non-Tav CoP Dynamis small man questions

[dantaro]

Thought about putting this in the "random question" thread, but whatever.

I've been doing a lot of looking on both BG and other sites trying to find any info on 18 man non-Tav CoP wins/farming. While I know the City/Ice zones well, I've only ever done CoP with larger groups (30-36) and never as shell leader. Now that I've been leading a small man group (and have tried a few non-tav CoP zones with. . . less than steller results) I find that I need any and all additional info on these zones as I can get.

So yeah, can anyone (or any group of people, whatever) shed some light on if running the zones for win with 16-22 is possible, and any strategies I might look into? Lest I get blammed for it, I did try the search function on BG, and scanned through what was the "event" board prior to the merger. If there were previous threads on the subject I'll gladly take any links to them and be on my way @.@

Much thanks in advance for the info!

[Thorny]

get kraken or merc kris drks and chainstuns, collect wins

[mdkuser]

So yeah, can anyone (or any group of people, whatever) shed some light on if running the zones for win with 16-22 is possible, and any strategies I might look into? Lest I get blammed for it, I did try the search function on BG, and scanned through what was the "event" board prior to the merger. If there were previous threads on the subject I'll gladly take any links to them and be on my way @.@

Much thanks in advance for the info!

It's very easy to win the three zones and farm with 3 parties or less. The DDs don't even need to be elite, just decent DDs that know how to deal dmg ( read: wear maximum haste gear!!). The bosses aren't very strong once weakned tbh, and with chain stun and a three-bard soulvoice, 5-6 DDs will take them down very fast.

[Korremar]

What they said.

Also, know the zones well. Know exactly what you HAVE to kill to do what you have to do; there are a lot of things in CoP zones you can skip and have no problem at all.

Valkurm: Send 2 teams of 3 to two of the flies; RDM BLM BLM works great I find. The rest of the alliance moves to manticore sands and kills the fly there. Rendezvous a little past the trees where the crabs/gobs/sheep are in Valk, pull and kill the couple of quad statues there/in the tunnel just past it while 1-2 people go and pull Nantina. Kill it, move back across manticore sands to the boss. Tanks set up against the gate behind CC, DDs on the opposite side of her, mages in the trees to the east. Zerg her, farm, profit. Only ~12 mobs before boss; should be able to reach her easily in under 30min with 1 alliance.

Qufim: Kill the southern bats. Main alliance goes around west and kills the kraken NM, water ele if it aggros, and the quadavs heading north. 1-2 people check all the ???s that the main alliance won't run past, and meet back together with the main alliance when they're done; usually they're done checking all their points by the time the MA is on the quadav stats. Run past the tower, avoiding the gobs/snolls/ice ele. Kill the rocs, camp just inside the cave to Behemoth's Dominion. Kill the 2 gob statues there; have 1 person go pull the golem NM. Kill it. Go back out, build TP on the Ice Elemental. Have 1 person sac pull all the gob statues around Antaeus; make sure all gobs are finished popping before someone else grabs Antaeus off of them. Run past the alliance, don't stop inside them or Antaeus will use a ranged AoE. Zerg, profit. ~20 mobs before the boss; should be able to reach him easily in under 40min with 1 alliance.

Buburimu: Send 2 people to scout the ???s for SJ. Main alliance kills Aitvaras, then moves to the east of the line of quadavs containing the WHM. Sac pull the quadavs N/NE, kill the WHM NM, move back towards Mhaura. SJ should be unlocked by now. Move to the beach where Stollenwurm is; you can ignore him, or kill him if he makes you uncomfortable. Have 1 of the SJ scouters pull Tarasca, then Barong; DDs fight them on the ramp leading to the beach by Stollenwurm. Mages stay on top of the cliff to be out of AoE range. Other scouter should be looking for Apocalyptic Beast while those two dragons are killed. Once they're dead, pull AB to the same spot. Zerg, profit. 4-5 mobs before boss; should easily be able to do this in under 20min with 1 alliance.

[Osede]

we usually did with around 22-26ppl. Qufim, bubu are easy once you get used to.

Just that we seldom doing valk since I hate valk, especially looking for those flies to unlock sj, and the sac for fairy. However, you can literalily farm valk without killing boss thought.

