resources than I contributed (and as I mentioned before, you can't always avoid AoEs either, even if choosing not to melee on certain mobs). COR always seems to die to AoE damage more often than any other job (without shadows). Again, I'm sure it can work well depending on your LS, be excellent to each other, etc. I wouldn't use /DNC in T1-3 Einherjar either, particularly since it's party-limited and also has no defense (and then you HAVE to melee to support). If I could know the mobs ahead of time, I'd certainly pick from a variety of SJs, but well, it's Einherjar.

* I started looking at a MND set for Stoneskin, since some Denali and AF have MND, but...ugh. BRD was difficult, this is impossible.

[Kaishen]

Spider-Dan would you mind posting the gear you use for Slug Shot on COR? Or if you've done so elsewhere, where can I see it? That's a pretty impressive average.

[Spider-Dan]

Spider-Dan would you mind posting the gear you use for Slug Shot on COR? Or if you've done so elsewhere, where can I see it? That's a pretty impressive average.

Couple of upgrades since then, but right now:

Martial Gun/Steel Bullet
AF+1 hat
Light Gorget
Fenrir's Earring
Minuet Earring
Mirke (RATK/Snapshot)
NQ w.hands
Rajas
Jalzahn's
Amemet+1
relic belt
Pln. Seraweels
AF+1 boots

max marks/STR merits

[konoko]

I built an MP gear setup for my cor now, and so far im liking it in the events where my ls doesn't want me melee'ing on cor at all (just HNM's and einherjar really) but i would definatly not come cor/whm to merits ever, its to easy to do well as cor/rng and bust out the 1000-1200 sluggy's

[Marihoki]

I built an MP gear setup for my cor now, and so far im liking it in the events where my ls doesn't want me melee'ing on cor at all (just HNM's and einherjar really) but i would definatly not come cor/whm to merits ever, its to easy to do well as cor/rng and bust out the 1000-1200 sluggy's

>_> You should just melee anyway~

[Argettio]

>_> You should just melee anyway~

Yes because COR's melee damage is more important than your LS strategy.

You might as well tell the RDM to engage too.

[Thorny]

1000-1200 slugs in merits are way low, get more brds and sub war

[Daemonic]

1000-1200 slugs in merits are way low, get more brds and sub war

Bard and sub war in merits is alot of fun and you can push out over 2k slugs easy even without angon. On the terms of sub /whm i only really get to play cor at a few events mainly because my other jobs take priority most times, however i agree that its deff worth using in some situations for example salvage if i go cor i sub whm, its great for helping whm's on bosses with para's and the extra heals and still can melee and assist with dmg on early floors. Have yet to try /dnc thou, there is a cor in my ls with dnc high enough (myn is level 10 at the moment i'll get to it soon) and asked him to try in a merit party but insists it is a horrible sub.

Found this screenshot of /war in a merit party to for the above quote and konoko. (with angon)

[Thorny]

Found this screenshot of /war in a merit party to for the above quote

I really hope you don't think that's new or exciting to me.. lol

[Mizango]

Yes because COR's melee damage is more important than your LS strategy.

You might as well tell the RDM to engage too.

Thank you. It would seem that people don't grasp the concept of logic very well.