Uhm wth wikia?

[tonystigma]

Izzy. That quote is from Feba, the allakhazam superstar. Are you surprised?

Brings me back to the one time I enjoyed reading Alla... the thread discussing the site being sold to IGE.

[dejet]

As for wiki taking all of the info from other spots, that is the point, duh?

Anyways If you can prove that it came from this forum or that forum. You can force wiki to take it down can you not? Or at the least cite that.

Am I wrong in this matter?

[Sonomaa]

As for wiki taking all of the info from other spots, that is the point, duh?

Anyways If you can prove that it came from this forum or that forum. You can force wiki to take it down can you not? Or at the least cite that.

Am I wrong in this matter?

requesting a cite for information taken isnt hard.

and people should always have the option to request their own information not be posted.

----

If I have to pick out the ONE major reason that bgwiki didnt pick up as much as we would like is the DOITFAGGOT!!!.jpg incidents.

To go into background, after bgwiki was made, we had signs ups open like any other place had, people could login, start editing, yay fun. This worked out pretty well at the start, though we had a lot of people who were doing some direct copypasta from otherwiki, stuff we IMMEDIATELY removed. Our entire thought process was we could have taken all the shit, but we werent going to. However there was a jackass who abused the privledge we were leveraging for the rest of the community and went in, creating page after page after page after page that just contained the image DOITFAGGOT.jpg over and over. He was replacing images with it, he was editing it into all pages, creating malicious pages that could only be removed via direct database fuckery (not the normal select page delete option).

These attacks caused us to have to make a system where shit was being manually authorized for accounts, since it was a human doing it, the captcha was being bypassed. Login, turn on wikifaggotrybot, sit back and enjoy the gay. So, people would sign up, and we would auth their accounts, but we werent supermen, so sometimes it took longer than we wanted. And for most people, the thought to edit something into a wiki is a quick and fleeting moment. Once you get past the quick and fleeting moment, having to wait a few hours to do it, not exactly the happy moment.

So with a little (a lotttttt) of vandalism, our little project got scuttled. And yes, I did get an IP of the person who did it, and link it to a forum account.

[aduidarnenye]

The name of the website where I find information does not concern me, as long as I can find the information there. I can't find information on the BG wiki but I can on FFXIclopedia therefore I use the latter. I don't like one site more than the other nor have any loyalistic feelings towards one or other either.

Honestly, I didn't care about the whole drama surrounding FFXIclopedia when it happened. I also, however, didn't donate money because I believe anything asking for donations online is probably a scam at some level. Lesson learnt and I am sure people will be more cautious in donating to future projects.

It would be extremely difficult to update BG wiki to a point where it is comparable to FFXIclopedia without something close to a direct copy/paste due to the nature of the game. Just because someone else is writing the information does not mean the information changes.

Most of the game knowledge, such as quests or crafting recipes, are rote knowledge. There's no point in not doing a copy/paste, except for high moral grounds. Without a straight cut/paste I doubt very much the information on BG wiki would be as usable as the other one. I also don't think anyone would particulary care if BG went out and did this.

Really, at the end of the day, all the information actually belongs to Square Enix and there's absolutely no point in arguing over any of it. As others have stated, when FF11 is off-line (whenever that may be) no one will remember or care at all.

[Mojo]

Not supporting corrupt admins with shady business practices? Not condoning the embezzlement of people's good faith donations?

It was not an "understandable" course of action, and there's a reason people were up in arms about it.

Those statements revolve very heavily around perspective. The wiki admins certainly weren't perfect, but they invested countless hours into creating and maintaining a resource that was extremely useful to the FFXI community. That's lightyears more than most people can say that they ever did.

Corruption and embezzlement are strong accusations although if you review the information presented by all parties it looks more like a decision made out of reason than a decision for the sake of stealing donations. The money was accounted for, the mousepad and shirt price argument is just grasping for straws.

