Uhm wth wikia?

[Kirschy]

If I recall, I asked to help /w the Wiki when it first started, but I was denied the ability to add any information. I still posted my testing information here, and helped people who sent me PMs about certian mechanics so they could add the info to BG-Wiki. But it seems kinda unfair that you expect us to contribute after being denied access, no?

[Killkenny]

somewhat arrogant

Understatement of the year, everything septimus said was completely absurd. If doing the front page updates (which on their own would not take a very long time at all unless it really takes you that long to come up with the dialogue) is making you so bitter towards anyone who dares to access ffxiclopedia then maybe you should stop. I am sure people get some enjoyment from reading them but like you said you aren't contracted or conscripted so don't act like the rest of us owe you anything for it.

Wanting to ban people from BG because they update another wiki is the most retarded thing I've seen posted here in a while and that is saying a hell of a lot. As one of the BG "in" crowd your opinion could already have been guessed but such a massive hitler-esque reaction is quite shocking.

At the risk of infringing on the RL card, you need to take a step back and realise this is not confidentail documents on how to perform nuclear fission its a fucking computer game.

[Septimus]

you didn't even address what everyone is saying:
the only reason to update bgwiki is for some sense of moral righteousness that 95% of people don't care about. and yes, you are butthurt if you want to ban people that update otherwiki

So basically, were it up to you, carrying water for a grudge between BG's administration and 'clopedia's administration would be the price of entry to these forums? Would it be equally reasonable for 'clopedia to IP ban anyone with over 50 posts to BG?

Editing 'clopedia is not "spitting on the community." The "community" is not solely comprised of BG and its subsidiaries. Adding information to either wiki is HELPING the FFXI community as a whole.

If you really want to discuss what is and is not "spitting on the community," I'd just like to point out that in the open source world, forking a project over a personal grudge and splintering (what would otherwise be) unified development based on a whim would probably fall pretty squarely in that category.

It's somewhat arrogant to assume that we're all part of some community and BG wiki is our wiki. The number of people who would actually claim that is probably very small. Also, the idea of banning people who contribute to wiki is probably the most petty thing I've read in a long time.

What part of "save your breath because I don't give a shit" is difficult to understand? If the three of you don't like it here, you know where the door is. Sorry that I am not going to coddle you three and try to debate the point, but I don't have time to care about people who decide to be completely useless to my community.

If I recall, I asked to help /w the Wiki when it first started, but I was denied the ability to add any information. I still posted my testing information here, and helped people who sent me PMs about certian mechanics so they could add the info to BG-Wiki. But it seems kinda unfair that you expect us to contribute after being denied access, no?

Was this back when we were first setting up the wiki (before it was public) when it was complete bedlam? I could see a request being lost at that point because there was a lot of confusion at that point.

But the more important question is did you ask me for access? I would (and will) gleefully give you access to update whatever you feel like. To you and anyone else who sincerely wants to contribute, ask me and I will do everything in my power to help you help the community. Post in the BGWiki forum or PM me, I sometimes don't get to log on every day, but I will help you as soon as I can.

[Killkenny]

What part of "save your breath because I don't give a shit" is difficult to understand? If the three of you don't like it here, you know where the door is. Sorry that I am not going to coddle you three and try to debate the point, but I don't have time to care about people who decide to be completely useless to my community.

So you're going to post some extreme views then stick your fingers in your ears, close your eyes and sing loudly til it all goes away? History has shown this to be fool proof.

[Septimus]

Understatement of the year, everything septimus said was completely absurd. If doing the front page updates (which on their own would not take a very long time at all unless it really takes you that long to come up with the dialogue) is making you so bitter towards anyone who dares to access ffxiclopedia then maybe you should stop. I am sure people get some enjoyment from reading them but like you said you aren't contracted or conscripted so don't act like the rest of us owe you anything for it.

Wanting to ban people from BG because they update another wiki is the most retarded thing I've seen posted here in a while and that is saying a hell of a lot. As one of the BG "in" crowd your opinion could already have been guessed but such a massive hitler-esque reaction is quite shocking.

At the risk of infringing on the RL card, you need to take a step back and realise this is not confidentail documents on how to perform nuclear fission its a fucking computer game.

Oh, you think that this movie just edited itself? That the Moogle video took its own fraps and put itself in proper order? That the Automated Interview Generator came about by suigenesis? Maybe I just traveled to an alternate universe where Tundra Colibri exist? Shit takes time to make, I don't just shit out updates, I put thought and effort into them so that they will be as funny as possible.

And yes, proving Goodwin's Law correct is the best way to point out that I am overreacting.

[Mojo]

Nobody was asking you to argue back and forth, you posted something extreme. People are going to reply to it, that's the entire point of a forum. Expecting people not to reply just cause you said you weren't here to argue is retarded as hell.

