Jailer Of Prudence - Reliable Strat

[Dominionix]

I apologise if this is posted elsewhere, I have done a search of the forums and Google and I really can't find any kind of detailed strat for Prudence. If there is one already please let me know!

We have been doing a fair few Prudence's recently, and it's not that we are not capable of killing it, because we do every time. But it always seems to be semi-zombied each time we do it (ie. a lot of people get dead). And I was wondering if anyone had a "reliable" tactic they used for killing it without wasting everyone's exp?

We have tried several methods of pulling / kiting / splitting it, some of which have worked better than others. Was wondering if anyone could give an insight in to methods they used just to make this fight a bit cleaner / safer really...

Here's some of the things we have tried:

Thief pops with powder boots on outside of the alliance, PLD/NIN Flash pulls the other half and holds it at the spawn. Thief heads for the Sealion's Den zone, hopefully getting there and zoning, or if not, getting as close as possible before wiping. The half the Thief has pulled de-aggros, wonders back, de-pops and the first half (the half being held at spawn) goes open mouth. But then the holding PLD's get raped because they don't have anything to really kite it around at it's spawn other than the bushes. Once the PLD's hit the floor, Prudence then starts his wonderful invis / warp / rip your face off nonsense and it gets messy from there...

Other is this method (see attached piccy), where the Thief (again, outside the ally), pops with powder boots on (and a pair in reserve, along with Flee ability), and Flees towards Sealion's Den (or further, sometimes even going on towards Hope). The alliance wait at the two small islands (marked with yellow dots on the map) and pull the unclaimed half off of the Thief as he passes through the green area, which they then kite around the islands. The problem with this strat is it puts the half being held by the alliance MUCH closer to the half that is wondering back, and if the Thief dies anywhere short of Sealion's Den it usually links again (which inevitably results in a mess). It also means the Thief has to flee a lot further, risking de-aggro'ing it.

Assuming it doesn't, and the pull goes well, we now have one half left in open mouth form kiting around the island (usually the one at K10/K11/L10/L11 crosshair). We can do this bit reasonably ok, but because of how hard he hits / procs Triple Attack its near impossible to stop kiting and get any decent amount of hate on it. Furthermore, when he uses Perfect Dodge and gains Flee speed, he often takes out a lot of their health (or kills them), greatly degrading the hate they have managed to build.

When the DD eventually start to chip away at it, some inevitably pull hate and get one-shotted (Triple Attacked, w/e) by it in open mouth form. If they don't the fight drags on and the mages start to build hate keeping the kiters alive and start getting hit, again, making it messy. This is the bit I mean about it not being very "clean".

I know some people manaburn one half of it once it goes in to open mouth form, but we only have around 6-7 BLM's (at most) without having to pull people from other jobs to get more. And with regards to the zerg type strats I'm told some people try, that can easily fail because of Perfect Dodge (Spirit's Within / Chi Blast zerg? lol).

I also know that some shells straight tank both halves down to a low %, kill one, then the other. The one area we really lack in (job wise) is BRD's. We only really have one reliably show for Sea, if that (again, unless we pull people off of other needed jobs like PLD). So straight tanking without double March for shadow recast is extremely difficult.

So in summary, does anyone know a way to...:
- Make the pull safer / more reliable / split them further apart to avoid risk of linking? Leaving back-up THF's in certain places?
- Once in open mouth form, a way to cleanly kill the remaining half without people getting one-shotted all over the place?
- A way to consistently do damage to the second half whilst allowing the kiting PLD's to keep hate? (In fact, one of the best forms of damage we have found on this is to use a PUP with BLM frame on, using nuke / deactivate method for hate-less nukes.)
- Have a good / well working alliance setup that isn't heavily dependant upon BRD's?

As I said, this isn't a case of us not being able to kill Prudence. More wanting to try and preserve everyone's buffer whilst killing it (because it soon disappears after 3 consecutive Prudence pops...).

Thanks in advance for any help.

[mdkuser]

Thief pops with powder boots on outside of the alliance, PLD/NIN Flash pulls the other half and holds it at the spawn. Thief heads for the Sealion's Den zone, hopefully getting there and zoning, or if not, getting as close as possible before wiping. The half the Thief has pulled de-aggros, wonders back, de-pops and the first half (the half being held at spawn) goes open mouth. But then the holding PLD's get raped because they don't have anything to really kite it around at it's spawn other than the bushes. Once the PLD's hit the floor, Prudence then starts his wonderful invis / warp / rip your face off nonsense and it gets messy from there...

we do this but with a pld/war and rdm/nin kiters, they kite around a bush near the spawn. 2 healers and rest BLM. its real easy we don'treally have any trouble. Your BLMs need to damage it until it has like 10% HP left, before it opens its mouth or it will be a slaughter lol.