I know some of the emails Taj dug up might seem disturbing, but considering how quickly a legion of BG lemmings assembled themselves and attacked before asking any questions, I can understand a very cryptic and apathetic response.

Either way, Kenji summed up the way I feel about it fairly well. If you're really that hellbent on the issue, have your kids chisel it onto your tombstone or something but don't shit up a thread every time you get the chance with your "otherwiki" QQing.

Also, I've yet to see one reasonable suggestion from anyone who complained about the wikia transition keep the wiki going as it was.

[QuePsiXI]

I see 4 pages of discussion about how this wiki isn't up to speed, I don't see this wikia brought up to speed. That is why I use the other one. There's a bunch of people who supposedly cared back then, and supposedly do care now, but none of them are actually making a viable alternative. And it's not like this forum or this community isn't active, look at all the stupid threads that get bumped and bumped all day, but the informational one doesn't get hardly any attention.

Make moar excuses.

[Spira]

I say hate the sinner, not the wiki.

otherwiki has always been the better wiki in terms of information because it started off way earlier and already had a much stronger contributing userbase. It got to the point when people were so zealous about contributing that they'd add items that they knew were going to come out but hadn't been implemented.. which is a good thing honestly, because any good intended information is welcome.

There are always mistakes. It happens with all wikis, but anyone who has the ability to view it also has the power to edit and change it accordingly. Its not like bam, site A stuff is inaccurate so I must go somewhere else. Fine tuning is something that is required.

I'd say BGwiki failed because it just didn't take off and other than the situation sono mentioned above, there was just too much work to do to play catch up, then and now. It's irritating as a wiki user to want to continue your wiki read only to find that there are "holes" in the wiki, that something thats labeled as a link turns out nothing and you feel cockblocked. And because an existing one is already there, its just so much easier to use it instead.

I use otherwiki because it flat out has more information - useful, redundant, trivial, background history, links to real life lore, links to former FF lore.. its stuff like that that make a wiki refreshingly interesting to read and cater to all sorts of players. Its something their wiki benefited from since they were first, and managed to draw in people who like stuff like that too. Unfortunately I saw none of that on BGwiki, or maybe it was just too bare to even have stuff like that take off.

I'm still a sandbox wiki editor. I'm really bad with code, but I'm trying to pick up some skills for it lol. My target to edit isnt FFXI wikia tho, but the general FF wikia, which lacks information from FFXI.. lol

[ringthree]

If you guys don't think our wiki has a lot of info, go help and edit it.

Already did, thanks.

[ringthree]

The problem is the the VAST OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of people bitching about ffxiclopedia's donation drive's proceeds were also people who had not contributed a f*cking dime to said fund. And this is without getting into the whole issue of screaming bloody murder over the evil actions of ffxiclopedia's staff... which was uncovered by someone else hacking their e-mail accounts. Subsequently, it was no surprise to anyone that the overwhelming hero worship for Taj after this debacle predictably led to Taj hacking multiple other FFXI accounts and bragging about it.


Loading nothing is pretty fast.

I remember saying something like this... when it was actually happening. LOL

[ringthree]

Yeah, it's hard to steal info from people's blogs and posts and cut and paste 'em into their pages without attributing them.



Think it was more about the "Oh, just tell them anything you need to, I will give you whatever funds you need to make it look plausible" type statement from the wikia guy that was more disturbing.

Wiki info is taken from everywhere. I put together the Salvage page for the BG wiki, am I an intellectual thief because I learned about Salvage from the FFXI wiki, blogs, here and my own experience?

[Corrderio]

I'm going to have to agree with what people said. Let Wikia be an information site and BG wiki discuss strategies on HNMs/events/etc.

[Gergall]

Does anyone have any really funny "this thread is derailed" pics? I have one showing a massive train accident but I have already used it on BG before.

[The Stig]

Does anyone have any really funny "this thread is derailed" pics? I have one showing a massive train accident but I have already used it on BG before.

Is that the one where some guy at the ends attempts to stuff his guts back inside of him? With a very horrified face.