[Septimus]

Nobody was asking you to argue back and forth, you posted something extreme. People are going to reply to it, that's the entire point of a forum. Expecting people not to reply just cause you said you weren't here to argue is retarded as hell.

I have the right to have this opinion, you have the right to disagree with it. I have the right to not care that you disagree, you have the right to bitch about it.

Rinse, repeat, welcome to the internet.

[Seraph]

...for very small values of "steal."

If, by "steal," you mean "reprint freely-available research about a game created by a third-party company under a documentation/redistribution license that allows anyone else to copy and/or reprint said research for free," then yes, I guess you could call it "stealing."

If they are making money off of what they are stealing, and they are, they can definitely go out of the way to give credit where it is due. You are trying way too hard to play white knight here.

[Kirschy]

Was this back when we were first setting up the wiki (before it was public) when it was complete bedlam? I could see a request being lost at that point because there was a lot of confusion at that point.

But the more important question is did you ask me for access? I would (and will) gleefully give you access to update whatever you feel like. To you and anyone else who sincerely wants to contribute, ask me and I will do everything in my power to help you help the community. Post in the BGWiki forum or PM me, I sometimes don't get to log on every day, but I will help you as soon as I can.

It was when you guys were first setting up the wiki. Even though I asked, only certian people were given the ability to edit it. So I kinda just gave up and contributed through form posts and helping others who came to me /w questions when making articles.

If I had the time, I'd offer to help /w BG Wiki but I gots tons of stuffs now =/. I can try /w a few articles though~

[ringthree]

Septimus, you have never been much of a bomb thrower. Now isn't a good time to start.

The "community" is everything about this game, not just BG, or it's wiki or anything else.

I do some work on the FFXIwiki when I see problems, I have done a lot of work on the BG wiki too. They are in no way mutually exclusive. I don't care if someone takes the work I did on one and put it on the other.

Would you really want to ban me? I try to do as much as I can for BG because I like it here. Sept, I have a lot of respect for you, but what you said is rubbish, and you are just embarrassing yourself. I would like to think that in some small way I have helped BG keep going. It doesn't help to alienate those that support BG the most.

[Yugl]

I think you should let a least *some* type of information come from the otherwiki. Mostly in mind are:

Quests/Missions: Difficult to remember them, and if you look them up, it's going to be difficult to restate them in your own words. Plus, there's a vast amount of them.

Images: Taking pictures of every items is probably the most annoying part about editing if I had to guess.

"Not so special" items: Lets face it, completeness means getting those lolleatherboots+1 pictures and information up on the page, which is utterly useless, but necessary to complete the page.

That mainly leaves JAs/Real Gear/Spells/EG Events/Mechanics where BG tends to shine.

Edit: Oh man this is just too good to pass up.

Would you really want to ban me?

Say yes just for hilarity!

[ringthree]

It's only false righteousness until they steal your shit.

They can "steal" my shit whenever they want... but more than a little gross.

Honestly, I couldn't care less if they copy and pasted my work from BGwiki to the FFXIwiki.

I said this pages ago, but the reason that the BGwiki isn't as good as the FFXIwiki is because it was created out of a false sense of rage. Those kind of things burn out pretty quick. That's what I mean by a false sense of righteousness.

This is before we go back to glossing over the way the information was revealed, and the amount of support that BG had for the person that revealed it.

[Cadsuane]

Did it have data and strategies from the importer community that was playing this game for over a year prior to the NA release?

The only thing the importers ever contributed to the NA community that came after was at best instructions on how to run shitty LSs into the ground with maximum drama.

[Cadsuane]

Were it up to me, I would ban every person who regularly contributes to otherwiki from this server. I am sure someone will want to respond "Oh you're just butt-hurt" or "that's just sour grapes" or whatever, save your breath because I don't give a shit. I think I have given enough to the BG community to be able to say how I feel in this case.

Nearly every month I spend days writing, editing, and/or coding fun little front-page updates for the forum users. I'm not paid to do this, I don't get anything from the linkshell to do it, I do it because it adds to the personality of the site and it (supposedly) entertains you, our users. (Though you wouldn't know half of the time by the responses.) This time that I spend writing sarcastic and sometimes caustic (oh next update, what fun you shall be) updates for you is time that I could spend instead adding content to BGWiki. (Hey, look! A link.) There is a lot of take from the community, I am here to ask for a little give.

