ISREAL GUILTY OF GAZA WAR CRIMES?

[ZarakiKujata]

I make comments like that precisely because I'm tired of the slogan being repeated. I'm as harsh on any Christians I encounter who feed me that shit and I'm the pariah in my Jewish family for merely suggesting the Palestinians have as much if not more right to that land than Zionist Jews. Muslims may feel on trial simply because most of the world has ignorantly put them on trial, dont think its fair to lump in critics of organized religion in general with those who seek only to put Islam on trial.

[Elvis]

I didn't mean to imply you're an Islamophobe, rather that you're being facetious when you ask him that question. (Which I think, you just confirmed.) Firas can't defend that statement - not so much because it's Islam, but because the statement itself is ridiculous.

And I agree with you on the phrase being tired. I think it's a defense mechanism at this point.

(I apologize for the misunderstanding.)

[Faris]

Islam is derived from the word peace. you gona teach us arabic now?

the practice? yes it is a religion of tolerance and peace, doesnt mean its a defenseless religion my friend. someone here mentioned Saladin (Salah Uddin) perfect example of Islam's peace and tolerance....yes he fought, but after lived a peaceful life with the jews/christians/muslims.
again elvis, you gave an example of christianity/bible being brutal, then you relate it too Islam..thats, uuh, you get the picture i think. I think you still have a false understanding of Islam.


sorry if i dont sound articulate in a game forum, trying to debate with people who blindly accuse my belief of absurd crimes and tyranny (As seen on TV!). I really dont think anyone here deserves an articulate reply, my friend.

[Mizango]

I'd simply offer everyone a final solution.

[Elvis]

Islam is derived from the word peace. you gona teach us arabic now?

the practice? yes it is a religion of tolerance and peace, doesnt mean its a defenseless religion my friend. someone here mentioned Saladin (Salah Uddin) perfect example of Islam's peace and tolerance....yes he fought, but after lived a peaceful life with the jews/christians/muslims.
again elvis, you gave an example of christianity/bible being brutal, then you relate it too Islam..thats, uuh, you get the picture i think. I think you still have a false understanding of Islam.


sorry if i dont sound articulate in a game forum, trying to debate with people who blindly accuse my belief of absurd crimes and tyranny (As seen on TV!). I really dont think anyone here deserves an articulate reply, my friend.

Not trying to insult you or imply you *have* to be articulate on a game forum.

I'm just comparing. I've seen people often refer to you casually as what amounts to the 'resident Islam-person'. And I'm just trying to imply that Islam is bigger than any one person and that there are other Muslims here like Tyr who people could debate with sincerely (you can be debated w/ sincerely too).

And as to the 'religion of peace' thing. I think there can be 'the religion' (Islam) and then the 'philosophy' of the religion. Meaning, you can draw from principles of Islam, and it can form your own conception of how to live your life. This however, does not imply that the religion (the base) has all the answers. And thus, you will end up picking and choosing.

The thrust of the teachings may inspire you to say it's a 'religion of peace'. If that's the standard, (meaning, we do not get picky and we focus on the gist of the religion) - then I think we could say similar nice things about Judaism and Christianity.

I've heard a lot of Jewish perspectives about Israel-Palestine and one pro-Palestinian activist in particular, Anna Baltzer, has often said that Judaism =/= Zionism (I agree.) but also added that 'Judaism is about social justice'.

And why not? I don't see a point in badgering someone about the statement. I don't believe it's true, but if they want to believe that - I think it's a positive thing. It's surely better than thinking 'X religion is about conquering the world, muahaha.'

I have alluded to this in threads about Islam. That culture (among other variables) plays a big role in our construct of religion. And I think a secular Jew like Baltzer can come to the conclusion that 'Judaism is about 'social justice' while an Orthodox Jew (Chabad) like Rabbi Manis Friedmann will say:

I don’t believe in western morality, i.e. don’t kill civilians or children, don’t destroy holy sites, don’t fight during holiday seasons, don’t bomb cemeteries, don’t shoot until they shoot first because it is immoral.

The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle).

The first Israeli prime minister who declares that he will follow the Old Testament will finally bring peace to the Middle East. First, the Arabs will stop using children as shields. Second, they will stop taking hostages knowing that we will not be intimidated. Third, with their holy sites destroyed, they will stop believing that G-d is on their side. Result: no civilian casualties, no children in the line of fire, no false sense of righteousness, in fact, no war.

Zero tolerance for stone throwing, for rockets, for kidnapping will mean that the state has achieved sovereignty. Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations who suffer defeat because of a disastrous morality of human invention.

May/June 2009- Ask the Rabbis - Moment Magazine

There are tons of differences between Baltzer and this Rabbi. Who represents Judaism? Couldn't we use the same kind of interrogation tactics that people use against Muslims, but instead on Jews? How would that be perceived? I mean, just look at how Arabs and Muslims are portrayed in American film. No one in their right mind would ever try to do the same thing to Jews in our contemporary social and political climate.

I think we're simply dealing with different constructs of X and Y identities. I actually don't care enough to go further, I'll just say it doesn't bother me so long as it's positive. Yes, that makes me a hypocrite I think.