[Rampagesama]

the sac for fairy

Skip Fairy Ring: Fairy Ring DMG Dealt??

[cdgreg]

We win all 3 on a regular basis with 20ish barring the occasional charmga on valk boss that can't be stopped. Here is a thread discussing and describing our first qufim win since it was the toughest to plan for.

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/67085...n-20-24-a.html

[Arcien]

Maybe this unrelated question, have you tried Dyna-tav or you just don't have enough info to do that area yet?

[Argettio]

My shell does CoP zones with 20-25 people and we have won all 3.

You don't need m.kris/KC DRKs (although they would help a lot).

As has been said, learn the paths and the NMs you need to kill to weaken the boss. Have at least 2 RDM/DRK with a chainspell order (we take 3 to Valk), assign an SV rotation before entering.

With Bubu, you need to time the pull of the boss with the SV rotation, this can take some practice. The first time we tried we popped SV too early and songs were wearing before the mob was dead. But that's the sort of thing that you learn by trying.

As with any zerg, the longer the mob is alive the more chance you have wiping (especially in Valk with charmga) so make sure you bring your best set of DDs and make sure they are clear on exactly how nuts you want them to go.

[Eldelphia]

Certainly see no reason why you couldn't beat Bubu and Qufim with less than 18. Skip Fairy Ring Dant, for Valkurm, frees up a ton of time. If it's going to take you a while to kill the Boss, just take extra CS stun.

If you want a chat, I'm happy to answer any questions I can, you really shouldn't have any problems but talk to Berd, he ran this zone a lot. We just beat Valk with 20-24

Also a small group of BLMs can nuke down a fly for Valk, one of the best tips we were given. We sent a party of 4 out to nuke one fly, whilst the other 2 were being found.

[dantaro]

Maybe this unrelated question, have you tried Dyna-tav or you just don't have enough info to do that area yet?

Not enough members have Tav access. This is due mostly to my reluctance to do CoP zones for the past year (roughly the age of the shell) as I never had to information to feel comfortable doing it. The shell should be capable of doing any CoP zone, I just need to learn all the pulls and strategies behind them.


So the vibe I'm getting is that 18 should be fine clearing zones for win, as long as Ihave my DD go balls-to-the-walls. Good to know!

@Eldel Yeah, I have talked to Berd about it in the past, but I figured getting any advice I can would be nice. I'll probably ask you some questions if I see you around in game sometime soon.


Thanks to everyone who has responded thus far though. You've all been very helpful! Any further advice would be welcome

[Eldelphia]

Not enough members have Tav access. This is due mostly to my reluctance to do CoP zones for the past year (roughly the age of the shell)

You can do Bubu in your sleep. I'd say Qufim might be tough but depends on how good your pullers are and how sensible your peeps are. You have some good peeps, I'm sure you'll be fine.

[dantaro]

You can do Bubu in your sleep. I'd say Qufim might be tough but depends on how good your pullers are and how sensible your peeps are. You have some good peeps, I'm sure you'll be fine.

Considering I do almost all the pulling (barring sacks) on WHM/NIN we'll see how it goes. If I need to have Aiki pull on THF for CoP i will, but I've never had any problems pulling the normal zones on WHM/NIN.

[Minihex]

Having pulled all of the mentioned zones on blm/nin or cor/nin with the numbers you are talking about it's all doable.

Bubu: Can be done successfully with 14. The above poster has the NM and dragons in exact order we used. One quick note is that realistically the only thing you need to chainspell is if it uses chainspell or manafront. Invincible through 100 fists although usually it will have used it by the time it gets there.

Valk: I always preferred to pull flies to outpost using someone who can get clean pulls. With /ra or stun you can get back to outpost comfortable without fly catching up and as long as you are careful about pathing should come clean. Takes a little longer but it gives you alot of space if someone links for a peeler to take the fly. I would definately kill Nantina since the charm move invariably results in a wipe if it uses it. Can win without killing fairy ring but bear in mind that a missed stun will hurt a whole lot more if it gets through. Cannot stress enough the importance of killing it fast enough and a good CSS on it. Even with both you can still get randomly screwed by CC. Whms positioned for quick benediction helps, oh and make sure no one is standing where repops spawn at.

