A message on healthcare that reaches out to conservatives in a way they understand

[Solefald]

Not true. I'm not going to derail this thread into a North/South discussion, but you'd be laughed out of any American History class for making the assertion that the South seceded because they wanted to own people. It's just not true.

I'm down for a derailment. You cannot be any more wrong. And I majored in US history, so there.

[Rhinox]

Final vote just started.

[Beckwin]

the whole idea of slavery is possible based on the notion that humans can be considered property, regardless of the owner (self or other). if humans were not considered property, then they could not be owned.

just because the austrians came along after the era of slavery and had to cover their asses with a "universal axiom" saying "well you see there's this one exception about property and exchange/contracts...." doesn't mean that the root of the problem is anything different.

[Rhinox]

its gonna be close

[Beckwin]

an interesting idea: the notion of property only came about as a result of aggression.

sort of a chicken/egg deal, but just think about it. did you need to call something yours before anyone would try to take it?

[Rhinox]

and the bill is passed

[Rhinox]

One republican voted for the House bill lol

[Kuya]

Healthcare Reform - Salon.com

House Republicans have been remarkably unified this year, sticking together on all of the big votes and ensuring that Democrats don't have any bipartisan cover whatsoever. But when the House votes on the Democrats' healthcare reform bill Saturday night, things could be different.

Multiple outlets are reporting that both sides of the aisle are lobbying aggresively to win over Rep. Joseph Cao, R-La. Cao has reportedly told colleagues he's undecided, and the White House is getting involved in the fight for his vote as a result. According to ABC News, even White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel has spoken with Cao.

Cao is in a unique position, because he's a first-term congressman who represents a heavily Democratic district. As a result, he'll have a hard time getting reelected as it is, and though the GOP base would undoubtedly rise up against him, Cao can use a little bipartisan credibility with the Democrats in his district. The only reason he was able to win election in the virst place is because he was running against Rep. William Jefferson, who was under indictment on federal corruption charges at the time of the vote; Jefferson has since been convicted on a majority of the counts against him.

Explains why.

[Melchiah]

I'm down for a derailment. You cannot be any more wrong. And I majored in US history, so there.

Derailment lite:

Slavery was a face issue, and itself was a result of another issue that is so conveniently neglected, namely economics and industrialization.

The Northern states have always been more population dense than the rural South, and as such have a greater influence in the House of Representatives. Coupled with the fact that the Southern states are a minority, the North held the advantage in the Senate as well.

All that to say this: Industrialization in the South was always opposed by the more populous North, who were already competing with lower priced European goods, specifically British manufactured goods. With the Tariff of 1824 and the Tariff of 1828, industrialization in the South was effectively quashed, and the Southern economy cemented into an agricultural focus, specifically cotton to be shipped to Northern US and European mills.

At this point, the South has little option economically or politically but to rely on huge numbers of low-cost labor to power the economic niche they've been shoe-horned into.

Summary: Economic conditions and political climates steered the South into an agricultural focused economy, with no political recourse until the Walker Tariff of 1848, which by then was too late to re-tool the economy of an entire region. Thus, the reliance of slave labor in the South was at it's core a product of the nation's political climates and economics.

Slavery was a symptom, not the disease.

[Leif]

What's all this crap about slavery?

[Rhinox]

Its about how the Liberals just enslaved americans with this new unprecedented socialist health care plan.

[Leif]

Oh, cool. Carry on.

[Beckwin]

and the bill is passed

Pelosi delivers.

now it's time for Reid to step up to the goddam plate.

[Kuya]

Unlikely.

[Beckwin]

I get the feeling I'm going to want to throttle Joe Lieberman more than I normally do, and by extension Reid for not kicking him out of the caucus.

[Beckwin]

also, I want to work on compiling a list of DNC superstars. so far I think...

Al Franken
Howard Dean
Dennis Kucinich
ALAN GRAYSON

should be included. I also am liking Rep. Grivaldo and think that Barney Frank should at least get an honorary mention for his hilarity.

[Casty]

Maybe posted, I'm not looking through 83 pages.

You rage, you lose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMdlcnK_MI4

[Kuya]

I realize that the point of the rhetoric from the Republicans is to be as big an obstacle as possible for any form of Democrat success, but it sure does strike one as foul that whilst the rhetoric of the health reform limiting choice is often invoked, Republicans (and 64 democrats) voted to do just that, limit choice, by voting for the Stupak amendment.

[Sirrus_Asura]

Sirrus, the guy who cried for 4 pages when I used slavery as an example, is using slavery as an example. Badly.

Wow, he asked what we were talking about and you used it as an excuse to rant about me. Good to know you care Finesse, guy who thinks the government is an inanimate object and throws around the word biggot and racist more then beach ball and a Nickleback Concert(Hot rooood). ~ZING

Who are you trying to win over with posts like these? Have the cool kids not let you sit with them at lunch or something?

Besides, don't even play this "I'm opposed to slavery and the like" bullshit. All I see you (And your party) doing its fighting with the republicans over who can use a gun better.

Progressive yo.




And my example was fine. It just took Rhinox a few to let it sink in.

[Rhinox]

Wow, he asked what we were talking about and you used it as an excuse to rant about me. Good to know you care Finesse, guy who thinks the government is an inanimate object and throws around the word biggot and racist more then beach ball and a Nickleback Concert(Hot rooood). ~ZING

Who are you trying to win over with posts like these? Have the cool kids not let you sit with them at lunch or something?

Besides, don't even play this "I'm opposed to slavery and the like" bullshit. All I see you (And your party) doing its fighting with the republicans over who can use a gun better.

Progressive yo.




And my example was fine. It just took Rhinox a few to let it sink in.

still hasn't sunk in. Maybe If fall on my head a few times it will sink in. Just could really care less arguing about slavery and its applications to taxes which like I said I still don't see the relevance.



How does it feel Sirrus to be essentially out anarchist by the new kid on the block?