I recall Plow and Neo going back and forth over this point of contention.

Plow referenced something good a religious person (maybe Christians, who were implied to be conservative) did w/ young moms (helping them adjust to their new responsibilities, etc.), and Neo said it didn't matter because they didn't need religion to help the young moms. But Plow was just saying that religion can inspire people to do good. So we may agree overall (the resident Athiests surely) that you don't need religion these days to teach you right from wrong. We can agree that religion may be an obsolete institution.

But how do we reconcile the fact that there are people out there who were inspired by it? And not something else?

[alt]

Israel pushing out the Palestinians would be a better example of ethnic cleansing than colonization. Israel is pushing a people out of its own territory. Colonization refers to foreign matters, where the Palestinians currently live within Israel's borders. Or did at least...

edit*

Ok I concede that Israeli policies may be called colonialism with at least some merit. Although I have heard of their policies referred to as ethnic cleansing many times, colonialism term is new to me. I just read a few articles on the subject and it seems to be mostly a matter of semantics and how you view the current situation. I would refer to it as ethnic cleansing personally. Usually colonization doesnt involve destroying or driving away natives, but rather controlling them.

[Kuya]

This a really dumb question considering the years of violence in that region, but why don't those fuckers in the Gaza region just share this precious lump of land? The idea seems absurd but it just might work?

What is this shit?

[Elvis]

IDF soldier arrested after caught on tape beating Palestinian

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqy7uyVKYMA

According to the complaint, on the night of September 16, IDF forces raided the home of a resident of Bil'in. The woman who owns the house asked Hatib, who is the head of Bil'in's committee against the separation fence, to come to the house. When Hatib asked to speak to the officer in charge, the soldiers beat him severely. He was hospitalized overnight at the hospital in Ramallah.

The complaint states that one of the soldiers, whom the residents call "Captain Fuad" threatened Hatib that if protests in Bil'in did not stop, he "would end up like Bassem," an apparent reference to Bassem Abu Rahmeh, a Bil'in resident who was shot and killed by IDF fire on April 17 during protests against the fence.

Village residents say the IDF conducts nighttime raids up to four times a week, sometimes using percussion grenades and tear gas and sometimes also entering homes, which has led to Israeli activists staying overnight in village homes.

[guartz]

What is this shit?

American education?

[Akucaen]

I wish our leaders would stop being pussies, unite and open the door for Jihad.

I swear we'll free palestine in 1 day.

Let's just glass the whole fucking country from border to border. That way none of you can have it and you can stop bitching.

[sarcasm, for the oblivious and retarded]

[kuronosan]

American education?

I think Kuya means "why the fuck should the Palestinians share the Gaza strip with the Israelis when the Israelis should just GTFO".

[ZarakiKujata]

I'd simply offer everyone a final solution.

What a wise solution. Perhaps you could enlighten them into peace by explaining your struggles?

[Faris]

since you necro that bitch.

just a fun fact for da homiez:

one of the most prominent Islamic scholars of the hadith gave out thousands of fatwas.
Shaikh Muhammad Nasir-ud-deen Al-Albaani (avatar picture)
Muhammad Nasiruddin al-Albani - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gave some sort of a fatwa or an advise sort to say (im still researching on the matter; because its very controversial)
for the palestinians to migrate if they can from palestine.

[Akucaen]

I preface my post by saying I know why: It's the bigots that cause this to really happen.

One thing I never really understood though is why both groups can't step back and go, "Oh shit. These are areas that are key to both of our religions that draw from the same roots. Instead of squabbling and killing each other, we should work together to preserve this bit of our precious history." I mean, like I said, I know exactly why it doesn't happen - too many bigots in the right positions crying and screaming while people listen with deaf ears to the world. It would make the most sense for the groups to actually work together, but no. They'd rather cry like children and try to take each others toys.

My earlier post was 100% sarcasm, but I keep having this tingling thought in the back of my head that if the entire region somehow didn't exist anymore, a LOT of tension between the West and Middle East would go away. (Especially since we're so fucking gung-ho to defend Israel, which I really don't understand all that much aside from political ties from the right people in the right spots.)

Edit - Holy shit I didn't even notice the necrobump. I'd completely forgotten about this thread.

[Elvis]

The real tragedy is why my laptop can't play Aion in Windowed Fullscreen.

[Akucaen]

No the real tragedy is why I can't drive a 7mpg SUV that burns crude oil, diamonds, and children's dreams as fuel anymore.

[Khajit]

It's not a religious conflict at all...
It's a conflict based upon the arabs being pissed off at Israel for essentially being formed on genocide, discrimination, etc that just so happens to commit acts of terrorism against the rest of the middle east while claiming the arabs are mean, scary and hate them because of their religion to the point that a large portion of the world actually believes it now.

[tyven]

these barbaric cultures put too much stock in a location

[Khajit]

True true. If someplace like the Usa had a place bombed or attacked with thousands dead or taken over by a random faction we'd never start a war over that.

[Akucaen]

Only if a more powerful country had been in control of us since 1900 until about 1948, basically ignoring a handful of bullets in their own mandate, not to mention an enormous influx of foreigners for the last couple of decades.

Yeah, totally the same thing.