Uhm wth wikia?

[Norellicus]

On the subject of "Do we need to enforce citing sources?"

I think it's a matter of streamlining the bureaucracy. I'm fairly certain it's common wisdom that citing sources isn't necessarily required for information to be upheld as true or false, but rather if said information is challenged a cited source should be provided for due process. As such wikipedia enforces citations to cut down on these sorts of challenges to eliminate clutter from talk pages etc.

The problem with ffxi wiki then, is that too often their administrators are/were (more were than are, I haven't seen any particularly hotly debated pages of late to make a fair present-day assessment) inclined to ignore this doctrine in favor of whoever they inherently agreed with (or at the very least, whoever sounded less confrontational in a sticky issue). Picture proof wasn't good enough to even warrant a verification tag in some cases, but simple anecdotes could be passed as fact until enough contrary opinions were voiced.

I don't really know how anyone could say that's a good way of going about data integrity for a project of this size and scope.

Again, I don't know if this still goes on or is an issue, Chrisjander and the others may have gotten better about retaining neutrality and simply saying "ok, verif tag until we can get to the bottom of this" or such. But it explains a lot in terms of why people generally have a bad taste in their mouths about the site...how can you trust information that isn't inherently behing upheld to a certain level of demonstrable integrity? (This question DOES apply to bgwiki or any source of information like it too, by the way)

[willriker]

I dont want a pony

[Seraph]

I dont want a pony

You, and only you, will get a pony and you will like it dammit!

[ringthree]

On the subject of "Do we need to enforce citing sources?"

I think it's a matter of streamlining the bureaucracy. I'm fairly certain it's common wisdom that citing sources isn't necessarily required for information to be upheld as true or false, but rather if said information is challenged a cited source should be provided for due process. As such wikipedia enforces citations to cut down on these sorts of challenges to eliminate clutter from talk pages etc.

The problem with ffxi wiki then, is that too often their administrators are/were (more were than are, I haven't seen any particularly hotly debated pages of late to make a fair present-day assessment) inclined to ignore this doctrine in favor of whoever they inherently agreed with (or at the very least, whoever sounded less confrontational in a sticky issue). Picture proof wasn't good enough to even warrant a verification tag in some cases, but simple anecdotes could be passed as fact until enough contrary opinions were voiced.

I don't really know how anyone could say that's a good way of going about data integrity for a project of this size and scope.

Again, I don't know if this still goes on or is an issue, Chrisjander and the others may have gotten better about retaining neutrality and simply saying "ok, verif tag until we can get to the bottom of this" or such. But it explains a lot in terms of why people generally have a bad taste in their mouths about the site...how can you trust information that isn't inherently behing upheld to a certain level of demonstrable integrity? (This question DOES apply to bgwiki or any source of information like it too, by the way)

I think there is a problem with being myopic about some of these issues. People have always focused on the must ridiculous examples, but don't look at the overall quality of work. It's the same thing that other forums say about BG. There is a huge amount of good work here, but to other people they just write BG off as a drama-fest.

While the debate about paralyzing WS's is a good example of how the FFXIwiki failed, it is also good example of how some people can just lose their shit instead of acting in a mature way. If the tone had been different the issue would have likely been resolved faster and with less debate. When some one is obviously wrong, it is much easier to disprove what they are saying, but the "normal" reaction is for people to go ape-shit when they see the misinformed spreading information. Don't get me wrong, I can do the same thing, so I am not innocent. But it is something we should all avoid.

[Sonomaa]

if I could guarantee we could come up with 5-6 grand a year to pay for the server with donations, I would gladly cut all the ads entirely, BG is not for profit, only for knowledge, lulz, and boobies.

For an example, in the last 60 days, weve had one donation of 20bux to change someones title. I found 22 dollars in the parking lot of the movie theater when I went to see inglorious bastards, so far the parking lot is winning in actual donations.

[ringthree]

You, and only you, will get a pony and you will like it dammit!

I am going to stab Will's pony.

And Will I didn't get any e-mails from you unless you sent it through my blog.

[ringthree]

if I could guarantee we could come up with 5-6 grand a year to pay for the server with donations, I would gladly cut all the ads entirely, BG is not for profit, only for knowledge, lulz, and boobies.

For an example, in the last 60 days, weve had one donation of 20bux to change someones title. I found 22 dollars in the parking lot of the movie theater when I went to see inglorious bastards, so far the parking lot is winning in actual donations.

I found $10 on the ground as a kid while I was walking up to the baseball card shop. It was one of the greatest days in my life.

[Spider-Dan]

if I could guarantee we could come up with 5-6 grand a year to pay for the server with donations, I would gladly cut all the ads entirely, BG is not for profit, only for knowledge, lulz, and boobies.

No sane person begrudges BG for putting up unobtrusive ads. The bills aren't going to pay themselves.

My point (in mentioning BG's ads) is that just because one doesn't want to go several thousand dollars in the red Supporting The Community, it doesn't automatically make you a slave to page impressions. That's it.

[Volkai]

It's the same thing that other forums say about BG. There is a huge amount of good work here, but to other people they just write BG off as a drama-fest.

The reason BG is written off as a drama-fest probably has to do with the links that get spread around.

I don't generally visit the BG forums. Or any forums outside of my LS's, really. When I do, I've usually been linked.

These are the topics that have brought me to BG in the past-
Elmer's huge translation of some dev interview (I now get these from his JPButton site)
Compromised accounts
November duping patch
Jan 22nd LM-17
3-D security on credit cards
NASA and FFXI-App shut down

So from what I've seen... yeah, BG Forums = at least 80% (Drama + cheaters)

[Viq]

The reason BG is written off as a drama-fest probably has to do with the links that get spread around.

I don't generally visit the BG forums. Or any forums outside of my LS's, really. When I do, I've usually been linked.

These are the topics that have brought me to BG in the past-
Elmer's huge translation of some dev interview (I now get these from his JPButton site)
Compromised accounts
November duping patch
Jan 22nd LM-17
3-D security on credit cards
NASA and FFXI-App shut down

So from what I've seen... yeah, BG Forums = at least 80% (Drama + cheaters)

This is the worst logic I've ever seen. Just because you only look at the drama threads doesn't mean the game mechanics threads don't exist. It's like saying I basically only watch Quentin Tarantino movies, therefore 80% of all movies are made by Quentin Tarantino.

[Ragns]

So from what I've seen... yeah, BG Forums = at least 80% (Drama + cheaters)

Hey you forgot the tits and ass!

We didn't get our own servers outside the US to be prude whiners.

[Corrderio]

Tits and ass where?

YOU LIE!

[Yojimmbo.Asura]

How would I go about deleting a pic uploaded by accident to BGwiki? I uploaded Manticore-X instead if Wivre-X by accident and can't find a way to fix it -_-

[Yugl]

Use this section for BG-Wiki stuff: http://www.bluegartr.com/forums/78-BG-Wiki-Discussion

If you uploaded an image and you wish to fix the image, use the title Wivre-Xv2 since cache will prevent duplicate uploads from loading correctly.