[rithridan]

My shell always kills the open mouth Prudence at the sunken tree near the 3 Quasilum a little north of where you put those yellow dots. It's incredibly easy to kite Prudence around that tree because of his pathing.

[Alibeemac]

We have the ally set up with one spot in tank pt. We have a 2nd outside PT with 2 PLD WHM RNG. One of the PLD pops it, the RNG shadowbinds one, the PLD flashes other and drops PT with hate on that one, gets invited to main ally and they nuke it down with BLMs while kiting it round the bush where it can't hit the PLD.

The one the RNG bound, the 2nd PLD flashes for hate and the 3 remaining people kite it far away to another bush and kite it round until the 1st main ally has is at 15%. RNG Shadowbinds again and the 3 people run back to main ally. PLD flashes it when it unbinds and arrives at camp and drops pt again and invited to main ally. Kite round bush and nuke down again.

Easy and very little death unless a stupid BLM can't resist and overnukes.

[Daiiawn]

The way we do it (usually takes ~5 minutes). Thf pops out of party with powders, flee's to SLD (or even to JoL + die works, but be sure not to do that if anyone is killing jol as you can easily mpk them if you die as they are -gaing adds).

Pld in MA flashes 2nd copy of pru. Once thf is over 50" away from MA, we start to damage 2nd copy. Take it down to about 10%~ and hold it. Once thf has deaggroed, they let us know. Approx 3m after thf says deaggro, 1st copy depops and 2nd copy opens its mouth, at which point all our blms am2 it to kill it.

Pretty much as easy as its going to get, only have to deal with open mouth pru for the time it takes am2 to cast. If you cant hold the closed mouthed form once you have it at 10%, you have bigger problems than strat.

[Nal]

I personally duo/trio prudence with the THF losing one of them and this works very well, there's another fun strat I've used in the past though:

2 tanks, one on each Prudence, fight right next to each other and tank like any other mob.
BLMs use tier1/2 AGA while watching hate. When both are at low % , kill one then finish the other.


Both strats work well and make this an incredibly easy fight.


Also, anyone with 12% Movement speed can infinitely kite Prudence around a bush on the water, south of the ??? - there's a shark roaming, but unless you're trying to you won't aggro him.

[Foustian]

At the island directly northeast of your northeast yellow dot, there is a bush on the northwestern edge of it. That's where I usually kite Prudence. Its easy for anyone to kite him around there even during Flee, as he takes a really wide path around parts of it. This is the bush that I'm pretty sure Rithridan is talking about.

6 BLMs is far more than enough to nuke down Prudence, even in open-mouth form. If they can, have them sub NIN, as this is much better than Stoneskin considering how hard he hits. Assuming your BLMs are decent at kiting and don't stand around after they nuke waiting to see if they took hate, he shouldn't be getting off more than 1 attack round before they run out of range.

There are also some bushes much closer to Prudence's spawn point that can be used for kiting, however they are extremely close to sharks and possibly a UFO, so there's a good chance of aggro there.

[Hanyoko]

I normally have a rdm/nin and nin/??? as the kite team. rdm pops with powder up (solo to ensure that only one JoP is claimed red). Run off SW to that first sunken bush and kite around there till JoP's initial flee wears off. Invite the nin; we build some hate (main alliance holds but does not damage their JoP)
After the flee wears take it to the two bushes at the entrance of the hope rubious crystal structure thing. Making sure to let the alliance know when we enter the Ul area so they can start damaging their JoP. Kite it on those two bushes till main alliance gets it to 5-10%. Run to the Updraft or die trying (and into safehold to ensure total claim loss). Depops, other opens mouth and dies.

[Byrthnoth]

We put two PLD/WARs up against Prudence and -aga'ed them down, with one being a little further down from a volley of single target nukes. After the first one dies, we'd wait for the other to open its mouth and then nuke it.

Against the single open-mouth one, our problems were always more that the PLDs would lose hate rather than die. Generally I'd come to Prudence BLM/NIN so I could take an attack round if it came to that and I'd hit my damage down macro each time after I nuked. I probably died half the time, but Prudence is pretty bad ass and I was always activating my Sorc ring as a taru so I had about two hits of HP.