You like those little front page updates that we do? Then show your appreciation by going and editing a few wiki pages for me. We have about a half-dozen highly motivated editors, if we had 20 motivated editors people wouldn't be able complain that BGWiki lacks content for very long. If you want to help and don't know where to start, ask me- I can provide you with lists of things that you can do. If you want to help but don't know anything about wiki code, ask us- we have a forum dedicated to asking questions from people who didn't know wiki code when they started editing either. If you think that BGWiki would be better off being a strategy wiki, contribute- I think it would be great and would love the help. Am I saying that people owe us for these forums? No. What I am saying is that BGWiki isn't the wiki of the OrderoftheBlueGartr linkshell, it is the wiki of our community. It is about time to take some pride in your community. And if you want to spit on this community, you know where the door is.

I would think anyone silly enough to contribute significantly to a wiki project in danger of becoming popular and profitable needs their fucking head checked, whether its ffxiclopedia or bgwiki. Unless you're a good enough dicksuck to get into the cabal, I mean. Kinda reminds me of HNM shells!

Personally I think a good community is one that withstands criticism as opposed to one that villifies it. Also one that isn't self-aggrandizing or doesn't demand that its members be dutiful sycophants because of some admittedly clever and entertaining monthly updates. But hay, maybe I'm just crazy.

[Bockage]

Quests/Missions: Difficult to remember them, and if you look them up, it's going to be difficult to restate them in your own words. Plus, there's a vast amount of them.

It's really not that hard at all. Almost all game quests have been added now in our own original words. None of them were copy/pasted off allah like otherwiki loves to do and not credit them for it. So before you decide to make fun of BGWiki again, you might want to visit the site and do your research before you decide to look like an idiot.

Images: Taking pictures of every items is probably the most annoying part about editing if I had to guess.

This is almost done already.

That mainly leaves JAs/Real Gear/Spells/EG Events/Mechanics where BG tends to shine.

This is pretty much done as well. It's just a shame no one bothered to look at them.

[Spider-Dan]

If they are making money off of what they are stealing, and they are, they can definitely go out of the way to give credit where it is due.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Long story short: if you are so inclined, you can print out every single page of FFXIclopedia and sell it for eleventy thousand dollars, and you do not have to give anyone (including FFXIclopedia) a dime of money or a word of credit. Ever hear of something called Linux? Yeah, it works pretty much the same way.

If you are somehow dissatisfied with this arrangement, you should stop posting your Top Secret Valuable FFXI Information to the open internet, and continue to stockpile it in your Knowledge Vault.

If you seriously believe that typing up a post on an internet forum makes you The Owner of whatever concept you were discussing, you have a fatally broken view of how copyright works. You have some ownership of the actual words you write (i.e. direct quotations), but not the ideas behind them.

No one patented Rune Chopper zerg.

[Spider-Dan]

The only thing the importers ever contributed to the NA community that came after was at best instructions on how to run shitty LSs into the ground with maximum drama.

Tell me, where did you get your FFXI information from in 2003?

Without importer community, the first 6mos of FFXI was basically Brady Guide or nothing.

[Ksandra]

Tell me, where did you get your FFXI information from in 2003?

Without importer community, the first 6mos of FFXI was basically Brady Guide or nothing.

Mystery Tour!


semi-joking aside, dunno why people are so upset over BGwiki. If you don't like it, don't use it, but it's silly to act like it shouldn't exist at all.

I love burger king, doesn't mean I want Wendy's to go out of business and think it's retarded people go there.

Everyone has their likes, if people have reasons to use the otherwiki, fine. If people have reasons to use BGwiki, fine too. Iono why there is such an issue over it.

Also, there are many things in life that were created because of drama/bad people, but in the end became good. (i.e. I love my vw bug, doesn't make me a nazi). Both can be said of either wiki, and people have the right to choose which to use based on their preferences.

[Demosthenes11]

Mystery Tour!


semi-joking aside, dunno why people are so upset over BGwiki. If you don't like it, don't use it, but it's silly to act like it shouldn't exist at all.

I love burger king, doesn't mean I want Wendy's to go out of business and think it's retarded people go there.

Everyone has their likes, if people have reasons to use the otherwiki, fine. If people have reasons to use BGwiki, fine too. Iono why there is such an issue over it.

Also, there are many things in life that were created because of drama/bad people, but in the end became good. (i.e. I love my vw bug, doesn't make me a nazi). Both can be said of either wiki, and people have the right to choose which to use based on their preferences.

this isn't what people are bitching about. we are bitching about people like septimus and their superiority complex saying anyone that ever uses otherwiki ever is a nazi and bayonets babies. I am literally laughing that people sept wants to ban people over using otherwiki

get a fucking life

[Ksandra]

I take that in stride as Septimus has been like that for forever about banning people (not just wiki-related)...hence why he's not allowed to! Surprised you guys have never noticed this.


[edit] also people were bashing it before septimus came in, so no, it's not just about him.