It starts off all happy at first, and some guy decided to break one of the rails. When the train hits that bit of the rail, it cartwheeled and explodes, basically.

[QuePsiXI]

This thread wasn't derailed anymore than normal. It started off as OP noticing malware on the other wiki, then someone said this is why we should use BG wiki, then someone described why BG wiki fails. Not sure what Pages 2 and 3 are about.

Edit @below: Ahh okay, my bad on that part.

[Gergall]

It's not malware. Somewhere in this thread someone already explained what it actually was.

TheStig: No that sounds horrible ; ;

[ringthree]

I think The Stig will appreciate this sentiment, but in the end the BGwiki was "ambitious but rubbish", while very well intentioned it overreached and couldn't keep up with the established base of knowledge already at the FFXIwiki.

That is no fault of the people that made the BGwiki, but most of the time things that are built up as an alternative out of (false) rage usually burn out quickly. You have to have some kind of grassroots interest for it to work. This site is a great example of that. While the forums filled a gaping hole in the FFXI community, the BG wiki just hopes to replicate something that already works.

The suggestions about turning the BG wiki into a strategy wiki is a very good one, and it does fill a hole that is missing in the information for FFXI. Even if we just created wiki pages based on the mass of information in the RQT and the WBT the BGwiki would flourish. It would have to be regulated because a lot of those discussions turn into a preference debate (usually because Pchan comes in and calls anyone that doesn't agree with them an idiot) but there is more information in those two thread that has been forgotten or missed than on the entirety of the FFXIwiki.

[Jesifromgaruda]

I always thought the problem with the BG wiki was that no one knows it exists.

Hell, barely anyone I know knows the BG forums even exist. When I mentioned to my LS "oh I read this on BG" etc, they would be like "wth is that?". Not a single person I have run into on FFXI knew what BG was, I had to explain it to every one of them. These are people who know what the wiki is, alla, somepage, KI, etc.

Even after I found the BG forums, it took me a long time to realize BG wiki even existed. It was only after I saw people mention wiki as "other wiki" over and over that I finally put two and two together and realized it existed.

I have tried BG wiki before, and like everyone in here, I found it completely lacking in information and found it kind of unusable from my standpoint.

But I love the idea of making it really different from FFXI wiki in that it would talk more about strats and stuff like that instead of just raw information like wiki does. I mean, there are strats on wiki but it's usually like "can be duoed by RDM and BLM" with no other information.

I believe they would have to remake BG wiki in such a way so that the strats and the layout are not like wiki and make it more unique in a way that can't be copied onto wiki. I don't really know what I mean here, but yeah.

Oh, and about the money thing, I never heard of that before I read this thread. I think many people don't know or just don't care.

[Shuvo]

zzz the whole drama was BS. People kept going on about Gainaman 'stealing' the donations when he clearly returned it all in that raffle. If he kept the donations _and_ moved to wikia I'd have been pissed too, but he returned it. So why the drama?

Honestly I don't think it was so much about being upset over the dodgy wordings in his email (I'm sure if I could go through the private messages of anyone here I'd find something equally dodgy), as it was just a human desire to join a lynch mob w/ fake outrage. I'm sure some psychologist out there has written/talked about it >_>

[Julian]

Anyone remember that one topic with all the people who volunteered and said they would work and moderate bgwiki, but then they didn't?

Also:

There are always mistakes. It happens with all wikis, but anyone who has the ability to view it also has the power to edit and change it accordingly. Its not like bam, site A stuff is inaccurate so I must go somewhere else. Fine tuning is something that is required.

Really? That's why everytime I tried to fix a certain page on the other wiki, some retard admin went and kept changing it back to the wrong info, insisting I was wrong, even after I provided picture evidence.

[Jesifromgaruda]

Really? That's why everytime I tried to fix a certain page on the other wiki, some retard admin went and kept changing it back to the wrong info, insisting I was wrong, even after I provided picture evidence.

Just out of plain old curiosity, what was the page and dispute you were having?