Another tip that sounds stupid but is useful:
Keep Bio II on Prudence. That way he can use his Erasega move instead of a nastier one. Also lowers his attack, for all that helps.

[ZhiGaruda]

I have a very, very simple strategy that you may find useful.

Step 1: Kick PLD's who suck.

Step 2: Get a good PLD/RDM.

Step 3:

BLMs use tier1/2 AGA while watching hate. When both are at low % , kill one then finish the other.

Very, very simple. I tried using 2 PLD's a couple times, but as far as I can tell they have shared hate to an extent, and so I always end up tanking both of them after the first Sentinel anyways. Save the spot and have that extra PLD come BLM

[Chaz]

Kite the open mouth copy around the bushes that aren't near the tree in the Prudence area.

If those bushes aren't enough for your tanks to survive kiting indefinitely then you're doing it wrong. If done correctly you can actually "hang" Prudence up so it doesn't ever even make it to the same side of the bush as your tank. Try to keep the kiting to just one tank at a time so they aren't fighting for hate and getting owned by direction changes.

Before the depop, we usually go with PLD/NINs. With Reprisal/Sentinel it really isn't that hard to not die and with double March its surprisingly not that difficult to keep shadows up a fair amount of the time. Normally, by the time the second copy depops, our tanks have a good amount of hate and the remaining copy is ~50%HP.

ZhiGaruda: On the shared hate, we used to use two tanks for the "Kill them both simultaneously" method and I was often the second tank. For the first five minutes or so, you can keep the hate separated, but as the fight goes on they both attack the same target and its hard to stop it at that point.

Small Tip: If your LS, like mine, has some trigger happy BLMs...make them stand separate from the RDM/WHM/BRDs. In the event they get AOE'd, at least your support team doesn't die with them.

[Seanr]

I'm not trigger happy >_> I didn't even die.

[yotevol]

I am the LS Leader of LavitzReborn.
We're not an elitest shell or anything, but we seem to do well.

For JoP, our tanks were PLD/WAR and we had 2 of them.
For safety, we fought with an entire alliance, with this setup:

Tank Party:
PLD/WAR x2
WHM x2
BRD
RDM

Pullers:
THF x1-2
RNG x1

For our first pull with a PLD/WAR, we had a THF outside the alliance and with powder boots pull. We also had the THF in a party with an additional RNG to shadowbind and continue to pull to zone if the THF had trouble.

The tank loaded defensively. BRD went double Minne on PLD, RDM had max Phalanx II on PLD, Tav Tacos, and w/e other tricks the PLDs could pull out.

It worked wonderfully and the JoP dupe depopped without trouble, and while the PLD tanked without damaging the JoP he took minimal damage. Luckily, our WHM's Regen III was max meritted and covered almost all the damage JoP put out.

I don't recommend going PLD/NIN. The triple attack and other abilities strip shadows way to fast. Turtle defense is the best for this straight tank fight.

I hope the attached strategy helps with the picture.

Yote

[hypnotizd]

BLMs use tier1/2 AGA while watching hate. When both are at low % , kill one then finish the other.

This is the strategy I always wanted to use. The sea ls I was in insisted that we separate the two copies and just go all out nuking one to kill it as soon as possible. This fails as it either

1) Goes invisible and rapes whoever did the most damage
2) Gets enough TP to do its AoE stun/rape session.

Either way, we always ended up with multiple deaths and its not very clean.

Having two kiters (or one if you're good) kite both around a bush and maintain hate while their HP is picked off by Tier1/2's is obviously the best way to avoid unnecessary deaths.

[Thorny]

Million ways to do it, favorite is to depop one with a thf or rdm sac and have a few blm/nin kill the other by bush. RDM x2 can duo it with a single death, it's really not a difficult fight in the least.

[ZhiGaruda]

I usually have a BRD giving 2x Minne, Pescatora for food, and full turtle build for this fight. I do /RDM because I got it like that, but another option could be PLD/BLU for Cocoon and a fully merit'd Phalanx 2. Of course PLD/WAR for Defender would work as well. I never found anything other than /RDM necessary, as job changing is tedious for me. I tank most things in Sea /RDM, so it fits.

Taco's should be fine, as stated above keep Bio2 on them 100% of the fight, and you shouldn't have any super 'OSH-' moments.