Quifim: Won with as few as 16. Agree completely with strat posted above as far as route etc goes. Couple quick notes that were cribbed from earlier threads is having a scholar pull the golem with helix spells helps alot just because he has the weird damage resistances. Also if you have a spare rdm chainspell tier 1 spells wrecks it. As far as the boss itself goes there is alot smaller wipe risk if CSS doesn't work well or if it lives beyond CSS. Shadows eat most of the AoE ws if memory serves and as long as no one outside of melee range pulls hate he isn't THAT dangerous.

Couple farming notes from my experience with that number of people in zone:

Bubu: Efts can be fun, better to take time and pull them clean because a single link usually means most if not all efts are gonna come. For cockatrice / mandys we always camped to the south split between them and pulled from whatever side was clean. Cockatrice are easily the 2nd easiest group to pull clean behind the crabs.

Valk: Nothing really to note that hasn't been already.

Qufim: Don't pull diremites, it may seem like a good idea. It isn't. Don't be that guy.

[Pendulum]

Bubu: Efts can be fun, better to take time and pull them clean because a single link usually means most if not all efts are gonna come. For cockatrice / mandys we always camped to the south split between them and pulled from whatever side was clean. Cockatrice are easily the 2nd easiest group to pull clean behind the crabs.

Haha, last time I was in bubu we stood around for nearly 10 min waiting for cockatrice to move to a favourable position and eventually decided to go for it. We linked every cockatrice in the zone apart from about 5

Bubu is extremely easy. Valk and qufim are slightly harder but still very winnable provided you have melee who don't fulltime domaru "for the look" or a drk who says 'lulz i used perfect dodge in campaign 15 min before we entered' whilst Antaeus is being pulled.

[FailureMidgard]

a drk who says 'lulz i used perfect dodge in campaign 15 min before we entered' whilst Antaeus is being pulled.

I think if a drk did that, said drk probably didn't have any clue what his 2hr even did, didn't have a zerg weapon or gear set for it, and probably did no less damage than when he did have his 2hr up.

[RyanWh]

not abt numbers.

skills, right jobs, knowing the areas, bosses & clean pull..

[Eldelphia]

Qufim: Don't pull diremites, it may seem like a good idea. It isn't. Don't be that guy.

Or Uragnites... in Bubu. We did some, just... don't.

[Drex]

Urganites are pretty easy with Esuna now, they just take time. BLMs help a lot too. We do them between crawler and quadav pulls since those aren't very mp intensive at all.

[Teorem]

When we have enough people (roughly 24) and the flexibility for us to make a BLM party (BLM x4, SCH/RDM, COR), I will often take a THF/WHM and the party of BLMs to go kill Uragnites for the entire run while the primary alliance clears the normal Nightmare groups.

Once you understand how to pull Uragnites without massively linking them, they're really not that bad with a single party of BLMs:

1) Make a BLM order
2) When the target Uragnite comes out of its shell, nuke it (usually series IV)
3) The Uragnite will retreat for a few seconds (time varies) while it regenerates HP
4) BLM Sleeps the Uragnite while it's in its shell and next BLM prepares to nuke it
5) The Uragnite will come out of its shell, even while asleep
6) Repeat 2-5 until dead

You can speed up the process significantly by:

- making sure the BLMs are constantly using Aspir and Drain
- beginning the nuke while the Uragnite is still in its shell, so that it lands shortly after it pops back out
- stacking DoTs (Burn/Shock/Choke/Poison II/Bio II/Cryohelix), but your BLMs have to be good with using Bind AND need to keep their distance because then the Uragnite is unsleepable
- keeping appropriate weather effects on the BLMs (and having the BLMs bring their obis)

The SCH and the COR are there for crowd-control, and with Alacrity Gravity, Manifestation Bind/Aspir, and Light Shot, really shouldn't have any problems unless you pull more than three at once.

Even with Esuna, I still don't think I'd bother bringing melee to them because of the damage resistance while they're in their shell, which is practically all the time with melee constantly beating on them.

Diremites in Qufim really aren't that bad as long as you have a reliable source of Stun (eg., BLUs), stress that support don't underestimate their distance (Spinning Top has a larger than normal range), and have melee that rely on shadows keeping them up as much as possible. Other than that, they have weak defense and aren't hard to kill.

Just don't link them all at once.