[Dominionix]

Ok, thank you for all the responses. I think I've sussed the main areas we have been getting wrong, but some of the things you guys have said have contradicted what we thought / others have said, so just to be clear:

First off, I think when we have been kiting it, we have been doing so in the wrong places. It follows a near enough straight line around those islands I marked on the map, and its very difficult for the kiters to gain any kind of lead on it without taking a lot of bashing along the way (which in turn decreases their hate / means more hate and curing for the healers). We'll have to give the bushes a go, the pathing sounds a lot more "off" for JoP around those and much easier on the kiters.

Second, and this I think would make it a thousand times easier, but is where some of your strats seem to differ. Daiiawn, you said:

Once thf is over 50" away from MA, we start to damage 2nd copy. Take it down to about 10%~ and hold it. Once thf has deaggroed, they let us know. Approx 3m after thf says deaggro, 1st copy depops and 2nd copy opens its mouth, at which point all our blms am2 it to kill it.

Meaning you are starting damage as soon as one of the copies is out of sight range of the other (or thereabouts). Yet in Yotevol's attached strategy picture, it says:

Keep tank alive an NO damage while waiting for the Thief's pull to depop.

Implying that you, as we have been doing, keep the second (held) copy at 100% HP until it goes to open mouth form?

This is the bit we have struggled with... We were under the impression that the second copy (the one being held by the PLD, not the one being Flee'd to zone) could not take -ANY- damage prior to the other one depop'ing, or the other would gain alliance hate and rush back to assist it once the puller died / zoned (if not sooner if the alliance hate was greater than the pullers)? Can the held copy be damaged before the THF's one depops without the other linking and coming back? Is damage / hate caused to the held copy not detected by the kited copy once it is a certain distance away from its pair? If that is the case, then this fight should be easy from now on!

We had no issues straight tanking the closed mouth form, and if I can get SAM/THF's to TA/WS on to tanks for hate while the BLM's nuke, I don't see us having any issues at all. Unless, of course, the pull goes wrong.

Which brings me to my last question... Yotevol, your strat picture implies the second half is straight tanked, even once it goes to open mouth form from 100% HP? How? Is it even possible to straight tank one copy of Prudence in open mouth form from 100% HP without the healers pulling too much hate cure bombing the tank?

[yotevol]

"Implying that you, as we have been doing, keep the second (held) copy at 100% HP until it goes to open mouth form?

This is the bit we have struggled with... We were under the impression that the second copy (the one being held by the PLD, not the one being Flee'd to zone) could not take -ANY- damage prior to the other one depop'ing, or the other would gain alliance hate and rush back to assist it once the puller died / zoned (if not sooner if the alliance hate was greater than the pullers)? Can the held copy be damaged before the THF's one depops without the other linking and coming back? Is damage / hate caused to the held copy not detected by the kited copy once it is a certain distance away from its pair? If that is the case, then this fight should be easy from now on!

We had no issues straight tanking the closed mouth form, and if I can get SAM/THF's to TA/WS on to tanks for hate while the BLM's nuke, I don't see us having any issues at all. Unless, of course, the pull goes wrong.

Which brings me to my last question... Yotevol, your strat picture implies the second half is straight tanked, even once it goes to open mouth form from 100% HP? How? Is it even possible to straight tank one copy of Prudence in open mouth form from 100% HP without the healers pulling too much hate cure bombing the tank?"

My linkshell has the PLD kite the JoP around the bush, while we wait. He keeps hate by curing himself a lot, provoke, flash and the usual stuff. The WHMs draw very little hate, compared to the PLD, using mainly Regen III. While kiting around the bush and waiting for the first to depop, the PLD only really needs refresh.

We tried having the PLD straight tank while the THF pulled and have the WHMs cure. You are right, big problem with hate issues. But, with double Minne, Phalanx II, buff food, Regen III, Refresh and whatnot, it wasn't that difficult to hold out 3-5 min while waiting for the first to depop.

Yote

[Daiiawn]

Dont need to wait to do damage, as long as they are over 50" apart, the copy being kited to depop will not warp to the person the copy you are killing has hate on. Depending on how stupid people are being with hate, we usually have it at 10-15% around the time the kited copy loses aggro/kills kiter.

We have done ~15 JoP kills with this strat (previously we kited one copy while killing first). We always have one person (often me) telling people when they can start damage and we have never had issues with the 2nd copy coming back once we start damage.

Doing it this way, like i say, you only have to deal with open mouthed pru for 10%, which is basically a volley of nukes, easy stuff.

[Meat]

Can he hit for 10 with an average -pdt set and phalanx 2?